Very nice to see that someone else agrees thatDon’t be so sure that abortion won’t be banned. You ignore the facts. Where are your views of ‘Personhood’ Laws or the banning of abortion beyond week 22 due because the baby can feel pain? These laws are advancing because of the science you dismiss as irrelevant. In fact is seems you don’t respond to hard questions or hard facts. I’ve asked you repeatedly if you watched the full vaginal abortion video, did you? No because it is very hard. When abortion is carried done in the dark…it is clinical…the gravity of it doesn’t register. But, shed a little light on it and people change their views, women change their minds about getting an abortion. Do you have the courage to watch it? Just in case here is the link yet again:
abortionno.org/
If after watching this very graphic video if your investment and abortion views remain the same, well that speaks volumes.
God Bless,
Iowa Mike
Not right. In 1980 Pope John Paul ordered Drinan to either forgo re-election or leave the priesthood. Drinan chose to remain a priest. Why do you think Pope John Paul II gave him such this ultimatum? His views on abortion were not then and are not now in concert with the Catholic Church.I think that the most pro-choice US Congressman in the entire history of the United States was a Catholic priest, Father Robert F. Drinan, Congressman from Massachusetts. He argued that the legality of abortion was a separated issue from its morality. As far as I know, he always remained in good standing in the Roman Catholic Church and was never excommunicated or suspended.
Again, thank you.Not right. In 1980 Pope John Paul ordered Drinan to either forgo re-election or leave the priesthood. Drinan chose to remain a priest. Why do you think Pope John Paul II gave him such this ultimatum? His views on abortion were not then and are not now in concert with the Catholic Church.
God Bless,
Iowa Mike
Post #50 gen said, "Great. So make abortion illegal. I will buy as much stock as possible in the pharmaceutical companies that make birth control devices and medications. Then I can pull up a front-row seat and, while raking in the big bucks, count the number of men who back away from their women and wives because, “oh, no, they might get knocked up.”Very nice to see that someone else agrees that
the poster seems to have said ‘abortion will not be banned in our lifetime.’
Again, it seems to me she said exactly that.
If she MEANT something else, it would be nice to see a clarification.
So I thank you, iowa mike.
First of all, when you reply to any of my posts, please remove the “God Bless” part, as it is obviously disingenuous.Don’t be so sure that abortion won’t be banned. You ignore the facts. Where are your views of ‘Personhood’ Laws or the banning of abortion beyond week 22 due because the baby can feel pain? These laws are advancing because of the science you dismiss as irrelevant. In fact is seems you don’t respond to hard questions or hard facts. I’ve asked you repeatedly if you watched the full vaginal abortion video, did you? No because it is very hard. When abortion is carried done in the dark…it is clinical…the gravity of it doesn’t register. But, shed a little light on it and people change their views, women change their minds about getting an abortion. Do you have the courage to watch it? Just in case here is the link yet again:
abortionno.org/
If after watching this very graphic video if your investment and abortion views remain the same, well that speaks volumes.
God Bless,
Iowa Mike
How old are you, catharina? Let’s say you’re 50. My remark about “in our lifetime”, in your case, would mean that the banning of abortion will not likely happen within the next, say, 35 years, (that is, if you live to be 85) or for as long as you remain on this earth. Your lifetime. Get it?Post #50 gen said, "Great. So make abortion illegal. I will buy as much stock as possible in the pharmaceutical companies that make birth control devices and medications. Then I can pull up a front-row seat and, while raking in the big bucks, count the number of men who back away from their women and wives because, “oh, no, they might get knocked up.”
1)This solves nothing, 2) Science is not on any side, 3) It will never happen in our lifetime.gen
Case closed.
God Bless,
Iowa Mike
Oh. Now I see.First of all, when you reply to any of my posts, please remove the “God Bless” part, as it is obviously disingenuous.
I do not ignore the facts. I am the facts. I had the courage to “watch the video” several decades ago when I had my own abortion. I know whereof I speak. How many of you have ever been in my shoes? Unless you have suffered the trauma of deciding where to go and what to do with an unplanned pregnancy, your opinion, in my estimation, is nothing but academic noise. Woulda-shoulda-coulda-oughtta don’t gotta lotta in my book.
I will never, ever change my views on abortion. It is grizzly, even in gleaming, aseptic conditions with friendly faces all around, people comforting, soft music playing, even when the tab is picked up by an unknown benefactor. It is tragic and horrifying, yes. Why would I ever deny this? I decided to go ahead with an abortion for reason I will not disclose here; but be aware that I will continue to defend any woman’s or any couple’s right to seek and have an abortion. THAT DECISION IS BETWEEN THEM AND THE GOD THEY WORSHIP. And my decision was between my God and me.
I am not attempting to change minds on abortion… We are each entitled to an opinion. You are also entitled to believe I am a murderer if you wish. But I don’t really think that tallies up on God’s sheet. Your opinions of the women, the couples, the doctors, or any of the participants or circumstances that are embroiled in abortion are just that: opinions. I just happen to think that those who have had the actual experience and aren’t just perusing bits and pieces that come out in the “news” carry more credibility. The rest is armchair critic stuff.
gen
I’m 65 yrs old.How old are you, catharina? Let’s say you’re 50. My remark about “in our lifetime”, in your case, would mean that the banning of abortion will not likely happen within the next, say, 35 years, (that is, if you live to be 85) or for as long as you remain on this earth. Your lifetime. Get it?
gen
A link, please, to a site where Fr. Drinan actually retracted his view on abortion. No doubt his views were not in concert with the Catholic Church. But I have not read anywhere, in any piece that can be corroborated or verified, that he renounced his beliefs on abortion. Yes, he was put between a rock and a hard place, politics vs. the Church, and he stepped down. This does not mean he disavowed anything. It means his relationship with God was more important to him than his political life. This from Wikipedia:Not right. In 1980 Pope John Paul ordered Drinan to either forgo re-election or leave the priesthood. Drinan chose to remain a priest. Why do you think Pope John Paul II gave him such this ultimatum? His views on abortion were not then and are not now in concert with the Catholic Church.
God Bless,
Iowa Mike
Because pro-lifers are bootstrapped and outnumbered, and too congenial to drive a revolution. Generations of young men and women will continue to follow, and vote, who have known nothing but legal abortion. I doubt that will turn around in 35 or 50 years. You may get a Supreme Court in there that will capsize the status quo, but in my lifetime I have not seen anything so radical in American politics. I believe it is highly unlikely that legal abortion will turn around under these circumstances. Yeah, I could be wrong. No need to get uppity about it. It’s simply an opinion.Oh. Now I see.
So you’re here to “teach”
but not to learn.
That sort of explains a lot.
All iowamike and I asked is
WHY you think abortion will NOT be outlawed in
our lifetimes. You said it. Will you explain it?
A directive from the Vatican is simply that.A link, please, to a site where Fr. Drinan actually retracted his view on abortion. No doubt his views were not in concert with the Catholic Church. But I have not read anywhere, in any piece that can be corroborated or verified, that he renounced his beliefs on abortion. Yes, he was put between a rock and a hard place, politics vs. the Church, and he stepped down. This does not mean he disavowed anything. It means his relationship with God was more important to him than his political life. This from Wikipedia:
"Drinan continued to be a vocal supporter of abortion rights, much to the ire of the Catholic Church, and notably spoke out in support of President Bill Clinton’s veto of the Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act in 1996. In his weekly column for the Catholic New York, Cardinal John O’Connor sharply denounced Drinan. ‘You could have raised your voice for life; you raised it for death,’ the cardinal wrote, “Hardly the role of a lawyer. Surely not the role of a priest.’ … Drinan died of pneumonia and congestive heart failure on January 28, 2007 in Washington, D.C.”
Doesn’t sound like a man slinking away from his beliefs, does it?
gen
Good grief, I don’t want your age. I just wanted you to understand the thing you said you couldn’t understand. This circuitous baiting ends here.I’m 65 yrs old.
How old are you?
More relevant, how old is iowa mike?
Weren’t you addressing him?
So you want my age … why?
PS - Abortion laws have already been greatly restricted in some US States.
uppity?Because pro-lifers are bootstrapped and outnumbered, and too congenial to drive a revolution. Generations of young men and women will continue to follow, and vote, who have known nothing but legal abortion. I doubt that will turn around in 35 or 50 years. You may get a Supreme Court in there that will capsize the status quo, but in my lifetime I have not seen anything so radical in American politics. I believe it is highly unlikely that legal abortion will turn around under these circumstances. Yeah, I could be wrong. No need to get uppity about it. It’s simply an opinion.
K?
gen
Oh, one other thing, catharina. I’m not here to teach, I’m here to share. Your ugly tone is not lost on me.
g
So you’re 65? Dare I say abortion illegality probably will not happen in your lifetime? Point out a baby in a stroller to me; maybe in his or her lifetime; maybe not.I’m 65 yrs old.
How old are you?
More relevant, how old is iowa mike?
Weren’t you addressing him?
So you want my age … why?
PS - Abortion laws have already been greatly restricted in some US States.
I don’t see where he changed his views one bit. And he remained a priest in good standing.Not right. In 1980 Pope John Paul ordered Drinan to either forgo re-election or leave the priesthood. Drinan chose to remain a priest. Why do you think Pope John Paul II gave him such this ultimatum? His views on abortion were not then and are not now in concert with the Catholic Church.
God Bless,
Iowa Mike
Then why do we have laws to prosecute murderers? I am trying to understand here.I think abortion is a travesty. But the only abortion I would feel personal regret about would be my own. If I made that decision, if I terminated a pregnancy (read: KILLED A DEVELOPING HUMAN BEING) I would then have to take steps to reconcile that with my God: not you, not catharina, not edwest2, not any other living human being. Now if the father of the embryo/fetus was in the picture I believe we would come to terms about this before the procedure. And if apologies and amends were due, I would apply my energies, heart and soul to that endeavor.
But any other person who undergoes abortion is beyond my scrutiny. And when a life is lost/sacrificed, snuffed out/obliterated/aspirated/ended, that is between the woman and her God, and also perhaps the father if he is present.
On a moral level, I am responsible solely for my own behaviors. I maintain my pro-choice stance: it is none of my business what other women do in the circumstance of unplanned pregnancy.
gen
The man is dead.I don’t see where he changed his views one bit. And he remained a priest in good standing.
No. First of all, Father Drinan was a Congressman, not a US Senator. Secondly, the Vatican in 1980 asked all priests to withdraw from electoral politics.I don;t see where Father Drinan was asked by the Vatican to renounce his pro-choice views.A directive from the Vatican is simply that.
Like Charles Curran who was forbidden to teach as a Catholic theologian
after he “taught against Church teachings” (Curran obeyed),
so Drinan too obeyed and quit the Senate,
no longer able to direct his views at large.
As to the state of the soul of either man at death (Curran still living)
we have no means of knowing that. Did Drinan reform?
Who knows? Did he OBEY? Like Curran, yes.
Yes. All priests were asked to leave electoral politics at that time. He complied with the directive, but I don’t see where he was asked to renounce what he had advocated in the area of pro-choice legislation?The man is dead.
He was directed to LEAVE the public forum of politics.
He did so.
He followed that directive.
That was the point being made.
Yes, of course - Congressman Drinan. Silly me.No. First of all, Father Drinan was a Congressman, not a US Senator. Secondly, the Vatican in 1980 asked all priests to withdraw from electoral politics.I don;t see where Father Drinan was asked by the Vatican to renounce his pro-choice views.
The record shows that of all UIS Congressman in the history of the USA, Father Drinan was the most pro-choice Congressman ever, according to his voting record and his speeches. I don;t see where he ever was required to renounce his pro-choice views?