Pro-Abortion Catholics!

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Michelle, I agree with the others who said to try pictures with these people. That is the thing that affected me the most, and I am 100% pro-life now, compared to being only mostly pro-life even after I became a Christian.

I know it’s hard but I really do think priestsforlife.org has the most effective photos, and they have authentication from pathologists to back them up. I didn’t think I could stomach it but I got over that and now I think they are an important tool.

If you really can’t stand to see abortion pictures themselves, there are plenty of websites with 3d and 4d ultrasound photos that are just incredible. I can reccomend some to you if you want or just look up Fetal Development ultrasounds and your sure to get plenty of hits.
 
Hey stupid, it’s murder! There is no such thing as a smogasborg Catholic, either you are in communion with the Holy See or a heretic. Fish or cut bait…Pro Murder Catholic is an oxymoron. Please pray for all these souls. Why not wait till after your child is born to murder it? Hey, you could write it off and get paid to murder. When will this insanity stop? IHS Daryl
 
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chrisg93:
PamA,
You are wrong on several counts.
  1. Ratzinger did not say a Catholic could vote his social conscience. Ratzinger said that other factors besides abortion could be considered if there was “proportional” cause. Since abortion is murder the only "proportional " cause would be between two pro-abortion candidates, one of whom is relatively less pro-abortion than the other. That is not the case in this election. At any rate the Pope has said numerous times that a Catholic cannot vote for a pro-abortion candidate, regardless of what Ratzinger says.
  2. You have referenced taxes and the war and assult weapons. None of these issues compare with the direct murder of an innocent child. Abortion is the most horrible, brutal and savage mass murder in the history of the world. Nothing even comes close.
  3. Catholic hospitals performing abortions are like Catholic priests abusing children. They are in mortal sin.
took me a while to find this quote again…Ratzinger sent this letter to Cardinal McCarrick and Bishop Gregory. This is the letter that was LEAKED to the press, not the previous one that you guys are relying on. It’s called Worthiness to Receive Holy Communion, General Principles…article 6 specifically says…
“N.B. A Catholic would be guilty of formal cooperation in evil, and so unworthy to present himself for Holy Communion, if he were to deliberately vote for a candidate precisely because of the candidate’s permissive stand on abortion and/or euthanasia. When a Catholic does NOT share a candidate’s stand in favour of abortion and/or euthanasia, but votes for that candidate for OTHER reasons, it is considered REMOTE material cooperation, which can be permitted in the presence of proportionate reasons.”

Now, I’ve addressed the matter of European Catholic heads of state who are 99% pro choice receiving Holy Communion from the Holy Father himself, even during canonizations ; I’ve referred several times to the fact that the Pope gave Holy Communion to Blair and his wife at the Vatican (she’s Catholic, he’s not…both are unequivocally pro-choice); I’ve asked people on this forum how the Kerry supporter could be denied communion when CATHOLIC Hospitals perform abortions following the Bishops’ very clear direction to do so…but only after the 24th week…so that it can be considered a ***miscarriage !! ***
How can these bishops come down so hard on the voter when ALL of the Church hierarchy knows, and has known about the scandalous, sinful, criminal behaviour of their pedophile clergy. Is the bishop who sheltered the criminal priest by transferring the child rapist from diocese to diocese to wreck the lives of those young children and their families not participating in the sin of the errant priest? No, that Bishop is not punished by Rome…the despicable bishop of Boston is now enjoying la dolce vita as pastor of a gorgeous church in Rome…rather than punishment, he has received a huge reward from the pope himself…

How many of those raped boys will repeat this behavior with other victims of their own choosing because the CHURCH did not protect them?

In the 3rd debate, Bush sidestepped the Roe v. Wade question…according to his base on this forum, he is “speaking in code” so as not to lose the votes of the uncommitted voter…I rather think he is speaking in tongues…all of them forked.

I hope somebody will address the discrepancy I see between what the church and bishops preach, and what it actually does.
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Michelle,
Another tactic to try would be to ask him how many people he knows who have had abortions are happy with their choice. 45 million abortions in the past 30 years, one in four women in the US have had an abortion, one in four!, abortion is the most common medical procedure in the US. Where are all these satisfied customers? If this is simply a medical choice, why don’t women compare notes with each other, you know “I went to Dr. A for my second abortion, he was much better than Dr. B”. The mere thought of it is ridiculous.

Women (and men) who have fallen for the lie of abortion, sooner or later realize what they have really done. They suffer in silence, afraid of the condemnation of the pro life people, and rejected by the pro aborts who claim there is no such thing as post abortion syndrome. Even when they confess to a priest their sin, they often can not accept that forgiveness from Christ or forgive themselves. Sometimes they will find different priests and confess it again and again. Others never confess it, suffering in silence. They will even lie to their doctors about their medical history, risking complications in future pregnancies to protect the lie. Shame and denial are the tools of satan after we have fallen for his lies. This is not the behavior of people who are happy with their “choice”.
Code: 
Those who defend abortion for the sake of the women quickly turn around and abandon her when she shows signs of remorse, or worse, try to talk her out of that remorse.
If abortion is a good choice, where are the women who are happy with that choice? (Pam I would ask you the same question)

In Christ,
amy
 
The Barrister:
My advice is to ask questions, not make statements.

I am utterly convinced that most people who view themselves as “pro-choice” have never really thought about it and have no idea what the “choice” is. You need to make them confront the real issue, not the “choice” rhetoric. It’s worked for me, and I have seen several people convert to the pro-life side (in whole or in part) based upon these low-key questions.

Pray to the Holy Spirit to put the right words into your mouth, look for an appropriate opening, and start to deliver your questions. Don’t interrupt, and don’t talk too much, and let the answer play out. Listen to the answer for clues as to a) where the person “is” in their thought process on the issue, and b) where the person misapprehends the truth. Don’t confront, at least not yet, and maybe not ever.

When you ask questions, use accurate terms. Use “abortion” when describing what’s happening. Use “human being” to describe the child - this will be useful to you later on.

Some sample questions to get the party started:
"Why do you consider yourself “pro-choice”?

“What is the ‘choice’ that’s being made that you are in favor of?”

“Why do you believe that abortion is necessary?”

“What do you think happens during an abortion?”

“Do you believe that an abortion takes the *life * of a human being?”
Always listen to the answers and be prepared to ask follow up questions. For example, most people will answer the first question “It’s her body. A woman has a right to do what she wants with her body.” You should then ask “So what part of the woman’s body is being aborted?”

In answer to number 3, most people will shoot for the fringes. Let them. And then ask them (in nice terms) how they can justify choosing one life over another. But be sure to bring them back to the truth, which is that almost all abortions are done for the sake of convenience.

Your questions should be designed to a) point out the fallacy of the “pro-choice” term and bring the issue back onto solid linguistic ground; b) make them think about the issue in greater detail; and c) leave room for the Holy Spirit to work on their hearts.

You will get nowhere by being confrontational. Force them to open up by forcing them to think. Don’t be afraid to ask the questions.

Keep us apprised of your efforts! 👍
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These ideas are great. I often get into these types of conversations with other “Christian pro-choice” believers.
Sometimes I do it because I want the practice and I like to Debate.
I use all these ideas when I am in these conversations. The thing that gets me is that The woman is the life support system. The baby will not live without its mother. So if it is her choice to take it off life support she should be allowed to make it. HOW DO YOU FIGHT THAT ONE? :banghead:
 
“Pro-Abortion Catholics!!!”

Kinda like leprechauns. They don’t really exist.

Oh, sure, you hear about them all the time. But it’s an oxymoron.

An even better analogy is that it’s like the mixing of matter with anti-matter - both would immediately disappear in a fiery explosion upon contact. Mutually incompatible.

'Cause when a Catholic becomes pro-abortion, the Catholic no longer exists.
 
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Magster:
President Bush’s best opportunity to change the abortion landscape will come when he is (hopefully) re-elected and is able to nominate some new Supreme Court Justices who will render decisions either directly overturning Roe v. Wade or placing barriers to obtaining abortions. It is difficult to counter judge-made law, such as Roe v. Wade with legislation.
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I totally agree with you. As Pam would say
CHECKMATE!
 
The Barrister:
My advice is to ask questions, not make statements.

I am utterly convinced that most people who view themselves as “pro-choice” have never really thought about it and have no idea what the “choice” is. You need to make them confront the real issue, not the “choice” rhetoric. It’s worked for me, and I have seen several people convert to the pro-life side (in whole or in part) based upon these low-key questions.

Pray to the Holy Spirit to put the right words into your mouth, look for an appropriate opening, and start to deliver your questions. Don’t interrupt, and don’t talk too much, and let the answer play out. Listen to the answer for clues as to a) where the person “is” in their thought process on the issue, and b) where the person misapprehends the truth. Don’t confront, at least not yet, and maybe not ever.

When you ask questions, use accurate terms. Use “abortion” when describing what’s happening. Use “human being” to describe the child - this will be useful to you later on.

Some sample questions to get the party started:"Why do you consider yourself “pro-choice”?

“What is the ‘choice’ that’s being made that you are in favor of?”

“Why do you believe that abortion is necessary?”

“What do you think happens during an abortion?”

“Do you believe that an abortion takes the *life *of a human being?”
Always listen to the answers and be prepared to ask follow up questions. For example, most people will answer the first question “It’s her body. A woman has a right to do what she wants with her body.” You should then ask “So what part of the woman’s body is being aborted?”

In answer to number 3, most people will shoot for the fringes. Let them. And then ask them (in nice terms) how they can justify choosing one life over another. But be sure to bring them back to the truth, which is that almost all abortions are done for the sake of convenience.

Your questions should be designed to a) point out the fallacy of the “pro-choice” term and bring the issue back onto solid linguistic ground; b) make them think about the issue in greater detail; and c) leave room for the Holy Spirit to work on their hearts.

You will get nowhere by being confrontational. Force them to open up by forcing them to think. Don’t be afraid to ask the questions.

Keep us apprised of your efforts! 👍
Click to expand...
Those who state they are “Pro-Choice” never finish their sentence and tell us what they are “Pro-Choice” about.

Here is a thread I started to get people to think what the words “Pro-Choice” on its own really means…

Are You “Pro-Choice”?

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=86000
 
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