Pro-Abortion Catholics!

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MichelleTherese

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I’m seeking the right (holy!) way to respond to a pro-abortion Catholic whom I know from daily Mass who keeps trying to bait me into arguments.

I was totally unaware of his pro-abortion stance and was quite happy with my little daily Mass group thinking they were all well…100% Catholic! It was well known by all that I had been visiting pro-life Sisters and yesterday I was wearing a shirt they gave me that said, “You cannot be Catholic and pro-abortion” on the back. Immediately a man I knew, who is my elder, ribbed me with, “So, I see you are back from working at that abortion clinic!” He was being sarcastic about the Sisters of Life and trying to make me sound bad. It thought it was some kind of conferance (or “clinic”) and tried to play with words. To my horror several other Mass-goers stared at me like I was Satan. Then later while we all sat down for our usual after-Mass coffee this same elder kept trying to bait me into an argument and made disturbing comments like, “I’m neither for nor against abortion…” Out of respect for my elders I wouldn’t say anything and kept pretending to be listening to someone else when he’d bait me. Then to more horror everyone at the table started to extol the virtues of KERRY (!!) and ranted and raved about Bush being a “dog” and a “devil” and so forth. I almost fell out of my chair in shock.

Now my peace has been totally wrecked in regard to my daily Mass “group” and I’m totally blown away. How on earth do I respectfully (in regards to the fact that almost everyone there is my elder) and charitably respond to Mr. Pro-Choice?? Do I just sit there and stay quiet or is there some way to defend the Unborn without being a rude uncharitable sinner?

Agggg! This is so disapointing! Here I am at Mass in the mornings worshiping the Lord and …and…half the folks there are pro-choice. What a shock!!
 
This is terrible. I think that you could and maybe should respond with the phrase that you have at the bottom of your post.

Everyone is on a journey. I don’t think that it is wrong to correct someone without going into a fight. This is a tough one.

Personally, I say that I could never in good conscience vote for anyone who would defend the right to kill babies. That usually gets them mad so I have to leave it at that. Everything else is just selfishness.
 
I for one do not know how to respond in this situation. I would, being my human self, beat the living day lights out of someone but God does not want this of course.

But we must remember Matthew 5:11.
 
Sounds like someone looking for attention. Ignore him and eventually he’ll get the point and go pick on someone else. Can you stop him from goading anyone else? I don’t think so, unless you parish priest bars him from attending Mass.
 
My advice is to ask questions, not make statements.

I am utterly convinced that most people who view themselves as “pro-choice” have never really thought about it and have no idea what the “choice” is. You need to make them confront the real issue, not the “choice” rhetoric. It’s worked for me, and I have seen several people convert to the pro-life side (in whole or in part) based upon these low-key questions.

Pray to the Holy Spirit to put the right words into your mouth, look for an appropriate opening, and start to deliver your questions. Don’t interrupt, and don’t talk too much, and let the answer play out. Listen to the answer for clues as to a) where the person “is” in their thought process on the issue, and b) where the person misapprehends the truth. Don’t confront, at least not yet, and maybe not ever.

When you ask questions, use accurate terms. Use “abortion” when describing what’s happening. Use “human being” to describe the child - this will be useful to you later on.

Some sample questions to get the party started:
"Why do you consider yourself “pro-choice”?

“What is the ‘choice’ that’s being made that you are in favor of?”

“Why do you believe that abortion is necessary?”

“What do you think happens during an abortion?”

“Do you believe that an abortion takes the *life * of a human being?”
Always listen to the answers and be prepared to ask follow up questions. For example, most people will answer the first question “It’s her body. A woman has a right to do what she wants with her body.” You should then ask “So what part of the woman’s body is being aborted?”

In answer to number 3, most people will shoot for the fringes. Let them. And then ask them (in nice terms) how they can justify choosing one life over another. But be sure to bring them back to the truth, which is that almost all abortions are done for the sake of convenience.

Your questions should be designed to a) point out the fallacy of the “pro-choice” term and bring the issue back onto solid linguistic ground; b) make them think about the issue in greater detail; and c) leave room for the Holy Spirit to work on their hearts.

You will get nowhere by being confrontational. Force them to open up by forcing them to think. Don’t be afraid to ask the questions.

Keep us apprised of your efforts! 👍
 
Does he realize that it is COLD BLOODED MURDER! To an innocent child in the ‘safest’ place in the world (well, apparently not anymore!)! You hear of when a pregnant woman gets killed in a car crash, the news and obituaries will say that the mother AND her child were killed…and right now there is a man (Peterson I think) who is being tried for DOUBLE HOMICIDE because he killed his wife and their unborn child! (Notice they didn’t call it a fetus or tissue matter, as they do when when done in an ‘abortion’…hmmm, this is sick, and pure EVIL - THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO OTHER WAY TO LOOK AT IT!)

The Pope was right to say that we live in a ‘culture of death.’

May the Lord have mercy on us all.
 
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LabChick:
Sounds like someone looking for attention. Ignore him and eventually he’ll get the point and go pick on someone else. Can you stop him from goading anyone else? I don’t think so, unless you parish priest bars him from attending Mass.
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Jesus did not ignore the money changers in the Temple. Why should this man get a pass. Jesus would confront him. Ignoring evil does not make it better or go away. In a Christian way tell this man in no uncertain terms that he is wrong. Pray for him, but do not ignore him.
 
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Lance:
Jesus did not ignore the money changers in the Temple. Why should this man get a pass. Jesus would confront him. Ignoring evil does not make it better or go away. In a Christian way tell this man in no uncertain terms that he is wrong. Pray for him, but do not ignore him.
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Exactly & Ditto!!

🙂 Lilder

Oh, and :clapping: Barrister…I give you a good rating!
 
I don’t mean to be harsh but it seems to me that these kind of people do not deserve to be called Catholic. They are slapping Jesus in the face and smiling at the same time. But we can try to pray for them at least.
 
The biggest shock is that he seemed so seriously Catholic! Then to find out he’s all pro-choice and worse, can’t stand having a pro-lifer around. He even got angry when a new priest (who filled in for a few weeks) preached against abortion from the pulpit every single day. He said, “He should NOT be saying that kind of stuff at Mass! It is insulting and doesn’t belong in the Mass.” I’ve never heard him talk this way before and I think us pro-lifers are getting under his skin.
(I’ve already picked out a few more In-Ya-Face pro-life shirts to wear to Mass hehehehehe)

Barrister thanks so much for the awsome post!
 
Personally, I would approach the parish priest and explain the necessity for a strong homily, at all masses on a future (not too distant) Sunday, defining the Church’s dogmatic position on this issue. There are no grey areas in this matter. Then, after the individuals in question have heard the truth, ask the previously suggested questions. Then let the Holy Spirit go to work on those individuals. :amen:
 
I bet you this guy has a wife or daughter that had an abortion.(or someone else close to him) What is all of this "elder " stuff?
When people tell me they’re pro choice I now correct them and let them know that they are pro abortion. I don’t care anymore about offending anyone, or talking in the “aunt sally” mode to people about this. We are all going to have this blood on our hands at judgement (to some extreme). Do something, me and my kids march in pro-life events and pray often for an end to this rediculous rampage against the world. Do these things at least, pray pray pray.

peace and love
 
It took a few minutes for me to understand what you meant by “what is all this ‘elder’ stuff”. I often forget I hail from a different culture. An “Elder” is any person that is older then me, usually about ten years and up, that must be shown at all times the utmost respect owed to them for their distingquished age. To talk back, argue, insult, one-up, or cause an Elder to ‘lose face’ is the biggest taboo I can break. (outside of Religious “taboos” which we all call “sins”.) Therefore when I was faced with an ELDER Elder, i.e. a man in his 70’s possibly 80’s, goading me into an argument about abortion I was immediately lost and had no idea how to proceed. #1 most Elders don’t goad. #2 Who the heck am I to so much as say ‘boo’ to my Elder? So…When he spoke I shut up and became very interested in the lint on my pants rather then disrespect my Elder. Yes, he was totally wrong in his views buuuuuut dare I disrespect him? Which is the worse of two evils??? How do I face a man of Age without breaking the rules?

Granted, this man is not Native and therefore probably would not care one bit if I argued or talked back or made him lose face. But I cannot undo 29 years of intense training! Take this example: My mom is 47 years old. She was in the hospital this Christmas with lung cancer and had a collapsed lung. She was in BAD shape. Situated in the other bed next to her was a woman in her 70’s. Mom, sick as a dog and almost an elder herself, was 100% focused on respecting and serving the Elder sharing her room. The old woman wanted for nothing and our entire visits revolved around what was comfortable for her with mom constantly snapping at us, “Be quiet and respect your Elder. She’s an old woman.” (or whatever was transpiring at the moment. “Get her a chair!” “Fetch her water!” “You should be paying attention to her so you know what she needs!”) At which we’d snap too like a bunch of Marines.
This is a bit off topic but I wanted to explain what this “Elder” stuff was all about. 🙂 Maybe it’ll help you understand why I felt that I had run into a brick wall when my Elder started spouting pro-choice views!!! Double-whammy.
 
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MichelleTherese:
I’m seeking the right (holy!) way to respond to a pro-abortion Catholic whom I know from daily Mass who keeps trying to bait me into arguments.Agggg! This is so disapointing! Here I am at Mass in the mornings worshiping the Lord and …and…half the folks there are pro-choice. What a shock!!
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YES. THE NEXT TIME YOU’RE WITH THESE FOLKS, YOU DON’T HAVE TO UTTER A WORD. JUST BRING THESE PHOTOS WITH YOU WHICH YOU WILL PRINT OUT AFTER YOU READ THIS FROM THE WEBSITE: www.priestsforlife.org AND CLICK ON THE '“THIS IS WHAT ABORTION LOOKS LIKE” LINK. There are numerous photos --especially the “Baby Malachai” story and photo. It’s only 2 pages and you can color xerox it so all get a copy. It will tear their hearts out, and hopefully change them forever, or God will.

Good Luck Dear One~~
 
Hi Michelle Therese,

Sparkle took the words right out of my mouth. As soon as I read your post I thought “A picture is worth a thousand words.” I have seen some pictures of abortions and I can’t imagine how anyone can *see *the truth and not be convinced to be prolife. I can’t bear to go to the sight Sparkle mentioned. If this is too difficult for you to do too, you might try to show some of the beautiful color pictures that have been taken of babies at different stages of development, although these are sad too, because I believe they have been taken after miscarriages (I think the book is called The First Nine Months of Life.) There are also incredible sonogram pictures of babies in the womb that are being taken now. We showed a sonogram video from a Right to Life group at my parish that showed a preborn baby delighting in bouncing from wall to wall inside of mom.
 
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MichelleTherese:
I’m seeking the right (holy!) way to respond to a pro-abortion Catholic whom I know from daily Mass who keeps trying to bait me into arguments.
“You cannot be Catholic and pro-abortion”
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first off he is a pro-abortion person who thinks he is Catholic,
keep wearing that shirt.
those people who stared at you like satan are counterfiet christians, it is time to expose them for what they are ( drive out the wicked persons from among you. 1 Cor. 5:13 )
evil flourishes when good people do and say nothing…
be hot or cold but don’t be lukewarm.
the lines in the sand have been drawn, fight the good fight (and it is a Fight)
 
Engage in a study and discussion about what it means to be created in the image of God.

Abortion and same sex marriage are both attacks on the image of God.

Marriage is a reflection of the triune nature of God. The two become one flesh and there is a communion of persons reflective of the communion in the Trinity. Same Sex Marriage denies the validity of this model and says that one sex is irrelevant. Thus, it attacks the Christian conception of a Triune God, which is reflected in the creation of man and woman.

Human beings reflect the image of God. Scripture teaches this throughout. Human life reflects the image of God which is clearly revealed in the incarnation of Christ. Abortion snuffs out a life which is a reflection of the image of God.

Major historical heresies attack the nature of God – either the Trinity or person of Christ. Abortion and Same Sex Marriage continue and accelerate that trend.

See, “The Theology of the Body” by Pope John Paul II.
 
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