Problems w/ Atheism

[yankee_doodle]

I guess I’m going to have to quote scripture since you’ve obviously forgotten what it means to be a Christian, Yankee:

“Dear friends, let us love one another because love comes from God. Whoever loves is a child of God and knows God. Whoever does not love does not know God, for God is love. And God showed his love for us by sending his only Son into the world, so that we might have life through him. This is what love is: it is not that we have loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the means by which our sins are forgiven.”

"Dear friends, if this is how God loved us, then we should love one as other. No one has ever seen God, but if we love one another, God lives in union with us, and his love is made perfect in us. . . God is love, and those who live in love live in union with God and God lives in union with them. Love is made perfect in us in order that we may have courage on the Judgment Day; and we will have it because our life in this world is the same as Christ’s. There is no fear in love; perfect love drives out all fear. So then, love has not been made perfect in anyone who is afraid, because fear has to do with punishment."

"We love because God first loved us. If we say we love God, but hate others we are liars. For we cannot love God, whom we have not seen, if we do not love others, whom we have seen. **The commandment that Christ has given us is this: whoever loves God must love others also. ** 1 John 4: 7-21

to be continued. . .

Yes you do need to continue, because if you notice I didn’t deny Jesus enumerated a law of love (kind of flaky if you ask me … but fortunately for you guys few people people ask me ).

Nevertheless the CC still maintains opposition to homosexual relations, no matter how loving the partners claim to be (unless I missed a really big newsflash)? This is of course just one example, but my point is in practical reality love is not viewed as the only rule of Christianity (even if that is what the new testament states).

 

[josie_L]

The worse thing is you can’t even see how absurd your double standard is. Christianity is peddled on every street corner, our television sets, and your churches and chapels are strewn throughout every town, city, and village in the US (and to a lesser extent the rest of the world). Ads for local church services appear in every newspaper here in the US (at least weekly) and indeed every medium of communication we have in this country (and I suspect abroad as well) is saturated with Christianity.

Have you ever seen a street corner atheist evangelist? Are there any atheist television channels?

Of course not. I guess it wouldn’t make much marketing sense, since we probably wouldn’t have many repeat customers (once most people figure out religion is nonsense – they probably wouldn’t have much incentive to continue watching our channel) … but if we really wanted to, we probably could finish religion off pretty quickly (or at least reduce it to the status of a small bunch of cultists who no longer occupy the mainstream in our society).

Yet the intelligentsia continue to spare religion, because we know not all people can handle the truth

At some point though society will move past ancient religion and superstition (and evolve to the point of being well adjusted and even happy … atheists). Unless something cataclysmic disturbs the momentum; this is the direction western society is headed. Beware, there are some religious zealots who are so fanatical, they hope something cataclysmic will happen to alter our current momentum (and if given the chance they might even contributed to it). This is how insane religion can be (and why I say religion can be, and in many cases is, dangerous).

Even if they “hope” something cataclysmic happens they cannot make it happen, no one knows when Jesus will return (I believe you are refering to Christian fundamentalists). Furthermore, society is not saturated in Christian thought and/or belief as our present culture is a testament of moral relativism which is a far different thing than the moral absolutes preached in the Bible and/or by the Church. Moreover, the “Intelligentsia” has been used in the past to annihilate Christianity, and it failed, therefore, theists will always be around as faith in God cannot be destroyed.

 

[josie_L]

Yes you do need to continue, because if you notice I didn’t deny Jesus enumerated a law of love (kind of flaky if you ask me … but fortunately for you guys few people ask me ).

Nevertheless the CC still maintains opposition to homosexual relations, no matter how loving the partners claim to be (unless I missed a really big newsflash)? This is of course just one example, but my point is in practical reality love is not viewed as the only rule of Christianity (even if that is what the new testament states).

Yankee, the only law we have is the law of love, in fact, Jesus pretty much encompassed all his teachings in two short commandments, “love God with all your heart, mind and soul” and “love your neighbour”. That’s it. Furthermore, the CC does not oppose homosexual relations (they can do whatever they please whenever they please and get the benefits of marriage within civil unions), as much as the redefinition of marriage which the Church will not or rather cannot have changed for reasons apparent to those who view marriage as a sacrament (imparts graces) meant to unify husband and wife (and future children) to God. Marriage is a reflection of the Holy Trinity.

 

[srferdave]

Why do you spend your time debating atheist sounds like the pot is calling the kettle black. See atheist need to take a stand for what they believe in. Telling me that I am going to burn in hell is like me telling you a sick insult it is not called for. I live in Las Vegas this is supposed to be sin city. There is billboard that says “heaven or hell your choice” to make it worse they took down a picture of a sexy stripper to put up the new sign. To me the sign says go to hell if your a atheist. How would you feel if I put up a sign that said God is dead or do not believe in fairy tales where something that was beautiful was?

I never said that you are going to hell. That is for God to decide only.

My point was that there is nothing to motivate you to debate with Christians other than your own interest or if there is something deep inside you that is telling you that we are right. We have much more than just interest motivating us. God asks us in many ways to evangelize. And the Bible tells us to be prepared to defend ourselves.

 

[srferdave]

Well, the problem is that I can’t prove there is no Bigfoot and yet I don’t believe in Bigfoot.

Do I have “faith” there’s no Bigfoot? I mean, no actual evidence of Bigfoot has ever been produced – despite what a few Bigfoot believers claim. Certainly, I would start believing in Bigfoot if any actual evidence appeared, but until then, I do not believe in its existence.

I would not say that I’m rejecting the claim of Bigfoot on faith – I would say that I have good, evidence-based reasons for rejecting the claim.

You can’t compare big foot to God. What we claim God to be is not what big foot believers claim big foot to be. There is theological and philosophical proof for the existence of God. There is none for big foot.

 

[josie_L]

Yes you do need to continue, because if you notice I didn’t deny Jesus enumerated a law of love (kind of flaky if you ask me … but fortunately for you guys few people people ask me ).

Nevertheless the CC still maintains opposition to homosexual relations, no matter how loving the partners claim to be (unless I missed a really big newsflash)? This is of course just one example, but my point is in practical reality love is not viewed as the only rule of Christianity (even if that is what the new testament states).

This is what you said in post # 215:

“You can probably frame it as consistent with the law of love in a theoretical sense, but that’s not the practical reality. **In reality religious people believe in judgment, believe they’re being “watched” by a god, and try to behave a certain way because that’s how they believe god wants them to behave.”

“It’s the old carrot and the stick, reward and punishment … whereas I think integrity with no false pretenses is more probably genuine.**”

The reason I quoted that particular scripture was to highlight the fact that you’re wrong in stating that we Christians follow God’s commandments (which can be summarized in two phrases) because we have to, or because we’re being watched, or because we’re afraid, or because . . . the fact of the matter Yankee is that we are compelled by love (through the Holy Spirit) to act as we do. As scripture states, perfect love casts out fear, and therefore we need not worry about God “watching” us or judging us for God is a merciful God (who wants us to trust Him completely). The parable of the Prodigal Son is a wonderful example of this.

p.s. You don’t understand what being Christian truly means, even if you once were one.

 

[yankee_doodle]

the fact of the matter Yankee is that we are compelled by love (through the Holy Spirit) to act as we do

Yeah, but being compelled by the spirit of a god is fiction, not reality. In the real world – it’s superstition.

 

[josie_L]

Yeah, but being compelled by the spirit of a god is fiction, not reality. In the real world – it’s superstition.

Love is always love no matter what our differences may be.

 

[humble_maid]

The worse thing is you can’t even see how absurd your double standard is. Christianity is peddled on every street corner, our television sets, and your churches and chapels are strewn throughout every town, city, and village in the US (and to a lesser extent the rest of the world). Ads for local church services appear in every newspaper here in the US (at least weekly) and indeed every medium of communication we have in this country (and I suspect abroad as well) is saturated with Christianity.

Have you ever seen a street corner atheist evangelist? Are there any atheist television channels?

Of course not. I guess it wouldn’t make much marketing sense, since we probably wouldn’t have many repeat customers (once most people figure out religion is nonsense – they probably wouldn’t have much incentive to continue watching our channel) … but if we really wanted to, we probably could finish religion off pretty quickly (or at least reduce it to the status of a small bunch of cultists who no longer occupy the mainstream in our society).

Yet the intelligentsia continue to spare religion, because we know not all people can handle the truth

At some point though society will move past ancient religion and superstition (and evolve to the point of being well adjusted and even happy … atheists). Unless something cataclysmic disturbs the momentum; this is the direction western society is headed. Beware, there are some religious zealots who are so fanatical, they hope something cataclysmic will happen to alter our current momentum (and if given the chance they might even contributed to it). This is how insane religion can be (and why I say religion can be, and in many cases is, dangerous).

Fanaticism is dangerous on all levels be it religious, or atheistic.:eek
I cannot see what you see because where I come from, none of that religious peddling is happening. Sure once in a while you will get the occasional JW coming to your door; otherwise people don’t care about religion. You would fit right in.

 

[humble_maid]

Yankee, the only law we have is the law of love, in fact, Jesus pretty much encompassed all his teachings in two short commandments, “love God with all your heart, mind and soul” and “love your neighbour”. That’s it. Furthermore, the CC does not oppose homosexual relations (they can do whatever they please whenever they please and get the benefits of marriage within civil unions), as much as the redefinition of marriage which the Church will not or rather cannot have changed for reasons apparent to those who view marriage as a sacrament (imparts graces) meant to unify husband and wife (and future children) to God. Marriage is a reflection of the Holy Trinity.

Very well said, sis. Luv ya.

 

[yankee_doodle]

Yankee, the only law we have is the law of love, in fact, Jesus pretty much encompassed all his teachings in two short commandments, “love God with all your heart, mind and soul” and “love your neighbour”. That’s it. Furthermore, the CC does not oppose homosexual relations (they can do whatever they please whenever they please and get the benefits of marriage within civil unions), as much as the redefinition of marriage which the Church will not or rather cannot have changed for reasons apparent to those who view marriage as a sacrament (imparts graces) meant to unify husband and wife (and future children) to God. Marriage is a reflection of the Holy Trinity.

The CC doesn’t mind when gay people have sex? That’s a big bunch of elephant dung. Oh … I wasn’t talking about marriage, the church believes gay sex is sinful right, so the big man with the funny hat nips it in the bud way before the proposal (look it up in your catechism before you answer).

Two dudes doing the wandango is a big no no … hey don’t get me wrong, I don’t want to be invited to the wedding ceremony, I just don’t care if it happens

 

[srferdave]

The CC doesn’t mind when gay people have sex? That’s a lie. I wasn’t talking about marriage, the church believes gay sex is sinful does it not (look up your catechism before you answer)

Two dudes doing the wandango is a big no no (according to the vicar of christ, the chair of peter, the holiest of the smoliest … just say no John and Pete, insert loud bass drum here).

You are correct. Homosexual relations are a grave evil. The Church is not going to give in to the secular world to allow a redefinition of marriage. The Church is not going to tell homosexuals what they can and cannot do. If they want to have relations that is there decision. However, the Church will tell them that it is wrong. I think this was the point the poster was trying to make.

 

[yankee_doodle]

You are correct. Homosexual relations are a grave evil. The Church is not going to give in to the secular world to allow a redefinition of marriage. The Church is not going to tell homosexuals what they can and cannot do. If they want to have relations that is there decision. However, the Church will tell them that it is wrong. I think this was the point the poster was trying to make.

It didn’t sound like the point Josie was making … but what you’re saying here sounds like what the churches position actually is.

I guess the secular world doesn’t care (although I have run across atheists who don’t like gay people and don’t support gay marriage, so the secular world probably isn’t as uniform as you believe). Nevertheless I see no logical reason to deny gays the right to marry, as far as the state is concerned. If a Christian denomination doesn’t believe in gay marriage they have every right to deny the couples request to marry.

Religion has no place influencing our legal system (it goes against the tenor of our constitution).

 

[srferdave]

It didn’t sound like the point Josie was making … but what you’re saying here sounds like what the churches position actually is.

I guess the secular world doesn’t care (although I have run across atheists who don’t like gay people and don’t support gay marriage, so the secular world probably isn’t as uniform as you believe). Nevertheless I see no logical reason to deny gays the right to marry, as far as the state is concerned. If a Christian denomination doesn’t believe in gay marriage they have every right to deny the couples request to marry.

Religion has no place influencing our legal system (it goes against the tenor of our constitution).

I live in california. And when gay marriage was legal the gays tried to force Churches to marry them. And I believe the courts ruled in favor of the gays forcing the Church to marry them (not 100% sure on this ruling though). But the point is that this is going to happen if we allow gays to marry. Its just the first step for them. They aren’t just going to stop at allowing civil marriages. They are going to force religions to marry.

 

[yankee_doodle]

I live in california. And when gay marriage was legal the gays tried to force Churches to marry them. And I believe the courts ruled in favor of the gays forcing the Church to marry them (not 100% sure on this ruling though). But the point is that this is going to happen if we allow gays to marry. Its just the first step for them. They aren’t just going to stop at allowing civil marriages. They are going to force religions to marry.

It would unconstitutional to force a church to do virtually anything, let alone something so offensive to their doctrines (they don’t even pay taxes for goodness sake).

 

[Chancellare]

Well, the problem is that I can’t prove there is no Bigfoot and yet I don’t believe in Bigfoot.

Do I have “faith” there’s no Bigfoot? I mean, no actual evidence of Bigfoot has ever been produced – despite what a few Bigfoot believers claim. Certainly, I would start believing in Bigfoot if any actual evidence appeared, but until then, I do not believe in its existence.

I would not say that I’m rejecting the claim of Bigfoot on faith – I would say that I have good, evidence-based reasons for rejecting the claim.

Well, at least that’s not scientific thinking. No less than Einstein refused to dismiss the POSSIBILITY that God exists because he knew that the more you know, the you more don’t know. He knew that a scientist doesn’t discount a phenomenon just because it cannot be explained with a pre-conscieved proof. Had it been the case, there could have been no Louise Pasteur nor Leeuwenhoek who kept an open mind until they saw the things they failed to see with their naked eyes the cellular structures that previously had no proof (just a possibility) and we all could have died of typhus today.
And I’m not even talking about faith nor belief here…Just a simple open mind, which is sadly missing in your posts.

Even the law on probability says you guys have much to gain and nothing to lose if God exists while you are betting that you lose all. And we pray that it won’t be too much to comprehend.

 

[josie_L]

You are correct. Homosexual relations are a grave evil. The Church is not going to give in to the secular world to allow a redefinition of marriage. The Church is not going to tell homosexuals what they can and cannot do. If they want to have relations that is there decision. However, the Church will tell them that it is wrong. I think this was the point the poster was trying to make.

Yes that’s what I was trying to convey as the Church does not OPPOSE such relations but it obviously has it views about it.

 

[josie_L]

It would unconstitutional to force a church to do virtually anything, let alone something so offensive to their doctrines (they don’t even pay taxes for goodness sake).

Some people don’t care about the constitution, and furthermore, remember that everything that Hitler did was legal (this was someting Martin Luther King said as he fought against segregation).

 

[josie_L]

The CC doesn’t mind when gay people have sex? That’s a big bunch of elephant dung. Oh … I wasn’t talking about marriage, the church believes gay sex is sinful right, so the big man with the funny hat nips it in the bud way before the proposal (look it up in your catechism before you answer).

I said the CC does not oppose, that is legally, homosexual relations, meaning to say it’s not something the Church is fighting against vis a vis the government. Obviously, the Church has it’s beliefs about homsexual relations, but then again it does on a multitude of other issues as well, so there’s no discrimination, for example, heterosexual couples having sex before marriage is a sin.

Two dudes doing the wandango is a big no no … hey don’t get me wrong, I don’t want to be invited to the wedding ceremony, I just don’t care if it happens

Two people of the opposite sex doing the wandango (this is funny) before marriage is a big no no . . .

 

[yankee_doodle]

I said the CC does not oppose, that is legally, homosexual relations, meaning to say it’s not something the Church is fighting against vis a vis the government. Obviously, the Church has it’s beliefs about homsexual relations, but then again it does on a multitude of other issues as well, so there’s no discrimination, for example, heterosexual couples having sex before marriage is a sin.

except the church did oppose the UN resolution to call on all countries to repeal laws criminalizing homosexuality (as the Penn & Teller show charged)?

Two people of the opposite sex doing the wandango (this is funny) before marriage is a big no no . . .

And since same sex couples can never get married (according to the church) they can’t ever hit the old wanbango (I guess they could become priests … oooooo).