Pro-choice Catholics

[catharina]

Then why do we have laws to prosecute murderers? I am trying to understand here.

God bless.

Agree.
Law as an expression of public morality should interest everyone -
or should we toss the ten commandments?

Folks who pretend otherwise? Head in the sand?

 

[sidbrown]

Yes, of course - Congressman Drinan. Silly me.

Was he asked/told/required to renounce his pro-abortion views?
I have no idea. He was required to abandon his rhetoric in the political arena.
He did so. Is he in heaven or hell?
I have no idea.
Neither do you.

He publicly advocated the pro-choice position. I don;t see where he ever publicly renounced any of the solidly pro-choice positions that he advocated. Quite the contrary. For example, he spoke out in support of President Bill Clinton’s veto of the Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act in 1996. So Father Drinan even advocated legalisation of partial birth abortion, and remained a priest in good standing in the Roman Catholic Church.

 

[genevievelives]

Then why do we have laws to prosecute murderers? I am trying to understand here.

God bless.

If you’re asking me to explain a Supreme Court decision, I can tell you I’m not equipped to do so. I’m not a politician or a lawyer, I’m just an American citizen.

gen

 

[genevievelives]

Agree.
Law as an expression of public morality should interest everyone -
or should we toss the ten commandments?

Folks who pretend otherwise? Head in the sand?

“Law as public morality”? What is this morality based on? It would really irritate me if I thought the Vatican was calling all the shots in my life and my decision-making. What morality are you referring to? What’s the origin of this morality? Has it changed since we gained freedom from Great Britain? Is the law based on morality an organic, vibrant thing, or is it stagnant and unchanging?

gen

 

[catharina]

He publicly advocated the pro-choice position. I don;t see where he ever publicly renounced any of the solidly pro-choice positions that he advocated. Quite the contrary. For example, he spoke out in support of President Bill Clinton’s veto of the Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act in 1996. So Father Drinan even advocated legalisation of partial birth abortion, and remained a priest in good standing in the Roman Catholic Church.

I don’t know about his “standing.”
I don’t know what went on between his confessor and him.
I don’t know what went on between the Vatican and him.

I do know that he’s dead.

 

[TouchedByHost]

If you’re asking me to explain a Supreme Court decision, I can tell you I’m not equipped to do so. I’m not a politician or a lawyer, I’m just an American citizen.

gen

Tell you what. Scott Peterson from California is on the death row for killing 2 persons at the same time. His wife and his own unborn “fetus”.

As American citizens, we are entitled to know, to understand clearly the laws. As children of God, we are to know His laws, not our own laws. I myself, am trying to understand.

God bless

 

[catharina]

“Law as public morality”? What is this morality based on? It would really irritate me if I thought the Vatican was calling all the shots in my life and my decision-making. What morality are you referring to? What’s the origin of this morality? Has it changed since we gained freedom from Great Britain? Is the law based on morality an organic, vibrant thing, or is it stagnant and unchanging?

gen

As I said, ‘bye, gen.’

 

[genevievelives]

I don’t know about his “standing.”
I don’t know what went on between his confessor and him.
I don’t know what went on between the Vatican and him.

I do know that he’s dead.

Of what relevance is this?

gen

 

[catharina]

Tell you what. Scott Peterson from California is on the death row for killing 2 persons at the same time. His wife and his own unborn “fetus”.

As American citizens, we are entitled to know, to understand clearly the laws. As children of God, we are to know His laws, not our own laws. I myself, am trying to understand.

God bless

Yes. Very true.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

Do they simply ban an individual without explanation? Curious.

“Type away.” What’s the tone of this remark? Is it a suggestion that no matter what my position it is not worth consideration by anyone - anyone - on this forum??

gen

No not at all.

I meant type (as on a key board) all you wish.

As long as we obey forum rules, we shouldn’t worry about banishment.

 

[John_Pascendi]

I debated whether to start this thread under Moral Issues but decided to put it under Social Justice because its about, in my opinion, justice for the unborn.

Are there any pro-choice Cathlics out there? I will state right fom the beginning lest anyone out there might believe anythng else given the title of the thread –

          **"I AM PRO-LIFE"**

The reason for this thread is to have a calm and civil discussion about abortion. If there are any pro-choice Cathlics out there, please state your reasons for this belief and if possible, please back it up with scripture and Catholic teaching. Also, I would like to know if whether you are pro-choice or pro-life, do you attend chuch regularly and participate in your faith fully?

Thank you – and I pray this will be an inspiring and uplifting experience for all who participate.

To the Moderators: Please montior this discussion and if it becomes vile I ask that you shut it down.

…the very word itself…Choice just proves the debate is kinda one sided.One always likes to hear that a ‘choice’ is posible…like going to the super market and having choices in produce. I handle this debate at presentations by explaining that choices are rare indeed…can one drive on either side of the street one wishes to or is the choice limited.Also why is the temporary host having the only ‘choice’…what of the daddy ,I am no biology major but I kinder think a male had something to do with this new creature appearing inside of this temporary hosts body…but he is never asked. What of future generations,how many of the 60 million developing babies killed here in the good ole US of A…would have maybe been a scientist discovering a cure for cancer or aids…get my drift…no choice of words there,the snow is really drifting outside…thank Gore for earth warming,imagine how bad this winter would be if not for this brilliant mans Noble prize discovery…I would never vote for a pro-abortion candidate for to me the right to life is numero uno or else does not matter . Pas

 

[The_Old_Medic]

There are baptized, and Confirmed Catholics that believe that abortion is OK under certain circumstances. Some even believe that abortion is simply the choice of the individual, and that supporting that "choice " is not sinful.

Regardless of their personal beliefs, such a stand places them outside of the Catholic Church, places them in a position of Mortal Sin, cuts them off from legitimately receiving the Eucharist, and separates them from God.

While God indeed gives us freedom to choose what we think, he also gives us the total freedom to reject him, his church and its teachings.

Those “Catholics” that support the “Pro-Choice” movement have voluntarily separated themselves from the church. They should be publicly refused the Eucharist in any Church where they are identified, and they should know that each time they receive the Eucharist, they are adding another mortal sin onto their ledger.

Just as Adam could not use the excuse, “Eve made me do it”, when he sinned by eating the fruit of the “Tree of Knowledge”, no practisi9ng Catholic can use an excuse concerning abortion. It is a sin, under any circumstances, and support for it is also a sin.

There is no middle ground on this issue. It is an all or nothing, black and white issue. Either you support the concept that life begins at conception and that no one has the right to terminate that life, or you are outside of the Roman Catholic Church.

That IS the teaching of, and the position of, the Roman Catholic Church. If you choose to support Choice, you have removed yourself from being a Roman Catholic.

 

[genevievelives]

As I said, ‘bye, gen.’

Goodbye usually means someone is leaving and it’s not me. Try the ignore button.

gen

 

[TouchedByHost]

“Law as public morality”? What is this morality based on? It would really irritate me if I thought the Vatican was calling all the shots in my life and my decision-making. What morality are you referring to? What’s the origin of this morality? Has it changed since we gained freedom from Great Britain? Is the law based on morality an organic, vibrant thing, or is it stagnant and unchanging?

gen

Why do we arrest people who smoke some crack? People do what they want, don’t they?
What is this morality based on?

God bless.

 

[CMatt25]

If you choose to support Choice, you have removed yourself from being a Roman Catholic.

I understand there are varying degrees of sdherence, faithfulness, and practice.

But since when does a person not become a member of the Catholic Church by Baptism?

Since when are even excommunicated Catholics still not considered Catholics by the Catholic Church?

1. It remains clear, in any event, that the sacramental bond of belonging to the Body of Christ that is the Church, conferred by the baptismal character, is an ontological and permanent bond which is not lost by reason of any act or fact of defection.

vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/intrptxt/documents/rc_pc_intrptxt_doc_20060313_actus-formalis_en.html

 

[genevievelives]

…the very word itself…Choice just proves the debate is kinda one sided.One always likes to hear that a ‘choice’ is posible…like going to the super market and having choices in produce. I handle this debate at presentations by explaining that choices are rare indeed…can one drive on either side of the street one wishes to or is the choice limited.Also why is the temporary host having the only ‘choice’…what of the daddy ,I am no biology major but I kinder think a male had something to do with this new creature appearing inside of this temporary hosts body…but he is never asked. What of future generations,how many of the 60 million developing babies killed here in the good ole US of A…would have maybe been a scientist discovering a cure for cancer or aids…get my drift…no choice of words there,the snow is really drifting outside…thank Gore for earth warming,imagine how bad this winter would be if not for this brilliant mans Noble prize discovery…I would never vote for a pro-abortion candidate for to me the right to life is numero uno or else does not matter . Pas

What?! What makes you believe this?

gen

 

[genevievelives]

“That IS the teaching of, and the position of, the Roman Catholic Church. If you choose to support Choice, you have removed yourself from being a Roman Catholic.”

If it were that simple to UNbecome Catholic, why didn’t someone explain it 50 years ago? Or last week? My understanding is that, although one may scoff at the Church’s permeation of souls, and claim those souls for its own, it is impossible to shake Catholicism if one desires to do so. Once a Catholic, always a Catholic. Look at the annulment/marriage “rules”, for instance.

gen

 

[3584stmichael]

“That IS the teaching of, and the position of, the Roman Catholic Church. If you choose to support Choice, you have removed yourself from being a Roman Catholic.”

If it were that simple to UNbecome Catholic, why didn’t someone explain it 50 years ago? Or last week? My understanding is that, although one may scoff at the Church’s permeation of souls, and claim those souls for its own, it is impossible to shake Catholicism if one desires to do so. Once a Catholic, always a Catholic. Look at the annulment/marriage “rules”, for instance.

gen

I think, and mind you I’m in RCIA so I could be wrong, that when you commit a mortal sin, its not that you are “UNcatholic” but rather you are not in communion with the Catholic Church. Therefor, you would then be committing a further sin by receiving the Eucharist while in that state of mortal sin.

 

[Eric_Hilbert]

Stay on the topic of the OP, the issue is Pro-choice Catholics, not each other

 

[sidbrown]

I don’t know about his “standing.”
I don’t know what went on between his confessor and him.
I don’t know what went on between the Vatican and him.

I do know that he’s dead.

I think he remained in good standing in the Roman Catholic Church. Of course, in 1997, he did retract his opposition to a legal ban on late-term abortion, but I don;t see where he retracted anything else.