Pro-life and Pro-refugee (NYT)

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JustaServant said:
There are many ways of being pro-death just as there are many ways of being pro-life.
There are several issues the 21st Pro-life movement needs to deal with to be effective in the future.
Abortion has now been around for almost 45 years. That’s nearly half a century. Like it or not, it has become part of the world landscape. Even if abortion ended tomorrow, the damage is done. It cannot be reversed.
As a result of that I fear, the pro-life movement in this country has become desperate. In identifying itself with a particular party (Republican) and a particular candidate (Trump) they may very well have signed their own death warrant. This is no longer the 1970s or 80s.
We now live in a society that has been ‘at war’ for 16 years. We now kill people with drones attacks. We have more police shootings than I ever remember. We blink and say ‘ain’t that too bad’ when an unarmed kid is killed.
We have more mass shootings than I ever remember. Our police have become militarized. We think it’s great idea to start a new nuclear arms race. We turn our back on poor refugees. Our favorite TV show is The Walking Dead. Our favorite movies depict the most gory violence ever seen on screen.
And yet we say we are ‘pro-life’.
Perhaps, abortion is not the disease. Perhaps its a symptom of a much larger problem.
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Abortion or pro-choice is simply the intentional killing of the most innocent of a human being. So many try to ease their conscience by trying to lump this in with other things. It is exactly as it sounds, intentionally taking an action to kill (take the life of) a human being. If it makes some feel better to “dumb” down that meaning and why they support the party of death, it may make them feel better about it now, but have a much bigger explanation to give at the end of their life. It is killing and no one argues about that, other than trying to change the meaning.

Would you have said in the 1800’s that slavery was law for 245 years so just accept it?

I wonder the excuses that many would give or how they would change the terms if called Pro - Savebabies and Pro - Killbabiessonotinconvenienced, rather than Pro -Life or Pro - Choice?

I agree that it is a symptom, but the symptom of people accepting something they know at their core to be wrong.
 
dmelosi said:
Abortion or pro-choice is simply the intentional killing of the most innocent of a human being. So many try to ease their conscience by trying to lump this in with other things. It is exactly as it sounds, intentionally taking an action to kill (take the life of) a human being. If it makes some feel better to “dumb” down that meaning and why they support the party of death, it may make them feel better about it now, but have a much bigger explanation to give at the end of their life. It is killing and no one argues about that, other than trying to change the meaning.

Would you have said in the 1800’s that slavery was law for 245 years so just accept it?

I wonder the excuses that many would give or how they would change the terms if called Pro - Savebabies and Pro - Killbabiessonotinconvenienced, rather than Pro -Life or Pro - Choice?

I agree that it is a symptom, but the symptom of people accepting something they know at their core to be wrong.
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I don’t recall saying any of those things. Where in my post did I say ‘accept’ anything? I’m simply believe it might be time to address the core of the problem.
Human life, at any stage, is either sacred or it’s not. There’s no middle ground. Since 1973 respect for human life and human dignity has crashed and burned.
I’m simply proposing that the pro-life movement expand to include every stage of life.
In 40 years abortion has not ended through political means. Perhaps it’s time to look to other means of ending the slaughter of the unborn.
 
Were some of you not paying attention to last Sundays first Mass reading from the Prophet Isaiah…

Fifth Sunday in Ordinary Time
Lectionary: 73

** Reading 1 Is 58:7-10**

*Thus says the LORD:
Share your bread with the hungry,
shelter the oppressed and the homeless;
clothe the naked when you see them,
and do not turn your back on your own.
Then your light shall break forth like the dawn,
and your wound shall quickly be healed;
your vindication shall go before you,
and the glory of the LORD shall be your rear guard.
Then you shall call, and the LORD will answer,
you shall cry for help, and he will say: Here I am!
If you remove from your midst
oppression, false accusation and malicious speech;
if you bestow your bread on the hungry
and satisfy the afflicted;
then light shall rise for you in the darkness,
and the gloom shall become for you like midday. *
 
JustaServant said:
I don’t recall saying any of those things. Where in my post did I say ‘accept’ anything? I’m simply believe it might be time to address the core of the problem.
Human life, at any stage, is either sacred or it’s not. There’s no middle ground. Since 1973 respect for human life and human dignity has crashed and burned.
I’m simply proposing that the pro-life movement expand to include every stage of life.
In 40 years abortion has not ended through political means. Perhaps it’s time to look to other means of ending the slaughter of the unborn.
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Abortion has now been around for almost 45 years. That’s nearly half a century. Like it or not, it has become part of the world landscape. Even if abortion ended tomorrow, the damage is done. It cannot be reversed.
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I apologize if I misread what you meant by it cannot be reversed. Reading it again, you could mean the damage cannot be reversed, rather than the the law.

The movement you talk about needs to be pro livelife, pro life, until so many are trying to change the meaning, simply means “I am against killing the most innocent” and not “how do I help people live a safer/better life.”
 
2_RollinStoned said:
Were some of you not paying attention to last Sundays first Mass reading from the Prophet Isaiah…

Fifth Sunday in Ordinary Time
Lectionary: 73

** Reading 1 Is 58:7-10**

*Thus says the LORD:
Share your bread with the hungry,
shelter the oppressed and the homeless;
clothe the naked when you see them,
and do not turn your back on your own.
Then your light shall break forth like the dawn,
and your wound shall quickly be healed;
your vindication shall go before you,
and the glory of the LORD shall be your rear guard.
Then you shall call, and the LORD will answer,
you shall cry for help, and he will say: Here I am!
If you remove from your midst
oppression, false accusation and malicious speech;
if you bestow your bread on the hungry
and satisfy the afflicted;
then light shall rise for you in the darkness,
and the gloom shall become for you like midday. *
Click to expand...
Was that meant in this thread? If yes, how so?
 
2_RollinStoned said:
Were some of you not paying attention to last Sundays first Mass reading from the Prophet Isaiah…

Fifth Sunday in Ordinary Time
Lectionary: 73

** Reading 1 Is 58:7-10**

*Thus says the LORD:
Share your bread with the hungry,
shelter the oppressed and the homeless;
clothe the naked when you see them,
and do not turn your back on your own.
Then your light shall break forth like the dawn,
and your wound shall quickly be healed;
your vindication shall go before you,
and the glory of the LORD shall be your rear guard.
Then you shall call, and the LORD will answer,
you shall cry for help, and he will say: Here I am!
If you remove from your midst
oppression, false accusation and malicious speech;
if you bestow your bread on the hungry
and satisfy the afflicted;
then light shall rise for you in the darkness,
and the gloom shall become for you like midday. *
Click to expand...
How have you shared you bread with the poor or sheltered the oppressed or homeless? What sacrifices have you personally made?
 
ucfengr said:
How have you shared you bread with the poor or sheltered the oppressed or homeless? What sacrifices have you personally made?
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Start a thread for that and I will join in there. No reason to hijack this thread.
 
dmelosi said:
Was that meant in this thread? If yes, how so?
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Does it not speak to a nation? Do you not see an application and mandate to all nations there?
ucfengr said:
How have you shared you bread with the poor or sheltered the oppressed or homeless? What sacrifices have you personally made?
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This is none of your business and an irrelevant deflection.

Does the above passage of scripture apply to the United States of America or not?
 
Son_of_Niall said:
Strike a nerve?
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Perhaps, but it’s still just an irrelevant deflection isn’t it?🤷

The passage clearly speaks about feeding the hungry and specifically tells us that we should “*shelter the oppressed and the homeless” *which is the very definition of refugees.
 
dmelosi said:
I apologize if I misread what you meant by it cannot be reversed. Reading it again, you could mean the damage cannot be reversed, rather than the the law.
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The damage is done in that a generation of people, who would be around forty now, are gone. Any children or grandchildren they would have had, will not happen. The consequences for that, I believe, are being felt in this country right now. As well as world-wide.
 
2_RollinStoned said:
Does it not speak to a nation? Do you not see an application and mandate to all nations there?

This is none of your business and an irrelevant deflection.

Does the above passage of scripture apply to the United States of America or not?
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Pro-life is being against accepting/killing the most innocent. Pro-refugee means being for accepting refugees. Do you agree with that? It is the title of the thread. The reading you talked about is Catholic teaching we all should follow, and as I asked, not sure how it belongs in this thread.
 
2_RollinStoned said:
Perhaps, but it’s still just an irrelevant deflection isn’t it?🤷

The passage clearly speaks about feeding the hungry and specifically tells us that we should “*shelter the oppressed and the homeless” *which is the very definition of refugees.
Click to expand...
And I would agree it is a pro-life issue.
 
2_RollinStoned said:
Perhaps, but it’s still just an irrelevant deflection isn’t it?🤷

The passage clearly speaks about feeding the hungry and specifically tells us that we should “*shelter the oppressed and the homeless” *which is the very definition of refugees.
Click to expand...
Many refugees are oppressed and homeless, but it does not define them.
 
dmelosi said:
Many refugees are oppressed and homeless, but it does not define them.
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Actually that is a good point. It does not define us.
However, anything that attacks human dignity, like oppression and homelessness are life issues.
A nation that kills the unborn will have no mercy for the already born.
 
Son_of_Niall said:
Strike a nerve?
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Anybody can quote scripture…Applying it takes sacrifice. How many refugees are you willing to take into your home? Are you amenable to taking in Muhammad and his 4 child brides and dozen children into your home and sheltering them and feeding them? Jesus’s solution to feeding the 5000 wasn’t to start a government school lunch program.
 
ucfengr said:
Are you amenable to taking in Muhammad and his 4 child brides and dozen children into your home and sheltering them and feeding them?
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
There you go folks.
FEEL the love.
 
JustaServant said:
You really think statements like that helps?
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It was a question, not a statement, and yes, I do think it helps. It’s easy to talk about refugees in the abstract, but these people aren’t abstractions. They’re real people with real customs and real ideals and real values, many of which are incompatible with our own. Do you want to import polygamy, female genital mutilation, and some of the other cultural pathologies of the Muslim world? These are relevant questions when we talk of accepting refugees.
 
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