Pro-life responses to Pro-choice arguments

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I understand preclampsia is very treatable but agree it may require abortion is some early cases (<20 wks). In those cases, the child is going to die anyway
I’ll just say that abortion should never be justified, because it is the direct killing of a child. Doing another medical procedure for trying to save it or if not possible, letting it die naturally, is the moral way to go rather than directly killing it.

Pardon me if you already knew this or something, but I was just making sure.
 
Almost everyone I know is pro-choice and I’ve never, ever, heard them include the above reasons in their argument for legalized abortion.

Really? You’ve had people say these in conversation with you?

.
I would strongly encourage you to consider the pro-life arguments.
 
youtube.com/watch?v=wOlFEJbRIeo

This is 97 minute debate between Trent Horn and a school professor on abortion. Trent debates multiple arguments in the main debate and there is a Q&A section at the end that answers even more.
 
I understand preclampsia is very treatable but agree it may require abortion is some early cases (<20 wks). In those cases, the child is going to die anyway
When would it require abortion? :confused:
 
When would it require abortion? :confused:
Let’s be clear. The vast, vast majority of abortions are not to save the mother’s life, but if not to settle a matter of convenience (“I don’t want a child right now” type reasons, the majority of abortions basically boil down to this), are sometimes for reasons of the mother’s health. I don’t think broadly speaking that abortion for the mother’s life, is the same as doing so for the mother’s health. Abortion should absolutely be the very ultimate of last resorts when the mother is in imminent danger of death (and there is little or no chance of her child surviving either way).

Pre-eclampsia while it can be treatable or manageable (my mother had it when pregnant with my sister, who was born via emergency caesarian about a month prematurely - both are very healthy, 27 years later…), is also very very dangerous; it’s a condition of extremely high blood pressure. It can easily and sometimes rapidly lead to multiple organ failure and death (including the death of the baby). While not every case requires abortion (perhaps if every hospital has every facility and every medical practitioner and every expectant mother knows what to look for, relatively few would require it), some definitely do, on the basis that either two lives will be lost if if is not performed, and “only” one if it is.

When abortion is a matter of life-and-death for the mother as well as her child, and when there is no way to save the life of both (as say happened with my mother and my sister), it should be an available option. It’s pretty much the only time when it should be an available option, of course.
 
Let’s be clear. With 100% of direct abortions, the intent is to end a child’s life. That is be definition, and it is always evil.
 
Here would.be some.of.my responses:
  1. This is the typical pro choice strategy to play with people’s feelings to get them on their side. Do not fall for their traps. Here they want to drag you into placing the child and the mother into a fight of one against the other. Who should have more rights. They want to.set your mind in a way that you see the mother and child relationship.As a dispute which needs to be resolved and.which there must be a winner. A mother child.relationship is not a dispute. When.they try to drag you into this idea bring them.back to the idea that mother and child relationship is not.a competition. Would you say the same about a mother and a newborn? Who has.more rights? The newborn to be taken care of or.the mother.to have a life of her own. We as pro life want both the.child.and the mother to be respected and to help.them.both. it is not.a competition
  2. If we go.by that mentality then we should allow.anything as long as it doesn’t affect you personally. Would you agree to allow domestic.violence because it doesn’t affect you? Or child abuse? Same with drugs. Let people.use drugs and become.addicted as long.As.it is.not.your business. With that mentality then let’s people.murder each other as long as it doesn’t affect me. On another point, pro-choice wants to put it as it is only the woman’s issue hence no else can have a say. That is false. Abortion affects a lot of.people. Affects the father of the child who is shunned by the prochoicers and doesn’t have a say, it affects the grandparents of the child, it affects the woman’s family. The life’s of too many are affected by abortion.
  3. So because someone is.poor that person.doesn’t have a right to live. Under that mentality then let’s kill.all.poor people and eradicate poverty like.that. Another point you can make.Here is that the Catholic church as the biggest charity in.the world is constantly helping poor.mothers. the church helps mother giving them.diapers, clothes, food. The solution for.poverty is to help one another not killing people. Sincerely my answer to any pro choice that comes with the poverty excuse is that the day you get to help half of the poor mothers that we help on the church, then that day you can talk about it.
  4. That one.is.silly. regardless of your personal.reasons for sex, the sexual act will.procreate. That idea is again the anti life strategy of associating procreation from.sex. you can’t dissociate one from.the other. This dissociation.actually causes more abortions as people tend to have more sex irresponsibility.
  5. Yes, the Catholic.church not.only offers plenty of.help to women struggling but offers adoption services and all kinds of help.
  6. Sincerely that is a crazy argument. In fact when.it.comes.to animals.usually is all.the way around. In current society the eggs of.certain animals.have more.value than human life. Just recently look at all the disproportionate outroar over a lion killed in.Africa but society is perfectly rely fine with killing human babies in utero. In.all case pro-choice need to.straighten up.their.priorities.
  7. That is another crazy argument. Birth is a.natural process. Do you know how.Many women give birth.every year? Abortion is a medical procedure and as with any medical procedure is always going to be riskier than a natural.process.
  8. Another pro choice strategy. Using extremely rare situations That will play with people’s feelings. Situations where you really have undecided are extremely rare. Don’t fall into.this. Usually my response would be why are you looking to justify the thousands of abortions that occur simply for.mere sexual irresponsibility with an extremely rare situation?
 
Let’s be clear. The vast, vast majority of abortions are not to save the mother’s life, but if not to settle a matter of convenience (“I don’t want a child right now” type reasons, the majority of abortions basically boil down to this), are sometimes for reasons of the mother’s health. I don’t think broadly speaking that abortion for the mother’s life, is the same as doing so for the mother’s health. Abortion should absolutely be the very ultimate of last resorts when the mother is in imminent danger of death (and there is little or no chance of her child surviving either way).

Pre-eclampsia while it can be treatable or manageable (my mother had it when pregnant with my sister, who was born via emergency caesarian about a month prematurely - both are very healthy, 27 years later…), is also very very dangerous; it’s a condition of extremely high blood pressure. It can easily and sometimes rapidly lead to multiple organ failure and death (including the death of the baby). While not every case requires abortion (perhaps if every hospital has every facility and every medical practitioner and every expectant mother knows what to look for, relatively few would require it), some definitely do, on the basis that either two lives will be lost if if is not performed, and “only” one if it is.

When abortion is a matter of life-and-death for the mother as well as her child, and when there is no way to save the life of both (as say happened with my mother and my sister), it should be an available option. It’s pretty much the only time when it should be an available option, of course.
Pre eclampsia and eclampsia are one if those rare situations in which if the baby doesn’t come out both are dying. However,.preecamplamsia usually presents itself right at the viability point that is why most doctors would.attempt a section and give the child a try at life. I don’t see why in these cases the way should be killing the child when you can perfectly give the child a chance to live. Obviously many premises don’t survive but you are not killing the child, and as I at very rarely you will.hear a doctor suggesting an.abortion for these cases.
 
I understand preclampsia is very treatable but agree it may require abortion is some early cases (<20 wks). In those cases, the child is going to die anyway
Usually preeclampsia occurs around 23 weeks. I am pretty sure that under 20.weeks is pretty much Non existant. My understanding is that it can happen very rarely at 21 and while percentages are low, there have been premises surviving at 21 weeks.
 
Usually preeclampsia occurs around 23 weeks. I am pretty sure that under 20.weeks is pretty much Non existant. My understanding is that it can happen very rarely at 21 and while percentages are low, there have been premises surviving at 21 weeks.
And at 20 weeks, the general treatment is bed rest, medication and close monitoring till the baby can be delivered. The mother should only die if it wasn’t recognized and treated. In either case, abortion doesn’t enter into the primary medical response.
 
Pre eclampsia and eclampsia are one if those rare situations in which if the baby doesn’t come out both are dying. However,.preecamplamsia usually presents itself right at the viability point that is why most doctors would.attempt a section and give the child a try at life. I don’t see why in these cases the way should be killing the child when you can perfectly give the child a chance to live. Obviously many premises don’t survive but you are not killing the child, and as I at very rarely you will.hear a doctor suggesting an.abortion for these cases.
And at 20 weeks, the general treatment is bed rest, medication and close monitoring till the baby can be delivered. The mother should only die if it wasn’t recognized and treated. In either case, abortion doesn’t enter into the primary medical response.
I completely agree. I was meaning that abortion generally is and certainly should be considered only in extremis, in the case of something like pre-eclampsia. In no way for any condition should it be anything other than the option of last resort (such as, if it’s not recognised at the time and becomes very much more serious, as Theo points out).
 
I completely agree. I was meaning that abortion generally is and certainly should be considered only in extremis, in the case of something like pre-eclampsia. In no way for any condition should it be anything other than the option of last resort (such as, if it’s not recognised at the time and becomes very much more serious, as Theo points out).
There are medications for preeclampsia.

One should never kill an innocent that another may live.
 
And at 20 weeks, the general treatment is bed rest, medication and close monitoring till the baby can be delivered. The mother should only die if it wasn’t recognized and treated. In either case, abortion doesn’t enter into the primary medical response.
Exactly!
 
I completely agree. I was meaning that abortion generally is and certainly should be considered only in extremis, in the case of something like pre-eclampsia. In no way for any condition should it be anything other than the option of last resort (such as, if it’s not recognised at the time and becomes very much more serious, as Theo points out).
Well, yes preeclampsia is an extreme.case but there is always alternative treatments.for.preeclampsia so I don’t think abortion is justified under those circumstances because you can treat the condition while giving the child chance at life. Also as Theo mentioned, the standard medical treatment is not.abortion…

I have only known.if.one.case…which was really shocking to.me…in which a doctor treated the preeclampsia with an abortion. The mother was 25 pregnant and the doctor went straight to abortion. It shocked me to no.end because I have a close friend of.mine who also had preeclampsia at 25 weeks and she had an.emergency c section. Her son born at 25 weeks is now a happy 5 year old and you cannot tell that he was a preemie. It broke my heart to think that the.aborted baby could have had a happy life as my friend’s son but he was killed just because of the Doctor’s pro abortionist mentality.
 
Some insist on bringing up the petrie dish hypothetical, as well as saying that abortions have been done for 4,000 years.
 
Some insist on bringing up the petrie dish hypothetical, as well as saying that abortions have been done for 4,000 years.
What do you mean by this?

Because something has been done for 4000 years this means…what, exactly? :confused:
 
It’s saying someone is holding an embryo In Vitro Fertilized in a petrie dish on one hand, and a born child on the other hand, if they fall and you can only get one, which one do you get?

I believe they try to use that in order to “prove” we don’t treat them equally as human beings either.
 
It’s saying someone is holding an embryo In Vitro Fertilized in a petrie dish on one hand, and a born child on the other hand, if they fall and you can only get one, which one do you get?

I believe they try to use that in order to “prove” we don’t treat them equally as human beings either.
If a person chooses the born child and not the embryo in the petrie dish–that doesn’t prove the embryo isn’t human, any more than if you posed the question with a 2 yr old toddler and a 97 year old man. If one chooses to save the 2 yr old, does that mean the 97 year old isn’t human?
 
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