Pro-Choice folks, what are your reasons for supporting abortion?

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I understand what you are saying. I still disagree with the pics. They are graphic and gross. I think that people are intelligent enough to get the concept of abortion without having to resort to graphic and violent pics. Because of this, I have been called all kinds of things. How is that helping anything?
How many late term abortions are performed in this country anyway, and for what reasons?

And how is it that some Christians, like many here, suddenly don’t accept the precedent of your own Bible? It seems to be a matter of embarrassment, and I suppose I can see why.
 
I understand what you are saying. I still disagree with the pics. They are graphic and gross. I think that people are intelligent enough to get the concept of abortion without having to resort to graphic and violent pics. Because of this, I have been called all kinds of things. How is that helping anything?
I am not calling you anything. I am saying that I myself was ignorant of something that I can’t even to this day believe exists at all. I think it ought to be outlawed throughout the world. It is murder and some people, not you, but some people do NEED to see what it is. (I do agree with you that shoving them into a child’s face would be disgusting), however, I also think that if I were someplace with any child and we both saw those photos that I would explain it to the child, in ways that were age-appropriate so that they too could understand how evil and wrong abortion is. Had I grown up educated about it, I am sure I would have been more involved and spoke up a lot more about it my entire adult life.
 
I understand what you are saying. I still disagree with the pics. They are graphic and gross. I think that people are intelligent enough to get the concept of abortion without having to resort to graphic and violent pics.
You seem to think abortion is a cognitive matter (an issue of logic, math and language.) It is not. It is an affective matter (an issue of feelings, values and attitudes.)

You cannot reach the affective realm with words, printed or spoken. You reach the affective realm with appeals to emotions and feelings.
Because of this, I have been called all kinds of things. How is that helping anything?
How did it help when you called another poster a “terrorist?”
 
No they are not extreme. The procedures they represent are extreme. There is a big difference between the two. I would be happy to explain the difference if needed.
Admitted what?Simply stated again. Civilized societies don’t massacre their young.
The pics are extreme, so are the procedures. (I am not arguing that the procedures are not extreme) I don’t need the explanation because I still don’t agree with the method of the pics.You admitted that you are an extremist and are willing to use extreme methods. We are civilized society. If we weren’t, protest would not be allowed.
 
I am not calling you anything. I am saying that I myself was ignorant of something that I can’t even to this day believe exists at all. I think it ought to be outlawed throughout the world. It is murder and some people, not you, but some people do NEED to see what it is. (I do agree with you that shoving them into a child’s face would be disgusting), however, I also think that if I were someplace with any child and we both saw those photos that I would explain it to the child, in ways that were age-appropriate so that they too could understand how evil and wrong abortion is. Had I grown up educated about it, I am sure I would have been more involved and spoke up a lot more about it my entire adult life.
The Bible does not say that terminating a pregnancy is murder. Quite the contrary as a matter of fact.
 
I can’t get beyond it either. I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone would defend showing graphic photos to young children-no matter what the pictures were. If we were talking about anti-war protesters shoving photos of dead soldiers in the car windows where young children were sitting I would be objecting just as strongly.

There are appropriate audiences for such things.
That’s the point I made above, when I was young, the things that I saw educated me, my parents explained them to me and no one ever even talked to me about abortion, I didn’t even know such a thing existed until I was about 18. I wish I had known earlier, as I could have educated more people about it for a longer period of time, if anyone had ever shown me such a photo I would have known the horror of abortion and would have done more to end it sooner.
 
The Bible does not say that terminating a pregnancy is murder. Quite the contrary as a matter of fact.
I think you may be a very ill individual to try to use God’s word to defend your purpose, it has been suggested to you to go start another thread by using your verse to go and learn the meaning of it, why don’t you?
 
The Bible does not say that terminating a pregnancy is murder. Quite the contrary as a matter of fact.
The bible also says the children of Israel are to kill their enemies without mercy, including women and children.

Christians, however, have been commanded to regard the unborn child as fully human as a person already born. And science confirms that the human is formed at the moment of conception.
 
And how is it that some Christians, like many here, suddenly don’t accept the precedent of your own Bible? It seems to be a matter of embarrassment, and I suppose I can see why.
As you have self admitted, you do not understand what the passage means, therefore do not pretend to now be an authority on what it means. Take it to apologetics.
 
You seem to think abortion is a cognitive matter (an issue of logic, math and language.) It is not. It is an affective matter (an issue of feelings, values and attitudes.)

You cannot reach the affective realm with words, printed or spoken. You reach the affective realm with appeals to emotions and feelings.

How did it help when you called another poster a “terrorist?”
Abortion is extremely emotional. I am not talking about it like it is cognitive. It is murder. Terrorizing others by shock method is terrorism.
 
Numbers 5:11–31 speaks its own clear language.
I always find it useful to read what Orthodox Judaism has to say on these things. Here is a post on a different forum by someone whose sign-on is ssv and ends with the following smiley: 👋 For those of us who have been around a while, I am guessing this is the same ssv (still small voice) who has posted a lot of helpful information from a Jewish perspective.
theologyweb.com/campus/showthread.php?t=26944
ssv from another forum:
(by Rabbi Phil Chernovsky)

If a wife is unfaithful to her husband, and there is no proof of her adultery, or if a man suspects his wife of unfaithfulness and it be unwarranted, he may formally warn her in front of witnesses not to be seen in the company of a particular man. This warning is a precondition to the whole topic of Sota.

Suspicion alone, or even adultery per se, do not produce the conditions for Sota without a formal warning by the husband. Once the warning is issued, it is a mitzva (requirement) to proceed with the Sota-process. The husband must bring his wife to the kohen [priest] at the Beit HaMikdash [Temple]. A barley-meal offering is brought. No oil or spice is used with it since the issue at hand is so serious and unpleasant before God. Note from SSV: I’ve heard why the offering here must be plain barley meal, which is unique, I think, among the various meal-offerings in the Torah. Barley meal is very coarse and is usually an animal feed. Adultery is bestial & those guilty of it have acted like animals, who copulate by instinct and are driven by their brute impulses.

The kohen prepares a potion consisting of water from the Kiyor (the washing basin in the courtyard of the Beit HaMikdash), earth from the floor, and the dissolved writing of this portion of the Torah. The kohen administers an oath to the woman asking her to swear to her innocence, if that be the case, or to admit her guilt. The woman is warned of serious adverse effects of the potion which she will be given to drink, if in fact she has committed adultery, and of the favorable consequences of the potion if she is innocent.

(…).

There are many details, too numerous to include here, concerning the conditions necessary for the Sota-process to go though to its end. In other words, there would be many situations when the oath and potion would not be used.

One interesting and serious warning for today. The first part of Sota, namely the warning in front of witnesses, applies today, even without a Beit HaMikdash. If a man were to give the Sota-warning in front of witnesses today, and his wife subsequently is seen alone with the man named in the warning, he would be duty-bound to bring his wife to the Beit HaMikdash (a slight problem today, unfortunately) and he would be prohibited from having relations with her until then. Big problem. Easy solution: don’t do the first part, no matter what the situation.
Continued on next post
 
I think you may be a very ill individual to try to use God’s word to defend your purpose, it has been suggested to you to go start another thread by using your verse to go and learn the meaning of it, why don’t you?
Here’s why: I believe that every pro-lifer on this thread derives his or her morals from the Bible. It is therefore directly pertinent to bring up the fact what the Bible says on the topic. Numbers 5 seems to PRESCRIBE abortions.

Please don’t tell me you don’t see the point.
 
Numbers 5 cont’d
by Rabbi Noson WeiszOne of the laws discussed in Parshat Naso is known as the law of the sotah, which describes how a Jewish court is meant to deal with an adulterous woman. (Numbers 5:12-31)If a woman is accused of adultery by her husband, and there are serious grounds for suspicion, she is given a choice: accept a divorce or stand up to a strange test. The test, if she opts for it, requires her to drink “bitter waters” into which the name of God had been dissolved. If she is guilty, she dies instantaneously.If we could hold a contest to determine the most misunderstood commandment in the Torah, then the law of the sotah would have to be declared the hands-down winner.The chief problem lies in the mistaken idea that this law is meant to put down women. But this is far from the case. As in everything else, the truth is in the details.First let’s set the record straight as to the facts.SETTING THE RECORD STRAIGHTWhile it is the accused woman who must actually drink the bitter waters, the waters affect her male partner in adultery identically. Just as the waters examine her, they also examine him. (Talmud, Sotah 27b)What is more, the Torah awards the power of decision to the woman rather than to the man who must share her fate. She is not forced to drink the bitter waters at all. She can admit to adultery and accept a divorce. The truth is she doesn’t even have to admit to anything. She just has to refuse to drink the bitter waters on any grounds at all. She can say she has too much anxiety; she can say she would rather lose money than cause the holy name of God to be rubbed out; she can say she can’t live with such a suspicious husband anyway etc. All she loses if she chooses not to drink is her ketubah, her marriage settlement, merely a monetary loss. She is free to marry anyone, and walk away from the entire mess totally unencumbered.The man, on the other hand, is at her mercy. If she professes her innocence and insists on drinking the waters it will avail him naught to admit to his guilt. As long as she decides to drink, if the water kills her, it will kill him too.In general Jewish law treats both parties to adultery in precisely the same fashion. Whatever is a punishable offense for the female is the same for the male.
 
We are civilized society. If we weren’t, protest would not be allowed.
So then why not let those who wish to use graphic photos be and you go about doing what you do. We are civilized after all.
 
Numbers 5 cont’d
GOD’S COOPERATIONNachmanides (tinyurl.com/ytgwl) points out that of all the 613 commandments, it is only the sotah law that requires God’s specific co-operation to make it work. The bitter waters can only be effective miraculously. The Torah assures guilty adulterers that their horrible deaths will follow the drinking of the waters instantaneously, and it promises the innocent woman who was wrongfully accused and elected to go through the humiliating sotah experience to demonstrate her innocence that she will conceive a child even if she is barren.In fact, the Talmud says that Chana, the prophet Samuel’s mother, and a prophetess in her own right, who was barren, threatened God that if He would not help her to conceive through her prayers she would make herself into a sotah and force Him into helping her anyway. (Brochot, 31b)The sotah law is also the only commandment whose fulfillment requires the erasure of God’s name, an act that is ordinarily forbidden and punishable by the administration of lashes. The commentators all explain that the stakes involved in Jewish family purity and the preservation of marital trust that serves as its foundation are so high, that God is willing to tolerate the erasure of His own name, as well as to depart from His ordinary policy of conducting the world according to the rules of nature in order to restore domestic trust and marital peace.Thus, anyone who is skeptical about the existence of God or about the fact that He intervenes in human lives can safely assume that the entire sotah story as it is described in the Talmud never happened at all. On the other hand, anyone who accepts the truth of Torah as interpreted by the sages cannot fail to be moved by God’s obvious concern for the sanctity of a Jewish marriage.Every miracle is an outright violation of the Divine policy to remain hidden behind natural phenomena and stay out of man’s way, so as not to disturb the unhampered exercise of free will. Yet, whereas the holiest rabbis or the greatest tragedies cannot persuade God to alter this policy of concealment, every Jewish sotah had the power to force God to come right out into the open.The sotah law is the diametric opposite of discrimination against the Jewish woman. It emphasizes her supremacy in the all important area of family purity. When it comes to these issues the Jewish male is a mere appendage. See also tinyurl.com/3xtmd.
 
Abortion is extremely emotional. I am not talking about it like it is cognitive. It is murder. Terrorizing others by shock method is terrorism.
So you stand by your accusation of terrorism? You actually claim other posters here are terrorists?
 
Here’s why: I believe that every pro-lifer on this thread derives his or her morals from the Bible. It is therefore directly pertinent to bring up the fact what the Bible says on the topic. Numbers 5 seems to PRESCRIBE abortions.

Please don’t tell me you don’t see the point.
please read the post right above yours. (post # 1207 and the others they posted for you.)
 
I always find it useful to read what Orthodox Judaism has to say on these things. Here is a post on a different forum by someone whose sign-on is ssv and ends with the following smiley: 👋 For those of us who have been around a while, I am guessing this is the same ssv (still small voice) who has posted a lot of helpful information from a Jewish perspective.
theologyweb.com/campus/showthread.php?t=26944

Continued on next post
This passage does not contradict the fact that in some cases the miscarriage of an unborn child would be the end result of this Sota process. So what’s your point?
 
That’s the point I made above, when I was young, the things that I saw educated me, my parents explained them to me and no one ever even talked to me about abortion, I didn’t even know such a thing existed until I was about 18. I wish I had known earlier, as I could have educated more people about it for a longer period of time, if anyone had ever shown me such a photo I would have known the horror of abortion and would have done more to end it sooner.
I know you didn’t call me names :hug1: I never said you did.
 
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