yes, but he still wasn’t a Christian. You don’t have to be a Christian to lead Christians (just ask Jefferson, Hamilton, Franklin, Paine, Adams, or Madison)Churchill was the one who specifically requested that Hymn for the Service. Take it as you like it.
Yankee, with all due respect you had no idea what Stalin’s family’s religious denomination was on this thread until I informed you it was not Catholicism. Again, I reiterate Stalin used his time at a seminary for illegal Revolutionary Marxist underground activity and reading up on Marx in his youth, not the Bible. I could go into further detail as to the particularities of Georgian students studying under Russian Orthodox teachers, and the nationality question in Tsarist Russia, but I don’t think you would get it. You are too quick to jump into areas you may be unsure of.
) then why kill the Church and on top of that the Synagogue? This is ridiculous. There was a Society of the Godless specifically built under the Soviet Union. You are straining credulity to ask me to believe such a man was shaped and moved by Christianity as opposed to Marxism and thuggery. Or do you approve of Stalin’s massacres of priests, rabbis, bishops, religious?Ayn Rand was a thinker after my own heart (or I guess I would be after her own heart … anyway, she followed a great philosophy)Hmm I thought we both discussed this once before and we agreed Smith, genuinely interested in Moral Principles, could better be described agnostic.
I take it you’re a freemarketer. Are you familiar with the atheist objectivist Ayn Rand and her acute individualism?
Stalin studied to become a Catholic priest. You can minimize the implications anyway you like …
I’m sure you studied Stalin more in depth than I have (my people never produced any in-bread psychopaths like Hitler or Stalin … so we’re less interested in their life stories. When they pop up we either kill them or defeat them in some other way).
more than I ever wanted to
good for you
In Europe these psychopaths were always produced by the Catholics.
because they must have really ticked him offDo you have any idea how many priests, bishops, rabbis, and religious Stalin killed? If Stalin was informed by Christianity in his beliefs (first time I have ever heard this
You’re saying
Um, my values would lead me to call the cops if I saw a crime being committed. I was just talking about people shoving each other while walking in the street. It’s not terribly uncommon in cities.
I wouldn’t say that “might makes right” because “right,” I’ve been arguing, has no objective meaning. My worldview boils down to “might”: the stronger will is always going to prevail in a situation. So I’m going to do my best to make sure that my will, my values, are the ones that win out.
Yankee you are attempting to make a logical argument but you cannot even get an elementary fact right! Stalin, for the 3rd time on this thread now, did not study to become a Catholic priest. I cannot understand how you cannot understand this so why bother with logical argumentation? Stalin was in a Russian Orthodox seminary for a while. Do you actually understand that Catholicism doesn’t equal Russian Orthodoxy?
Anti T. I cannot say I agree with you at all but I wish to thank you for your civility here.
Yankee you are attempting to make a logical argument but you cannot even get an elementary fact right! Stalin, for the 3rd time on this thread now, did not study to become a Catholic priest. I cannot understand how you cannot understand this so why bother with logical argumentation? Stalin was in a Russian Orthodox seminary for a while. Do you actually understand that Catholicism doesn’t equal Russian Orthodoxy?
Or one better. Name one legitimate source or book that claims Stalin studied to become a Catholic priest! There is none. REALLY THERE IS NONE. Please, for your own sake, get the facts right first, and then you can attempt to show me your superior logic. At least get your facts straight before you attempt to belittle poor ole me. Or why bother.
That is absolutely right. I saw that series on PBS. You just need to understand that the seminary in Tbilisi was a Russian Orthodox Seminary, and not a Catholic Seminary. He was being sent to become an Orthodox priest, not Catholic. Please tell me you understand the difference between Orthodox and Catholic! The Russian Orthodox Church by this time had become a State-Sponsored Institution of Russification under the Tsars (Stalin was Georgian). Georgia is an Orthodox country - one of the first Christian countries on earth after Armenia. Yankee, all you need now is to understand the difference between Orthodoxy and Catholicism but I am not sure you get it as you conflate the two. Catholicism was only practiced in Tsarist Russia in tsarist-controlled Poland and western Ukraine.
He didn’t finish his studies, but he studied to become a priest; and I think PBS is an adequate source.
Now that I’ve provided a source, can you name a single European tyrant who wasn’t jaded by the Catholic Church before they finally went crazy
Yankee I just did, if only you could understand European history. What is the point of spending time debating if I cannot even establish a primary fact that Stalin wasn’t raised Catholic with you. I feel I’ve just lost half an hour that could have been better spent so I’ll make my response short.
I just named one single tyrant not jaded by the Catholic Church: Stalin, to which I will add Lenin, Trotsky, Khrushchev, for now. Sorry if I go to other threads later.
Stalin was raised in the Orthodox Church. Every single source I’ve looked at (all credible) confirm it. Why should I believe you? I even found a Catholic source that confirms it:Yankee I just did, if only you could understand European history. What is the point of spending time debating if I cannot even establish a primary fact that Stalin wasn’t raised Catholic with you. I feel I’ve just lost half an hour that could have been better spent so I’ll make my response short.
I just named one single tyrant not jaded by the Catholic Church: Stalin, to which I will add Lenin, Trotsky, Khrushchev, for now. Sorry if I go to other threads later.
Hey thanks AntiT. I’m not sure why Yankee isn’t getting it.
Orthodox is a Catholic Church (albeit not “Roman” Catholic).
Let’s get this right so we don’t create confusion: the Catholic Church is headed by a pope the Orthodox Church is not, there are 22 rites within the Catholic Church, one of which is the Latin rite, i.e., “roman” (which by the way started off as a perjorative), there are none however that are refered to as the “orthodox” rite that’s because the Orthodox Church is a separate Christian body with a separate church structure. That being the case Stalin was not a Catholic. By your reasoning anyone who is Orthodox (and/or Anglican) would be labeled Catholic and (literally) part of the Catholic Church.
The Russian Orthodox Church is not “Catholic” in any sense, it is ethnic eastern orthodox, this is at odds with the very definintion of “Catholic” which means “Universal”. Further, the “Catholic” church isn’t the “Roman Catholic” church, “Roman Catholic” refers to the “Members of the Catholic Church which follows the Roman Rite”, the “Catholic Church” happens to be centered in a independant city (vatican city) contianed within Rome.
Gearhead mayhap you didn’t understand the point we were arguing, and that is “Stalin was not Catholic,” therefore his “catholicism” could have had no bearing on his beliefs. Furthermore, if people can’t get their facts straight (on this one detail), don’t expect others to just shut up about it.
Churchill was the one who specifically requested that Hymn for the Service. Take it as you like it.
You’ve corrected him - several times now. And unless Stalin’s beliefs has some relevance to the OP, it’s off-topic. With that in mind: what’s the relevance to the OP? What bearing does the denomination of Stalin’s seminary have on the correctness of atheism?
The “Stalin was an atheist” game is a game. At the very least, it’s certainly not a rational argument against atheism.