Pro-choice Catholics

[genevievelives]

So if the govt decided stealing is OK but only within reason,
and lying is fine in the courts if you’re sure you won’t get caught,
and rape and murder, also no biggies, if the victim deserved it …

Then you’re ok with it. The govt speaks for you …
and so what? Your hands are tied. Is that it?

I’m addressing abortion here, nothing else. I see the world through the very experienced eyes of a relativist. Does that explain your discomfort?

gen

 

[catharina]

Great. So make abortion illegal. I will buy as much stock as possible in the pharmaceutical companies that make birth control devices and medications. Then I can pull up a front-row seat and, while raking in the big bucks, count the number of men who back away from their women and wives because, “oh, no, they might get knocked up.”

**1)This solves nothing, 2) Science is not on any side, 3) It will never happen in our lifetime.**gen

You said this. What did you mean?

 

[catharina]

Illegal abortion solved your problem, your disgust and dismay at the thought of fetuses being snuffed out. But it did NOT solve everything. Unwanted children were still conceived, and sometimes were born into hateful “homes” where they never heard the end of their inconvenient presence. Illegal abortions were still performed, sloppily, recklessly, dangerously. And forty years ago Catholics were still trying to work the kinks out of NFP, just as they are today. It did not solve everything.

If science concedes that human life begins at conception, I hardly see how that is a point for anyone’s side. Science is impartial. If it states a fact, it is not a pro-life fact. It is just a fact.

I never said “never again” would abortion be illegal. Why do posters continue to put words into my posts, or even intent, that never existed? That’s manipulative and disdainful.

gen

 

[catharina]

I’m addressing abortion here, nothing else. I see the world through the very experienced eyes of a relativist. Does that explain your discomfort?

gen

Funny you should imagine that I have discomfort,
while you claim to be frightened of being banned.

wow.

 

[catharina]

Illegal abortion solved your problem, your disgust and dismay at the thought of fetuses being snuffed out. But it did NOT solve everything. Unwanted children were still conceived, and sometimes were born into hateful “homes” where they never heard the end of their inconvenient presence. Illegal abortions were still performed, sloppily, recklessly, dangerously. And forty years ago Catholics were still trying to work the kinks out of NFP, just as they are today. It did not solve everything.

If science concedes that human life begins at conception, I hardly see how that is a point for anyone’s side. Science is impartial. If it states a fact, it is not a pro-life fact. It is just a fact.

I never said “never again” would abortion be illegal. Why do posters continue to put words into my posts, or even intent, that never existed? That’s manipulative and disdainful.

gen

So what did you MEAN when you said:

"Great. So make abortion illegal. I will buy as much stock as possible in the pharmaceutical companies that make birth control devices and medications. Then I can pull up a front-row seat and, while raking in the big bucks, count the number of men who back away from their women and wives because, “oh, no, they might get knocked up.”

1)This solves nothing, 2) Science is not on any side, 3) It will never happen in our lifetime."

Really hard to follow thinking that runs in circles.

 

[Newbie2]

I’m coming right out and saying that I am OK with abortions. I understand that the life of a fetus is ended in the process. I understand that the fetus then becomes hazardous waste. And the reason I’m OK with it is that it’s none of my business if a woman chooses to have one. I have absolutely no power over her, no influence to try to force her to change her mind, no individual sway on the US gov’t to change the law. If you want to try to force women to quit having sexual intercourse that might end up in conception, which is EVERY SINGLE TIME SEX OCCURS, and also force men to quit lusting after their women and wives as if that’s the only good thing on this planet and they just can’t keep their desires to themselves, good luck. Good luck, my friend.

gen

Just curious…so how do you feel about the life that gets snuffed out? Leave out the legality, your or my inability to change laws. We could debate whether or not you are as powerless as you think in influencing any particular woman’s decision, but let’s leave that aside for the moment as well.

How do you feel about the fetus that gets killed in an abortion? It seems to me that you’d rather not see abortions happening (correct me if I’m mistaken), so it seems to me that the purposeful killing of a fetus bothers you at some moral level.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

I have researched the archives and found some posters who flirted with free speech here were suspended or banned, apparently without explanation. One need not be a genius to understand the danger of civil discourse. It includes more than one side. Keep your eyes open and watch my status. You’ll come to understand what I mean by this.

gen

I’ve been here a bit…I’ve actually never see the moderators publish a reason for banishment. I think if we follow the forum rules, we will all be fine.

Type away.

 

[genevievelives]

You said this. What did you mean?

I already explained this in post #60, catharina.

gen

 

[genevievelives]

Funny you should imagine that I have discomfort,
while you claim to be frightened of being banned.

wow.

Frightened? No. Expectant, with frustration and a touch of sadness? Perhaps.

gen

 

[edwest2]

The choice means death. Everyone reading this began life as an embryo.

Peace,
Ed

 

[genevievelives]

So what did you MEAN when you said:

"Great. So make abortion illegal. I will buy as much stock as possible in the pharmaceutical companies that make birth control devices and medications. Then I can pull up a front-row seat and, while raking in the big bucks, count the number of men who back away from their women and wives because, “oh, no, they might get knocked up.”

1)This solves nothing, 2) Science is not on any side, 3) It will never happen in our lifetime."

Really hard to follow thinking that runs in circles.

Try.

gen

 

[genevievelives]

I’ve been here a bit…I’ve actually never see the moderators publish a reason for banishment. I think if we follow the forum rules, we will all be fine.

Type away.

Do they simply ban an individual without explanation? Curious.

“Type away.” What’s the tone of this remark? Is it a suggestion that no matter what my position it is not worth consideration by anyone - anyone - on this forum??

gen

 

[beafedor]

If science concedes that human life begins at conception, I hardly see how that is a point for anyone’s side. Science is impartial. If it states a fact, it is not a pro-life fact. It is just a fact. gen

Unfortunately, not all parties in this debate acknowledge this scientific fact. Our abortion friendly President didn’t when he was asked when life begins and neither does the contraception/abortion industry. At best, some of them say that life begins at “implantation” not conception. From Planned Parenthood website about “emergency contraception”: The hormone also thins the lining of the uterus. In theory, this could prevent pregnancy by keeping a fertilized egg from attaching to the uterus.You might have also heard that the morning-after pill causes an abortion. But that’s not true. plannedparenthood.org/health-topics/emergency-contraception-morning-after-pill-4363.asp

Some abortion workers tell women that it’s not a alive,/it’s not a human baby until it’s born, or after the end of the 1st trimester or it becomes human sometime in the 6th month. This has been recorded on tape on the undercover videos that Live Action has conducted. liveaction.org/ Yes it makes a huge difference when you tell the truth to a woman or when you don’t. Many wouldn’t go through with the abortion if they were given true simple scientific datas about their pregnancy.

 

[genevievelives]

Just curious…so how do you feel about the life that gets snuffed out? Leave out the legality, your or my inability to change laws. We could debate whether or not you are as powerless as you think in influencing any particular woman’s decision, but let’s leave that aside for the moment as well.

How do you feel about the fetus that gets killed in an abortion? It seems to me that you’d rather not see abortions happening (correct me if I’m mistaken), so it seems to me that the purposeful killing of a fetus bothers you at some moral level.

I think abortion is a travesty. But the only abortion I would feel personal regret about would be my own. If I made that decision, if I terminated a pregnancy (read: KILLED A DEVELOPING HUMAN BEING) I would then have to take steps to reconcile that with my God: not you, not catharina, not edwest2, not any other living human being. Now if the father of the embryo/fetus was in the picture I believe we would come to terms about this before the procedure. And if apologies and amends were due, I would apply my energies, heart and soul to that endeavor.

But any other person who undergoes abortion is beyond my scrutiny. And when a life is lost/sacrificed, snuffed out/obliterated/aspirated/ended, that is between the woman and her God, and also perhaps the father if he is present.

On a moral level, I am responsible solely for my own behaviors. I maintain my pro-choice stance: it is none of my business what other women do in the circumstance of unplanned pregnancy.

gen

 

[genevievelives]

Unfortunately, not all parties in this debate acknowledge this scientific fact. Our abortion friendly President didn’t when he was asked when life begins and neither does the contraception/abortion industry. At best, some of them say that life begins at “implantation” not conception. From Planned Parenthood website about “emergency contraception”: The hormone also thins the lining of the uterus. In theory, this could prevent pregnancy by keeping a fertilized egg from attaching to the uterus.You might have also heard that the morning-after pill causes an abortion. But that’s not true. plannedparenthood.org/health-topics/emergency-contraception-morning-after-pill-4363.asp

Some abortion workers tell women that it’s not a alive,/it’s not a human baby until it’s born, or after the end of the 1st trimester or it becomes human sometime in the 6th month. This has been recorded on tape on the undercover videos that Live Action has conducted. liveaction.org/ Yes it makes a huge difference when you tell the truth to a woman or when you don’t. Many wouldn’t go through with the abortion if they were given true simple scientific datas about their pregnancy.

Who is failing to inform and educate these women (and men)? This is the genesis of the problem, in my opinion.

gen

 

[beafedor]

Do they simply ban an individual without explanation? Curious.

“Type away.” What’s the tone of this remark? Is it a suggestion that no matter what my position it is not worth consideration by anyone - anyone - on this forum??

gen

Gen, people who are banned are reported by other posters (triangle flag on the right) and by message to the moderators. They are reported for serious reasons such as repeated personal attacks/insults. Personally I would like to continue the dialog with you on this subject. You are my sister as much as the other posters are and I would hate for you to leave this forum without hearing what I and others have to say about abortion. I pray that we all find a way to communicate as brothers and sisters. Be patient with me because I can’t post very often (two young kids) but I’m keeping you and this thread in my prayers.

 

[genevievelives]

Gen, people who are banned are reported by other posters (triangle flag on the right) and by message to the moderators. They are reported for serious reasons such as repeated personal attacks/insults. Personally I would like to continue the dialog with you on this subject. You are my sister as much as the other posters are and I would hate for you to leave this forum without hearing what I and others have to say about abortion. I pray that we all find a way to communicate as brothers and sisters. Be patient with me because I can’t post very often (two young kids) but I’m keeping you and this thread in my prayers.

gen

 

[sidbrown]

Are there any pro-choice Cathlics out there? .

I think that the most pro-choice US Congressman in the entire history of the United States was a Catholic priest, Father Robert F. Drinan, Congressman from Massachusetts. He argued that the legality of abortion was a separated issue from its morality. As far as I know, he always remained in good standing in the Roman Catholic Church and was never excommunicated or suspended.

 

[catharina]

I already explained this in post #60, catharina.

gen

Not really.

 

[Iowa_Mike]

Try.

gen

Don’t be so sure that abortion won’t be banned. You ignore the facts. Where are your views of ‘Personhood’ Laws or the banning of abortion beyond week 22 due because the baby can feel pain? These laws are advancing because of the science you dismiss as irrelevant. In fact is seems you don’t respond to hard questions or hard facts. I’ve asked you repeatedly if you watched the full vaginal abortion video, did you? No because it is very hard. When abortion is carried done in the dark…it is clinical…the gravity of it doesn’t register. But, shed a little light on it and people change their views, women change their minds about getting an abortion. Do you have the courage to watch it? Just in case here is the link yet again:

abortionno.org/

If after watching this very graphic video if your investment and abortion views remain the same, well that speaks volumes.

God Bless,

Iowa Mike