Proclaiming the bride and not the bridegroom

[DihydrogenOxide]

I’m catholic who adheres to the Apostles Creed. Being a Cafeteria catholic is not related to being a Cafeteria Catholic.

Oh? It sounds much the same to me. So you’re a “universal belief picker”… It sounds quite like you pick and choose what you will follow, rather than following the teaching of the Christ through scripture and tradition.

 

[Dancelittleewok]

I have posted that history is important in interperting the Scriptures.

Then I fail to see the reason for the plug of Foxe’s Book of Martyrs or the remark about history book being biased. Care to explain?

 

[Dancelittleewok]

You know Protestants believe this too!

Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish. In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ does the church, because we are members of his body. “Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church. However, let each one of you love his wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband. - Apostolic Teaching

Why do you think one must cut the Bridegroom and His Bride? Can you love both?

 

[2nd_Adam]

Why do you think one must cut the Bridegroom and His Bride? Can you love both?

I have enjoyed my time on Catholic Answers tremendously. I definitely enjoy my Catholic siblings in Christ. I have noticed that many Catholic siblings like to proclaim the bride. However, I believe Scripture reveals that we should be proclaiming the bridegroom instead of the bride. Do you think my assessment is correct?

We are to love the bridegroom first, and proclaim Him alone, so we are enabled to love those who makeup the bride. It sure seems that some have lynched a member of the bride who also happens to be Catholic among us. That doesn’t seem to be an act to love the bride to me. Love the bridegroom first and we all will be enabled to love the individual members who make-up the bride.

 

[izoid]

I have posted that history is important in interperting the Scriptures.

So who in the 1st and 2nd century, ECF’s, did not believe in the authority of the church ot the actual presence in the Eucharist?

 

[izoid]

You know Protestants believe this too!

Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish. In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ does the church, because we are members of his body. “Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church. However, let each one of you love his wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband. - Apostolic Teaching

It is clear here that the institution of the church is being affirmed. Whenever the apostles wrote about individuals they used a masculine pronoun. The feminine pronoun is used for the church in these verses. As such, how is our current system of protestantism preserving her from blemish?

 

[izoid]

We are to love the bridegroom first, and proclaim Him alone, so we are enabled to love those who makeup the bride. It sure seems that some have lynched a member of the bride who also happens to be Catholic among us. That doesn’t seem to be an act to love the bride to me. Love the bridegroom first and we all will be enabled to love the individual members who make-up the bride.

This is where we strongly differ. The Bride is the Catholic Church and not the body of all believers.

 

[2nd_Adam]

This is where we strongly differ. The Bride is the Catholic Church and not the body of all believers.

Really? If Protestants are outside the Catholic Church, how can we be part of the bride with your view?

 

[izoid]

Really? If Protestants are outside the Catholic Church, how can we be part of the bride with your view?

Maybe you should start a new thread entitled, can salvation come outside of the Catholic Church?

Let’s stay on topic here. The Church that Christ established upon Peter is the Bride. The bridegroom is Christ and cannot be separated from His Bride. He is the head, he prays for the same unity in His Church as He shares with the Father. It is pretty clear that He has high expectations of the Bride.

 

[Dancelittleewok]

We are to love the bridegroom first, and proclaim Him alone, so we are enabled to love those who makeup the bride. It sure seems that some have lynched a member of the bride who also happens to be Catholic among us. That doesn’t seem to be an act to love the bride to me. Love the bridegroom first and we all will be enabled to love the individual members who make-up the bride.

Indeed, God is love. We are instructed to love one another as God has loved us. God the Son emptied Himself and became Jesus. His sacrifice was for all the world and this gift is open to all but unfortunately, few accept it.

However, Jesus whom is both God and man, from the Catholic point of view, gave the world the Church. This Church is both visible and invisible, which is why we can say outside of the Church there is no salvation but embrace our separated brethren as brothers and sisters in Christ. Our separated brethren do have partial truths gleaned the Church and thus remain a part of her in an imperfect union. From the Catholic point of view, Church isn’t a mere body of believers but beyond that: she is the Bride herself. When Catholics tell you about the Church, we are also telling you the founder whom is Jesus, God and man.

Catholics encounter Jesus in the Confessional because the priest in acting a persona Christ and following the Scripture: “Confess your sins to one another”. Christ himself absolves my sins!

Catholics encounter Jesus by praying to His Mother and the saints. For these men and women, and Mary herself, wouldn’t be saints without the grace of God Himself (and their response to His graces). Through their intercessions, many graces are bestowed upon us by the decree of God Himself.

Catholics encounter Jesus in the Eucharist. The Eucharist isn’t mere bread or wine but Jesus whom God Himself and man. God humbling Himself under the appearance of common bread and wine. In this glorious Sacrament, we partake of His divine nature and become one flesh with Him…truly this is the Bride and Bridegroom cleaving to one another!

I could go on but by now, you see the point. Catholicism isn’t an interposing or blockade to Jesus but in every way, Catholics encounter the Bridegroom in every Sacrament.

Let us look at somethings Jesus said:

“I am the way, the truth, and the light”

How does your concept of the church live out this? By going by Sola Scriptura, many Protestants have different and contradictory truths. By going by Sola Scriptura, there are multiple ways to Jesus if truth doesn’t matter. By going by Sola Scriptura, Christians may be salt and light but what those two concepts mean is disputed. Sola Scriptura demands the Truth Himself be contradicted and okay with moral relativism.

 

[2nd_Adam]

Maybe you should start a new thread entitled, can salvation come outside of the Catholic Church?

Let’s stay on topic here. The Church that Christ established upon Peter is the Bride. The bridegroom is Christ and cannot be separated from His Bride. He is the head, he prays for the same unity in His Church as He shares with the Father. It is pretty clear that He has high expectations of the Bride.

The Church is not some kind of alien entity of its own. The visible church is madeup of indivudal sinners, some who are united to Christ, and some who are not. The invisible church is madeup of individuals who are united to Christ.

 

[Dancelittleewok]

The Church is not some kind of alien entity of its own. The visible church is madeup of indivudal sinners, some who are united to Christ, and some who are not. The invisible church is madeup of individuals who are united to Christ.

The Church has a metaphysical reality, which isn’t to say the Bride is alien, for she is in the world but not of it.

In your concept of the church, are the damned including in the visible part since they aren’t united to Christ? Also, please comment on my previous post, the one after izoid’s.

 

[Rocket_Man]

Catholics encounter Jesus in the Confessional because the priest
Catholics encounter Jesus by praying to His Mother and the saints
Catholics encounter Jesus in the Eucharist

And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw it, they removed, and stood afar off. And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die.

 

[Dancelittleewok]

And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw it, they removed, and stood afar off. And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die.

Relevance? Why did you butcher my previous post which had references on how this all goes back to grace and God?

 

[Rocket_Man]

Relevance? Why did you butcher my previous post which had references on how this all goes back to grace and God?

From what I learned on these forums regarding the catholic doctrine of justification, the sufficiency of grace, the reason there is a purgatory, unable to enjoy any assurance, etc… I find in all of these examples you gave below, man made ways for people to step far off from seeing all of God’s Glory in the person of Jesus Christ, and to annoint other mediators, like Moses, and other substitutes to do their bidding, because they are unable to do the works that the law demands. They are acting no different than those living under the old covenant law.

Catholics encounter Jesus in the Confessional because the priest
Catholics encounter Jesus by praying to His Mother and the saints
Catholics encounter Jesus in the Eucharist

And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw it, they removed, and stood afar off. And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die.

 

[Dancelittleewok]

From what I learned on these forums regarding the catholic doctrine of justification, the sufficiency of grace, the reason there is a purgatory, unable to enjoy any assurance, etc… I find in all of these examples you gave below, man made ways for people to step far off from seeing all of God’s Glory in the person of Jesus Christ, and to annoint other mediators, like Moses, and other substitutes to do their bidding, because they are unable to do the works that the law demands. They are acting no different than those living under the old covenant law.

Catholics encounter Jesus in the Confessional because the priest
Catholics encounter Jesus by praying to His Mother and the saints
Catholics encounter Jesus in the Eucharist

And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw it, they removed, and stood afar off. And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die.

Please read my whole post and not proof texts the parts wherein I **explicitly **say where this all goes back to God. I’ll address more of this in the morning because I now I need sleep.

 

[2nd_Adam]

The Church has a metaphysical reality, which isn’t to say the Bride is alien, for she is in the world but not of it.

In your concept of the church, are the damned including in the visible part since they aren’t united to Christ? Also, please comment on my previous post, the one after izoid’s.

Sure, according to Jesus and the Apostles, the visible church is a mix of unconverted and converted sinners. However, it does not mean the unconverted goats in the visible church will not be converted later in life. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the proclamation of the gospel of God about His Son. Salvation is of the Lord according to His sovereign grace and His sovereign time.

Do you mind giving me a post number that you want me to respond to? Thanks!

 

[izoid]

From what I learned on these forums regarding the catholic doctrine of justification, the sufficiency of grace, the reason there is a purgatory, unable to enjoy any assurance, etc… I find in all of these examples you gave below, man made ways for people to step far off from seeing all of God’s Glory in the person of Jesus Christ, and to annoint other mediators, like Moses, and other substitutes to do their bidding, because they are unable to do the works that the law demands. They are acting no different than those living under the old covenant law.

Catholics encounter Jesus in the Confessional because the priest
Catholics encounter Jesus by praying to His Mother and the saints
Catholics encounter Jesus in the Eucharist

And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw it, they removed, and stood afar off. And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die.

Does the fact that you refuse to accept the clear Biblical basis for these three doctrines mean they are man made?

Is it possible that your refusal to accept Biblical teachings makes you the one that is following a man made religion?

 

[Hiskid1973]

I think that separation and division are fruits of the Reformation.

Separation and division have roots, it went on way before protestantism even was heard of…

 

[StillWondering]

From what I learned on these forums regarding the catholic doctrine of justification, the sufficiency of grace, the reason there is a purgatory, unable to enjoy any assurance, etc… I find in all of these examples you gave below, man made ways for people to step far off from seeing all of God’s Glory in the person of Jesus Christ, and to annoint other mediators, like Moses, and other substitutes to do their bidding, because they are unable to do the works that the law demands. They are acting no different than those living under the old covenant law.

Good point except incorrect. Catholics live their very lives centered around Christ. God is the core of our existence. From that everything flows out. God could have not created the world and would still be God and just fine. He is. End of story.

At the same time, God created the world and everything in it. So unlike Christian groups who only focus on God and nothing else, Catholics focuses on God and everything else that comes from God.

Think of it as a diagram below. It’s in no way a perfect diagram and different things have different relations to each other. Basic idea is that Catholics don’t live in isolation. God is the center and all of us, all of the blessings, and all of the grace that flows from God extend out of this center:

--------------------------------Hope-----------------------------------
-------------------Work---------------------Angles-----------------
---------Relationships-------------------------Community-----
------Mary------------------Trinity-----------------Intercessors-
---------Blessings--------------------------------Art----------------
--------------------Faith----------------------Charity----------------
-----------------------------Existence--------------------------------

• Lines added to create spacing. The forum automatically removes spaces.