Probing the Parables

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John Carberry

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Probing the Parables, by John Carberry

When defending the faith by refuting heresies or supporting Catholic teachings, a
discussion of Christ’s parables seems conspicuous by its absence. And yet many of these
parables provide a wealth of support for Catholic apologetics. Not only do the parables
support truth, but they often appear to be directly on topic for the concept that is being
argued. Consider several examples.


The Wedding Feast (Faith and Works)


Since Martin Luther broke away from the Catholic Church in the early 1500’s, an issue
that often divides Catholics and protestants is whether faith alone is sufficient to bring
eternal life. No one disputes that God alone is the final judge, but can the wrong actions
of believers end in eternal destruction? The Wedding Feast seems to provide an obvious
answer, yes.

Most Catholics are familiar with Mathew’s rendition of the parable of The Wedding
Feast (Mt 22.1-14). This gospel is read at Mass every three years during the latter half of
ordinary time in the A-Cycle Sunday series. The king sends out servants with invitations
to a wedding feast. Many reject the invitation, so additional invitations are sent out to a
broader selection of potential guests. Many of these reject the invitation also, but several
do show up. Of the guests that do come, a man is rejected because he is not wearing the
proper wedding garment.

What is this wedding garment? While Christ minimized the importance of clothing (Mt
6.25-33, Lk 12.22-28), he clearly emphasized the importance of the symbolism of the
wedding garment. Scripture points out repeatedly that the garment is justice (works).
The saint’s good deeds are likened to the white linen garment of the bride (Rv 19.7-8).
Isaiah compares the garments of salvation and justice to the apparel of the wedding party
(Is 61.10). Other Scripture passages combine the aspects of faith and justice as if they are
inseparable (Is 11.5, Jer 5.1, Bar 5.2, Sir 27.8).

Zechariah’s two shepherd staffs, Favor and Bonds, present these two elements. Favor
represents breaking off the covenant because of the people’s unfaithfulness (Zec 11.10).
The other staff, Bonds, represents the breaking off of the brotherhood of Israel and Judah
(Zec 11.14). Once again, the relationship of faith and brotherhood are represented
symbolically. The price of the shepherd’s life, 30 pieces of silver, was the same as the
ransom for a gored slave (Zec 11.12, Ex 21.32, Mt 26.15-16).
The acceptance of the invitation is a call to faith while the proper garment is the sign of
one’s good works. Both are necessary to partake in the feast because many are called,
few are chosen (Mt 22:14).


The Sower (Is the law absolute or relative?)


Ask a 12 year-old to explain the parable of The Sower and he may look as though he had
been asked to explain quantum mechanics. But ask the same kid what 3 characters
Dorothy met when she walked down the yellow brick road in The Wizard of Oz and he
will yell out the answer faster than he can say his name. There certainly seems to be a
linkage between the symbolism of these two stories. Christ compares the seed that fell on
the footpath, the thorn bush and the rocky ground to the one who does not understand,
care about or endure the challenges that life dishes out (Mt 13.1-23, Mk 4.1-20, Lk 8.4-
15). Dorothy encounters the scarecrow, the tin man and the lion and notices their
shortcomings: no mind, no heart and no courage.

Now ask the father of this 12 year-old to reconcile the seed that fell on the footpath to the
new age concepts of relativism, consequentialism and proportionalism and he may look
as perplexed as if his pre-teen had asked for help on a math word problem. New age is a
term often applied to various theological and philosophical theories that have developed
over the last 50 years. Relativism is a new age concept implying that the law of God is
dependent on the belief of the individual rather than being absolute for all people. In the
encyclical Veritatis Splendor (The Splendor of Truth-1993), Pope John Paul II describes
the terms consequentialism and proportionalism. Consequentialism looks only at the end
result (consequence) of a given action to determine it moral correctness. Proportionalism
is an adoption of the lesser of two evils philosophy. Relativism, consequentialism and
proportionalism all deny the absoluteness of truth and are therefore unacceptable as
Catholic doctrine.

Like the scarecrow without a mind, the seed that fell on the footpath represents the one
who fails to understand the word of God. Just as the pharaoh was able to get his
magicians to replicate several of the miracles performed by God through Moses, the
illusion offered by the secular world is often used to contradict Church teachings. Christ
warned of false prophets and false teachers. The remedy that Christ offered was the
power of the Holy Spirit acting through the Church. When the apostles speak in tongues
on Pentecost Sunday, they overcome the confusion brought on by the sinners at the
Tower of Babel (Gn 11:6-9).

Wisdom begins with desire. Solomon’s request for an understanding heart illustrates
how wisdom can only come from God. The search for wisdom is the first step. This
pursuit is unfortunately made in many mediums in the secular world rather than from its
true origins, Sacred Scripture and the Church. These sources can only be approached
with a humble heart.

The failure to understand involves that most dreaded sin, presumption. The people who
built the Tower of Babel did whatever they presumed (Gn 11.6). King Saul loses his
kingdom after he is presumptuous before the Lord (1 Sm 15.23). King David is quick to
impose a death sentence on the person who committed the actions presented before him
by Nathan the prophet, until Nathan says that the King is the guilty party (2 Sm 12.1-12).
Luke shows how the bad thief is blinded at Christ’s crucifixion when he scoffs at Christ’s
seemingly helpless predicament, while the good thief recognizes God’s holiness (Lk
23.39-43).

One is expected to be certain in his faith, but to question his moral judgments. Instead,
many people express doubt about their faith, yet they feel certain that their actions are
proper. Life issues such as abortion, euthanasia, and contraceptives are considered by the
Church to always be wrong. Yet many consider that there is flexibility regarding these
issues. Materialistic issues such as gluttony, avarice and sloth seem more subjective, and
yet many people decide these issues with a degree of certitude. Only one with fear of the
Lord can recognize the certainty of some issues, while seeing that God alone will decide
other issues. And no one knows how God will curve this test.

The Baltimore Catechism begins by explaining that the purpose of man’s existence is to
know God, love Him and serve Him. It is only when one makes that initial move toward
knowledge that he can love God with his whole mind. Christ’s discussion of the last
judgment indicates that there will be some surprises (Mt 25.37, 44).

President Lincoln noted the inconsistency of relevancy. In the middle of the Civil War,
he reflected upon the concept. “In great contests each party claims to act in accordance
with the will of God. Both may be, and one must be wrong. God can not be for, and
against the same thing at the same time.”


The Barren Fig Tree (Sex and Money)


It wasn’t too many years ago that many would criticize the Church for never speaking
about anything but sex and money. That criticism is not too prevalent today. Both topics
are no longer normal fodder for Sunday homily topics. But that doesn’t mean that the
topics are not front and center on the agenda of many fellow Catholics. As many
Catholics try to rationalize birth control, pre-marital sex, sodomy or homosexuality, the
Church has remained consistent in its viewpoint. And while a hedonistic attitude of live
for today because tomorrow you die often dominates the culture, the stewardship
responsibility regarding material wealth pokes up its head throughout Scripture.

The issues were certainly not overlooked in Christ’s time. The misuse of money and sex
was the downfall of the prodigal son, who squandered his inheritance on prostitutes and
wasteful spending (Lk 15.13, 30). Christ often referred to the harlots and the publicans,
or the tax collectors. The Jews perceived these people as the lowest on the moral
spectrum. The harlots were judged by the people to be sexually promiscuous, and the tax
collectors represented the greedy misers who loved money. The harlot wasted her sexual
powers in pursuit of money while her customers wasted their money in pursuit of
unproductive and illicit sexual pleasure.

The Barren Fig Tree (Lk 13.6-9) illustrates the mandate to produce. This order can apply
to many concepts, but the fruit of sexuality is children, and the fruit of money is social
justice. While many will argue that the list of do not commandments never addresses
these non-adulterous, sexual sins, one can look to God’s first command to Adam (and
later Noah and Jacob) to be fruitful and multiply (Gn 1.28, 9.1, 35.11). In fact, this
command even preceded the forbidden fruit command, the disobedience of which
produced the original sin. The Old Testament also was not silent regarding one’s
physical possessions. God commands Moses to remember the alien, the widow and the
orphan (Dt 10.18-19, 14.28-29, 26.12-13).

In the Old Testament, the Israelites annually celebrated three major feasts, Passover,
Pentecost and The Feast of the Fruit Harvest (Ex 34.18-24). Passover was the
predecessor of the Pascal Celebration, which concludes with Easter and the beginning of
eternal life. Pentecost, in the New Testament, represents the birth of the Church. It does
not seem coincidental that like Christmas, the Feast of the Fruit Harvest was held at the
end of the year. Or in the words of Elizabeth to Mary, blessed is the fruit of your womb
(Lk 1.42).

The creation of life originates with sexual intercourse and bears fruit when one brings a
son or daughter of God into the world, a brother or sister of Jesus Christ, and a temple of
the Holy Spirit. Thus, anyone who hears the word of God and follows it is likened to not
only Christ’s brother and sister, but also to his mother (Lk 8.21, Mt 12.46-50, Mk 3.31-
35).

The stewardship responsibility of money is also developed throughout Scripture. Jacob’s
son, Joseph, demonstrated the concept of stewardship. He showed his loyalty as a
steward to his Egyptian master, Potiphar (Gn 39.1-6), his chief jailer in prison (Gn 39.21-
23), and finally to Pharaoh himself (Gn 41.39-57). Christ was not silent on this issue
either. The Rich Man and Lazarus (Lk 16.19-31), The Rich Fool (Lk 12.16-21), and the
Talents (Mk 25.14-30, Lk 19.11-27) parables address issues of money, wealth and
abilities. They are easily compared to three of the seven deadly sins, gluttony, avarice
and sloth. What is the cure for these ills? Give alms and everything becomes clean (Lk
11.41). Like the poor woman who gave her last bread to Elijah (1 Kgs 17.7-16) or the
poor widow who gave her last coins to the temple treasury as Christ watched (Mk 12.41-
44, Lk 21.1-4), one must trust in God, not mammon.

God provides two types of gifts, some are reserved for exclusive purposes and others are
to be shared. One is expected to worship only one God, but to share one’s faith with
others. However, often one would rather worship, desire and trust in many things other
than God, while keeping his faith to himself. One is expected to remain chaste (reserving
his sexuality for his spouse) while sharing his physical possessions. Instead, many keep
their possessions to themselves while sharing their sexuality.

When does the responsibility end? Never according to Christ. We are unprofitable
servants, doing only what is expected of us (Lk 17.7-10).

One of Senator Robert Kennedy’s reflections seems to summarize the divine wisdom of
this parable. “There are those that look at things the way they are, and ask why? I dream
of things that never were and ask why not.


The Prodigal Son (Is there really a mortal sin? Is Confession necessary?)


Ever want to start up a stormy discussion among Catholics? Bring up the distinction
between mortal and venial sins as a topic. Then suggest some examples. It is rare that a
common consensus will be found. The Sacrament of Reconciliation is also a topic that
often divides a group. Some background information regarding these topics is first in
order.

The Old Testament uses the physical death sentence to emphasize the seriousness of
certain sins. Adam and Eve brought on death by their pride and disobedience. The
people at the time of Noah and during Abraham’s time in Sodom and Gomorrah (Gn
19.1-22) were destroyed because of their evil actions. God takes the life of Onan for
wasting his seed (Gn 38.8-10). God killed the sons of Aaron (Lv 10.1-2) and the sons of
Eli (1 Sm 2.12-17, 22-36, 4.11) because they disrespected the rules of the priesthood.
Similarly, Mosaic Law imposed the death penalty for sins such as blasphemy, murder as
well as many various sexual sins.

The New Testament de-emphasized these physical judgments, but it stressed the spiritual
death that one would face for certain evil actions or non-actions. The serious crimes of
the Old Testament therefore were not trivialized, but rather the consequences became
even more terrifying. Christ alludes to this fatal outcome in many of His parables such as
The Wheat and the Weeds, the Sower, The Wedding Feast, The Rich Man and Lazarus,
The Rich Fool, The Talents and others. In Christ’s discussion about the final judgment
(Mt 25.31-46), He emphasizes how the inaction of many will lead to their ultimate
destruction.

As the final judge of one’s actions, will Christ show mercy or justice? The deadly sins of
pride, avarice, envy, wrath, lust, gluttony, and sloth all seem to be questions of
moderation. No one knows exactly where the line will be drawn between pride and
courage, avarice and self-preservation, envy and rightful desire, anger and justice, lust
and love, gluttony and nourishment, or sloth and rest. While the line may be obscure, the
cause and effect can often be more obvious. Pride blinds, anger devours, avarice
overwhelms, gluttony consumes, sloth reduces and lust and envy betray.

The Sacrament of Confession can be likened to its Old Testament predecessor, the Day of
Atonement or Yom Kippur (Lv 16.1-34, 23.26-32). This annual, one-day ritual was the
most solemn of the Israelite holy days (Lv 16.31). The Israelite people were required to
fast and do no work (Lv 16.29), and to provide an offering of two goats. The high priest
offered one goat up in sacrifice and then laid both hands on the second goat’s head (the
scapegoat) and confessed the sins of the people of Israel. The goat was then led out into
the desert carrying back to Satan (Lv 16.8-10) the sins of the Israelites (Lv 16.20-22).
Only a successor to Aaron, a high priest, could make the atonement (Lv 16.32-33). It
was the only day of the year that the high priest could enter the holy of holies, inside the
veil of the sanctuary (Lv 16.2-5).
The life of Jesus Christ reflects the Israelite Day of Atonement. At the beginning of His
ministry, Christ is physically driven out into the desert (like the scapegoat) where He
confronts Satan. At the end of His ministry, Christ is offered up in the divine sacrifice on
the cross.

Through Christ’s death and by His resurrection, the victory of salvation springs forth
from the Spirit of His own baptism. Christ commissioned His disciples to baptize all
nations (Mt 28.19) and to forgive sins through the sacrament of Penance. “Receive ye
the Holy Ghost. Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins
you shall retain, they are retained” (Jn 20.23). Although similar to the Old Testament in
requiring confession (Lv 16.21) and a priest’s intervention (Lv 16.32), this new
sacrament was unique in that the priests were delegated the power to forgive or retain
sins.

Often linked, the physical and spiritual works were similar, and they were brought about
through the intervention of a holy person. The physical feeding and healing were
symbolic of God’s authority over both the physical and the spiritual. Since authority was
delegated through the prophets of the Old Testament and the priests of the New
Testament, signs appear in both. The poor widow is fed when she encounters Elijah and
Naaman is cured after he obeys Elisha’s command (1 Kg 17.7-16, 2 Kg 5.1-15, Lk 4.25-
27). However, both of these gentiles first had to show that they placed their trust in not
only God, but also in the person acting in God’s behalf. In the beginning of Mark’s
Gospel, Christ continues this human and divine interplay. After curing the leper, Christ
orders the man to show himself to a priest with the prescribed offering for cleansing (Mk
1.40-44). Next, the paralytic is healed both spiritually and physically by Christ to
demonstrate this authority over both the spiritual and the physical (Mk 2.1-12, Mt 9.1-8,
Lk 5.17-26). Then Christ discusses how only the sick require a physician, implying that
the spiritually sick are in most need of ministry (Mk 2.17). Likewise, the sacraments that
nourish and heal (Holy Eucharist and Reconciliation) must be administered through a
consecrated priest.

Like the Sower parable, the Prodigal Son (Lk 15.11-32) covers those three essential
requirements: knowledge, love and courage. He recognizes the seriousness of his
mistake, he has a change in heart, and he returns to his father and confesses his
wrongdoing. Like the Prodigal Son and the Israelites in the desert, sin affects both God
and man (Lk 15.21, Nm 21.7). The priest acts in place of God, and like the father in the
Prodigal Son parable, he looks only to whether the penitent understands the nature of the
sin, desires to mend his ways and acknowledges the wrong actions.

John Carberry is the author of Parables: Catholic Apologetics Through Sacred Scripture
(2003) and Sacraments: Signs, Symbols and Significance (2023).
 

Attachments

The Parables of the Gospel, by Leopold Fonck, S.J.
I can only wish that I had the knowledge of Hebrew and Greek to probe them more deeply. But your insight is a great help.
 
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John, there is a misunderstanding of Luther's writing regarding faith alone, on which there is now agreement. You can read an explanation by Catholic Answers Magazine here: https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/justification
The basic idea of Lutherans is that when Christians pursue a faithful life complying with the teachings, in particular the sermon of the Mount, they do so because of God's grace and not because of their own goodness. The doctrine of Justification by Faith Alone seeks to reflect the awesomeness of God's sovereignty.
Catholics highlight free will, Reform theologians avoid using the term, probably because of historical reasons. They insist that God always makes the first move, saying we accept God's invitation- (for prayer, to follow our path, etc.). However, Lutherans signed the agreement with the Catholic Church in 1999, meaning that they no longer object to our use of the term. In fact, the joint declaration states: “The working of God’s grace does not exclude human action: God effects everything, the willing and the achievement, therefore we are called to strive (cf. Phil. 2:12 ff)”
Regarding your statement that "faith alone is sufficient to bring eternal life" in the writing of Martin Luther, Read part 6 "Assurance of Salvation" in the article of Catholic Answers, which concludes: "So the two sides are really in agreement-assurance is possible, but not infallible assurance (barring special revelation). Thus the Joint Declaration affirms: “We confess together that the faithful can rely on the mercy and promises of God."
 
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John, there is a misunderstanding of Luther's writing regarding faith alone. You can read an explanation by Catholic Answers Magazine here: https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/justification
The basic idea of Lutherans is that when Christian pursue a faithful live complying with the teachings, in particular the sermon of the Mount, they do so because of God's grace and not because of their own goodness. The doctrine of Justification by Faith alone seeks to reflect the awesomeness of God's sovereignty.
Catholics highlight free will, Reform theologians avoid using the term, probably because of historical reasons. They insist that God always makes the first move, saying we accept God's invitation- (for prayer, to follow our path, etc.). However, Lutherans signed the agreement with the Catholic Church in 1997, meaning that they no longer object to our use of the term.
God already made the first move in His act of creation. As to faith alone, how many versions of it exist? Will I live long enough to probe them all? Then justification, salvation, redemption, atonement, etc.etc.etc. An outsider would get the impression that we are orphans. The reform re-framed and redefined many settled articles of faith. I wonder why.
 
God already made the first move in His act of creation. As to faith alone, how many versions of it exist? Will I live long enough to probe them all? Then justification, salvation, redemption, atonement, etc.etc.etc. An outsider would get the impression that we are orphans. The reform re-framed and redefined many settled articles of faith. I wonder why.
I think you need to talk with Pope John Paul II about it, since he signed the agreement. In his absence, contact Catholic Answers. All of them, would have authority above your humble opinion. But more important, you are completely missing the point. In 1994, some years ahead of the agreement, Pope John Paul II wrote the book "Crossing the Threshold of Hope". In Chapter two, "Why are Christians divided" he wonders "Why did the Holy Spirit allowed the division?" (emerging from the reform) : "Will not the divisions ultimately allow the Church to discover the multiplicity of riches contained in the Gospel and in the Redemption of Christ? Perhaps these riches could not have been discovered otherwise." Have more faith and go around less like doubting Thomas sticking fingers in open wounds.
 
I think you need to talk with Pope John Paul II about it, since he signed the agreement. In his absence, contact Catholic Answers. All of them, would have authority above your humble opinion. But more important, you are completely missing the point. In 1994, some years ahead of the agreement, Pope John Paul II wrote the book "Crossing the Threshold of Hope". In Chapter two, "Why are Christians divided" he wonders "Why did the Holy Spirit allowed the division?" (emerging from the reform) : "Will not the divisions ultimately allow the Church to discover the multiplicity of riches contained in the Gospel and in the Redemption of Christ? Perhaps these riches could not have been discovered otherwise." Have more faith and go around less like doubting Thomas sticking fingers in open wounds.
Catholic doctrine did not and cannot change. We know why God allows division! It's right in scripture:
1 Corinthians 11:18-19

"For first of all I hear that when you come together in the church, there are schisms among you; and in part I believe it. For there must be also heresies: that they also, who are approved, may be made manifest among you."

I would say that is why.
 
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Catholic doctrine did not and cannot change. We know why God allows division! It's right in scripture:

I would say that is why.
Above, I added quotes from the article in Catholic Answers Magazine which are relevant to John's posting. They may give you an idea of the discussion. I suspect, from your statements, that you have not read it. As far as I remember, the Catholic Doctrine is based not just on Scripture, but on the teachings of scripture coming from the Church. Citing Pope John Paul II, who definitely read Corinthians 11:18-19, and would have a strong grasp of Catholic doctrine is correct. This is most disturbing. I shared a good article from a respected source- this forum comes from Catholic Answers. I think the article and the Joint Agreement on justification is informative for John's writing.
Why are you so aggressive? You can't know more than the Pope. For sure you are less inspired than the commission responsible for the Agreement, even the Lutheran members. For example you say "God already made the first move in His act of creation" Exactly, God the creator is the base for the sovereignty of God, as Luther rightfully understood, and the belief that God moves first as I described it above streams exactly from it. Really, you should read the article, you would gain some respect. As John Paul II said, (repetitions seems necessary): "Will not the divisions ultimately allow the Church to discover the multiplicity of riches contained in the Gospel and in the Redemption of Christ? Perhaps these riches could not have been discovered otherwise."
 
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I play defense. What I note: You suddenly appear out of nowhere on a Catholic forum and give no introduction. Then, as a supposed Christian, you "inform" a scholarly subject by demeaning the intellect, education and/or diligence of the poster. Combined with that, you cherry-pick sources out of context, in contra, and begin a sales pitch for relativism. I suggest you read Pope Benedict XVI on the dictatorship of relativism.
Since you are Christian, it is good to follow Philippians 2:1-3 and consider other Christians to be superior to yourself.

Peace and good.
 
I play defense. What I note: You suddenly appear out of nowhere on a Catholic forum and give no introduction. Then, as a supposed Christian, you "inform" a scholarly subject by demeaning the intellect, education and/or diligence of the poster. Combined with that, you cherry-pick sources out of context, in contra, and begin a sales pitch for relativism. I suggest you read Pope Benedict XVI on the dictatorship of relativism.
Since you are Christian, it is good to follow Philippians 2:1-3 and consider other Christians to be superior to yourself.

Peace and good.
This personal attack in unwarranted.
 
This is a good discussion, and I just ask that all concerned conduct it in a charitable fashion, assuming one another's good faith and good will.
 
This is a good discussion, and I just ask that all concerned conduct it in a charitable fashion, assuming one another's good faith and good will.
po18guy wrote: "Then, as a supposed Christian you "inform" a scholarly subject by demeaning the intellect, education and or diligence of the poster. Combined with that, you cherry-pick sources out of context, in contra, and begin a sales pitch for relativism."
1. "supposed Christian" is not a respectful way of addressing me
2. " by demeaning the intellect, education and or diligence " that is inaccurate, I did not do such thing.
Instead:
1. I addressed a misunderstanding regarding salvation in the Lutheran beliefs in the draft by John Carberry. Usually people circulate drafts before publication, the feedback helps to improve their work.
2. In doing so, I provided appropriate references: i) an analysis on Catholic Answers Magazine on the Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification (Catholic Answers is the organization this site came from) ii) a Book written by Pope John Paul II published in 1994 under whose papacy the Declaration was signed which reflects his thinking on ecumenism, which probably inspired the commission of Catholics and Lutherans working on the Declaration.
I cited from both sources, to summarize the key reasoning pertinent to "Justification by Faith Alone" and salvation and how it affects Catholics ("Will not the divisions ultimately allow the Church to discover the multiplicity of riches contained in the Gospel and in the Redemption of Christ? Perhaps these riches could not have been discovered otherwise.")
Do you see anything incorrect in the procedure? Did i misquote or misunderstand the analysis in Catholic Answers Magazine?
Regarding interaction with po18guy, I wrote : "Have more faith and go around less like doubting Thomas sticking fingers in open wounds" I can produce material for this as well, basically the call for unity of Christians considers the division a wound, as it would not be the wish of Christ. Furthermore, Catholics are exported to be open to "our Christian Brothers"
His reaction was to accuse me of relativism. In the absence of errors on my understanding of the writings I cite (I ask above about it), all I wrote is based on analysis by authoritative sources, po18guy is really accusing Catholic Answers, Pope John Paul II and the members of the Vatican committee producing the Joint Declaration of relativism.
I have neither intention nor will to enter a debate with someone that behaves so aggressively. I also have no intention of being bullied into conforming. I stand by my post, while I am open to respectful and thoughtful comments.
 
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Perceptions vary as to what is appropriate discourse and what is not. We live in a very diverse society, where people come from all different backgrounds and bring all kinds of perspectives, including those regarding etiquette. We all need to be mindful of this, in interacting together on a forum such as this.

Just a word to the wise, all the way around.
 
Perceptions vary as to what is appropriate discourse and what is not. We live in a very diverse society, where people come from all different backgrounds and bring all kinds of perspectives, including those regarding etiquette. We all need to be mindful of this, in interacting together on a forum such as this.

Just a word to the wise, all the way around.
That may well be, but inaccurate statements are subject to probing, and do not depend on perception. I respectfully request that po18guy do not address my postings. I will not interact with him.
 
John, there is a misunderstanding of Luther's writing regarding faith alone, on which there is now agreement. You can read an explanation by Catholic Answers Magazine here: https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/justification
The basic idea of Lutherans is that when Christians pursue a faithful life complying with the teachings, in particular the sermon of the Mount, they do so because of God's grace and not because of their own goodness. The doctrine of Justification by Faith Alone seeks to reflect the awesomeness of God's sovereignty.
I am not certain this even applies to what was being written about.
Lutheranism is not the topic of discussion in the OP.

Why are you trying to discuss the finer points of Lutheran theology in response to an article on how the parables reflect Catholic teachings?
 
I am not certain this even applies to what was being written about.
Lutheranism is not the topic of discussion in the OP.

Why are you trying to discuss the finer points of Lutheran theology in response to an article on how the parables reflect Catholic teachings?
When introducing his analysis on the Parable of the Wedding Feast, John Carberry writes:
"Since Martin Luther broke away from the Catholic Church in the early 1500’s, an issue
that often divides Catholics and protestants is whether faith alone is sufficient to bring
eternal life.
No one disputes that God alone is the final judge, but can the wrong actions
of believers end in eternal destruction?"
My posting addressed directly the bold part in the above quote. With the signing of the agreement on Justification between Catholics and Lutherans in 1999 the issue of the division (John refers too) has been mended by a common understanding.
Part 6 in the article in Catholic Answers, titled "Assurance of Salvation" explains it and concludes "So the two sides are really in agreement-assurance is possible, but not infallible assurance (barring special revelation). Thus the Joint Declaration affirms: “We confess together that the faithful can rely on the mercy and promises of God."
Why don't you take the time to read the article in Catholic Answers Magazine? It is detailed in Catholic Doctrine and history.

Perhaps John Carberry brought up Lutheranism when analyzing "The Wedding Feast" thinking that it may help the understanding finer points of Catholic soteriology. See for example, in the article in Catholic Answers, that last passage of the last part "Consequences for Apologetics" it states:

"Consequently, it is better for the apologist to be conciliatory on justification. This will have a number of positive effects. It will keep our language in conformity with the language of the Church. It will force us to learn the Church’s theology of justification in greater depth, rather than simply repeating stock formulas. And, most importantly, it will make our message more appealing to Protestants who might be interested in converting."





Reply
 
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Why don't you take the time to read the article in Catholic Answers Magazine?
Two things here.
1 - You are making a pretty big assumption that people are unfamiliar with the article or that I specifically have ignored it.
Neither is the case. I simply do not believe it is on topic.

2 - Same question as before since you did, in fact, ignore it.
Why are you trying to discuss Lutheran theology when the original post had to do with the parables reflecting Catholic teaching?

I am not interested in Lutheranism.
I am interested in hearing how the parables inform my faith.
 
Two things here.
1 - You are making a pretty big assumption that people are unfamiliar with the article or that I specifically have ignored it.
Neither is the case. I simply do not believe it is on topic.

2 - Same question as before since you did, in fact, ignore it.
Why are you trying to discuss Lutheran theology when the original post had to do with the parables reflecting Catholic teaching?

I am not interested in Lutheranism.
I am interested in hearing how the parables inform my faith.

I did not ignored your second question.
You wrote in your first posting: "I am not certain this even applies to what was being written about." In the second posting you wrote: on 1."I simply do not believe it is on topic" and then you wrote on 2. "Why are you trying to discuss Lutheran theology when the original post had to do with the parables reflecting Catholic Teaching"

I will answer it again:
I addressed a misconception in John's posting- it his the posting that introduced Lutheran beliefs, making it an issue on this thread. John Carberry made in a topic of this thread. Did you see/read that explanation in my response the first time?

Answer to 1, part: "You are making a pretty big assumption that people are unfamiliar with the article or that I specifically have ignored it. Neither is the case. I simply do not believe it is on topic."

(i) "I simply do not believe it is on topic."
Any thoughtful reader would see that the Catholic Answers article is a response to the words of John Carberry regarding Lutheran beliefs and the division of the Church. Therefore, it applies to what he wrote. (so it is on topic)

(ii) "You are making a pretty big assumption that people are unfamiliar with the article or that I specifically have ignored it."
I made no assumption on whether you had red the article. I talked about taking the time to read (that is being a thoughtful reader and working through the analysis)


If after reading the article and John's words ("Since Martin Luther broke away from the Catholic Church in the early 1500’s, an issue
that often divides Catholics and protestants is whether faith alone is sufficient to bring eternal life. ") you fail to see the connection between the two, then probably, rereading the article in a focused way might be fruitful.

If you still have problems understanding it - the article is strong and detailed on the Catholic doctrine- perhaps asking (Catholic) questions here (Catholic Questions) may be of assistance. Usually, by working on a good question that properly reflect what you do not understand is the first step towards gaining that knowledge.

However, on the other hand, if the topic does not interest you, then let it go. This site, I have been told, has great diversity of members, you will find other topics that will interest you.
Be respectful of the interests of other Catholics. The doctrine issue is interesting to John Carberry, and to Jimmy Akin, the author in Catholic Answers, and to me, and perhaps other readers.
 
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"It's not me, it is you." never wins approval of others.
It does, however, breed ill will where there was never any intended.

If one wants to discuss Lutheranism, there is always the option to build a new thread on that topic.
If one wishes to hijack a thread discussing the parables and support of the Faith, there is always going to be opposition.

When defending the faith by refuting heresies or supporting Catholic teachings, a
discussion of Christ’s parables seems conspicuous by its absence. And yet many of these
parables provide a wealth of support for Catholic apologetics. Not only do the parables
support truth, but they often appear to be directly on topic for the concept that is being
argued.
It would appear on first read here that the article is going to address Catholic teachings and support lent to them through the parables.
I do have a question however for John...
In the Old Testament, the Israelites annually celebrated three major feasts, Passover,
Pentecost and The Feast of the Fruit Harvest (Ex 34.18-24).
I was unaware that Pentecost was an Old Testament feast. I always considered it a birthday for the church, but not relating to any particular feast of the old. Can you advise?
 
I hate to have to do it, but I am going to have to lock this thread, at least temporarily. People of good will can legitimately disagree upon many things, including whether a line of discussion is germane to the thread or not, and how a thread should proceed. I'm not going to try and mediate that, but I have gotten several reports on this thread, and I'm not going to come down on one side or the other.

I'm not sure that Mr Carberry's fine essays are intended to spark such strenuous debate. He does an excellent job.
 
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