Proclaiming the bride and not the bridegroom

[guanophore]

Shannon said Christ has died, Christ is risen and Christ will come again. He replied a Mormon could say the same and Adam didn’t answer us when we asked about what was he alluding to the “centrality of the Gospel” if not Christ’s death, resurrection and Second Coming.

I think you need to discuss what Christ accomplished in his life, death and ressurection for sinners. Think about it, a Mormon can post exactly what you posted without blinking.

I think you made a mistake, Ewok. I dont’ think you should have consented to play this game. This is a non-winnable game. However, if you want to play, more power to you. You will find yourself through trial and error trying to find something that will please 2nd in the way of an answer.

In the meantime, he will succeed in shifting the focus of the topic so that he does not have to be resposible for the calumny and false dichotomy he posted.

 

[2nd_Adam]

I think you made a mistake, Ewok. I dont’ think you should have consented to play this game. This is a non-winnable game. However, if you want to play, more power to you. You will find yourself through trial and error trying to find something that will please 2nd in the way of an answer.

In the meantime, he will succeed in shifting the focus of the topic so that he does not have to be resposible for the calumny and false dichotomy he posted.

This is no game my friend. This a very serious sobering topic for Catholics and Protestants alike. Orthodoxy that does not grow our love and affection for God is suspect, requiring deep self-examination. Again ths is no game for any of us.

You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder! - James

Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you fail to meet the test! - Paul

 

[Dancelittleewok]

I think you made a mistake, Ewok. I dont’ think you should have consented to play this game. This is a non-winnable game. However, if you want to play, more power to you. You will find yourself through trial and error trying to find something that will please 2nd in the way of an answer.

In the meantime, he will succeed in shifting the focus of the topic so that he does not have to be resposible for the calumny and false dichotomy he posted.

I agree. I do, however, feel slighted (and I bet Shannon feels the same) that our inquiries were used in such a disrespectful manner. My posting was to show the wrongness in the situation rather than seeking an answer from Adam.

Adam, I’d like you to apologize for what you done against your brethren and their faith tradition.

 

[mskejj]

Adam 2nd…just curious…have you actually ever attended a Catholic mass?

 

[guanophore]

The way that I understand it, many Catholics identify as being Catholic first and Christian second.

I can see why it would appear that way to you, coming from a denominational perspective as you do. For us, though, there is no distinction between being Christian and being Catholic. It is not possible to be Catholic without being Christian.

  Therefore, there can be a tendency to love the bride more than the bridegroom. Protestants can have the tendency to love Scripture more than Christ Himself. Therefore, Protestants can love the written word more than the living Word.

I can see why it would also seem that there needs to be a separation of distinction between these two. However, since Jesus loves the Church, and gave Himself up for her, we see no need to separate them. During the Reformation, they believed that they needed to separate Jesus from Church because they felt so misled by the clerics of the time, leading people falsely and giving very poor example. They wanted to have a pure relationship wth God, and thought that meant they had to jettison from the Church. They redefined “church” with something that would enable them to separate from the corruption.

I do not think it would be appropropriate to ask you to show your love of Jesus “an not” the Scriptures. I don’t think it is necessary or prudent to separate them. Being Christ centered is important for all, but it does not mean we cannot have relationship with the great gifts Jesus gave us in the Church and in the Scripture.

 

[2nd_Adam]

Adam 2nd…just curious…have you actually ever attended a Catholic mass?

Yes, but it’s been awhile. When I was in college my roomate was Catholic, so he use to take me to Mass with him on a regular basis. Actually, his twin brother became a Priest. I also was in several Catholic weddings when I was young. I also been to an RCIA class and a Catholic men’s fellowship at a Catholic Church. The interesting thing is that I did not grow up Christian but many of my friends were Catholic in High School, College, and my single days in my twenties. So, I have a subject view of many who were Catholic, yet lived like me as a partying Pagan surfer.

 

[guanophore]

 I'm just being honest about the Christian life for all Christians regardless of our Christian communities.

How does it make you look “honest” to repeat insults that have been given to you? You lost me there!

   There is always a swing between cold orthodoxy and extreme emotionalism, one way or the other.  I bet the Born Again Catholics or the Charismatic Catholics would have much to say about those Catholics who are orthodox at all cost.

Really, what might they say?

You have labeled me as one of those “Catholics who are orthodox at all costs”, not knowing that I, too, am a born again charismatic Catholic. I think this attempt to pidgeonhole your readers does not seem to be working out very well.

 

[2nd_Adam]

You have labeled me as one of those “Catholics who are orthodox at all costs”, not knowing that I, too, am a born again charismatic Catholic. I think this attempt to pidgeonhole your readers does not seem to be working out very well.

I’m glad to hear that! It would be nice to see your love for Christ in your postings once in awhile. Of course, our interpertation of each other’s postings are subjective. You state that you are not here to fellowship with me. However, God creates fellowship with all those who are united to Christ in spiritual reality, even though you might not think so. Through divine providence, we are here together for His purpose, and our good. There is a reason why we both are compelled to respond to each other which is much bigger than we both realize.

 

[guanophore]

I don’t think so my friend, because one Catholic (Lapey) gave a very glorifying testimony about her great love for the bridegroom within the Catholic Faith.

Indeed she did, after you changed the topic of the thread. She fell for it.

You then misused that beautiful testimony (which is the consequence for falling for the game) against two other forum members, evaluated their posts according to your own standard of what is glorifying to God, and found them wanting.

Tweetymom is also another Catholic who has a great love for the bridegroom within the Catholic Faith.

That she claims, while dishonoring His bride by claiming to be in unity with her when she is not.

  I also find Ryan Oneil to be a breath of fresh air in the Catholic Faith.

I urge you to look back at your OP, and see why what you stated there may not result in getting your needs met. If you really want a “breath of fresh air” from Catholics, I don’t think insulting their faith practice and creating false dichotomies is really the most effective method, do you?

 

[guanophore]

Shannon said Christ has died, Christ is risen and Christ will come again. He replied a Mormon could say the same and Adam didn’t answer us when we asked about what was he alluding to the “centrality of the Gospel” if not Christ’s death, resurrection and Second Coming.

I think you both fell into his game of throwing out a provocative, insulting, or calumnous remark, then letting him flee from the explosion by changing the subject. Here is the OP
2ndAdam:

I have noticed that many Catholic siblings like to proclaim the bride. However, I believe Scripture reveals that we should be proclaiming the bridegroom instead of the bride. Do you think my assessment is correct?

In the thread topic, he says “the bride AND NOT the bridegroom”, creating a false dichotomy.

Now, your answer is an attempt to “prove” that his assessment is false. This will ultimately fail, because he has based the inquiry on the false premise that the Church should be separated from Christ. This is the topic.

he quickly tried to divert from the original topic by turning it in to a requests for testimony, but this is just a smokescreen to flee from the damage. The whole first page of posters provided him with very good responses, all of which he ignored as being beautiful testimonies of faith.

 

[2nd_Adam]

Catholics can miss Jesus by proclaiming the Church instead of Christ.

Protestants can miss Jesus by proclaiming the Scriptures instead of Chrst.

You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me, - John 5:39

Put On the New Self

If then you have been raised with Christ, seek the things that are above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. Set your minds on things that are above, not on things that are on earth. For you have died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. When Christ who is your life appears, then you also will appear with him in glory.

I believe all Christians regardless of being Catholic or Protestant tend to move away from the centrality of Christ on our spiritual journey. Therefore, we need to remind each other daily and to ourselves about our great God and Savior Jesus Christ. I am here to fellowship with Christians regardless of our religious affiliations, and to help each other to grow in our love and affection for our great Triune God. Growing in the grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ requires comparing and contrasting our differences to the glory of God alone. Why are you here?

Here is a very basic question for the Christian, regardless of being Catholic or Protestant.

Why do you love the Lord Jesus Christ?

We both love the church, but we have a different understanding of the church. I’m a Christian first and foremost; I am an Evangelical Christian second, and I am a Reformed Christian a distant third. The way that I understand it, many Catholics identify as being Catholic first and Christian second. Therefore, there can be a tendency to love the bride more than the bridegroom. Protestants can have the tendency to love Scripture more than Christ Himself. Therefore, Protestants can love the written word more than the living Word.

BTW… I really loved your testimony! Believe me, I was sincere in what I posted.

We tend to create Christian idols of the heart as sinner-saints. As unbelievers, we created pagan idols. As believers, we create Christian idols, anything that we love more than God Himself. These Christian idols can be good things in their proper place. Calvinism can become an idol and so can Catholicism. Therefore, we need to look to Jesus each and everyday. We need to preach the gospel to ourselves. We need to proclaim Christ to Christians each and everyday. Our lives so be centered around the gospel of God first and foremost. We need a Christ-centered and gospel-centered life. Therefore, we should remind each other about Christ and Him crucified all the time. That is the what the Apostles did in their Epistles to the churches.

Jesus, Founder and Perfecter of Our Faith

Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God. - Hebrews 12

I’m just being honest about the Christian life for all Christians regardless of our Christian communities. There is always a swing between cold orthodoxy and extreme emotionalism, one way or the other. I bet the Born Again Catholics or the Charismatic Catholics would have much to say about those Catholics who are orthodox at all cost. Calvinism is no different, nor is Armininism. The Christian life is a struggle, which God intended it to be.

Straining Toward the Goal

Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect, but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own. Brothers, I do not consider that I have made it my own. But one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead, I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus. Let those of us who are mature think this way, and if in anything you think otherwise, God will reveal that also to you. Only let us hold true to what we have attained. - Apostolic Teaching

This is no game my friend. This a very serious sobering topic for Catholics and Protestants alike. Orthodoxy that does not grow our love and affection for God is suspect, requiring deep self-examination. Again ths is no game for any of us.

You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder! - James

Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you fail to meet the test! - Paul

Paul’s Ministry to the Church

Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I am filling up what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church, of which I became a minister according to the stewardship from God that was given to me for you, to make the word of God fully known, the mystery hidden for ages and generations but now revealed to his saints. To them God chose to make known how great among the Gentiles are the riches of the glory of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. Him we proclaim, warning everyone and teaching everyone with all wisdom, that we may present everyone mature in Christ. For this I toil, struggling with all his energy that he powerfully works within me.

 

[guanophore]

This is no game my friend. This a very serious sobering topic for Catholics and Protestants alike. Orthodoxy that does not grow our love and affection for God is suspect, requiring deep self-examination. Again ths is no game for any of us.

I agree with you that those who belong to Christ will grow in love and affection for God. This love and affection is demonstrated in our relationships here on earth. As Jesus teaches us in the Beatitudes, whatsoever we do to the least, we do unto Him. As to the Church, those who receive the authority appointed by Him, receive Him.

You seem to want to have your own private affection fest for God that does not need to manifest itself in love for the Church, and love for the world.

Let us see what the Apostle has to say about this increase of affection:

2Pe 1:3 His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us to his own glory and excellence,
2Pe 1:4 by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world because of sinful desire.
2Pe 1:5 For this very reason, make every effort to supplement your faith with virtue, and virtue with knowledge,
2Pe 1:6 and knowledge with self-control, and self-control with steadfastness, and steadfastness with godliness,
2Pe 1:7 and godliness with brotherly affection, and brotherly affection with love.
2Pe 1:8 For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they keep you from being ineffective or unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2Pe 1:9 For whoever lacks these qualities is so nearsighted that he is blind, having forgotten that he was cleansed from his former sins.
2Pe 1:10 Therefore, brothers, be all the more diligent to make your calling and election sure, for if you practice these qualities you will never fall.
2Pe 1:11 For in this way there will be richly provided for you an entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

He says that brotherly affection is one of the signs that shows that we are effective and fruitful in the knowlege of God.

Love for the Church goes hand in glove with love of the Lord, and growing in His grace. There is no “bridegroom AND NOT bride”. This is a false dichotomy, and contrary to Scripture.

 

[guanophore]

Yes, but it’s been awhile. When I was in college my roomate was Catholic, so he use to take me to Mass with him on a regular basis. Actually, his twin brother became a Priest. I also was in several Catholic weddings when I was young. I also been to an RCIA class and a Catholic men’s fellowship at a Catholic Church. The interesting thing is that I did not grow up Christian but many of my friends were Catholic in High School, College, and my single days in my twenties. So, I have a subject view of many who were Catholic, yet lived like me as a partying Pagan surfer.

Based upon this experience, I can see why you would say that Catholics are rebellious in the hands of the potter.

 

[izoid]

Yes, but it’s been awhile. When I was in college my roomate was Catholic, so he use to take me to Mass with him on a regular basis. Actually, his twin brother became a Priest. I also was in several Catholic weddings when I was young. I also been to an RCIA class and a Catholic men’s fellowship at a Catholic Church. The interesting thing is that I did not grow up Christian but many of my friends were Catholic in High School, College, and my single days in my twenties. So, I have a subject view of many who were Catholic, yet lived like me as a partying Pagan surfer.

Have you ever run into such people in the protestant world? I can assure you they exist in great numbers. I have personally witnessed several sex scandals, alcohol related abuses, adultery and theft within the protestant church. It is unfortunate but it exists everywhere.

 

[izoid]

Why do you think Christ calls the Church His bride?

 

[mskejj]

Adam 2nd…just curious…have you actually ever attended a Catholic mass?

 

[Lapey]

I don’t think so my friend, because one Catholic (Lapey) gave a very glorifying testimony about her great love for the bridegroom within the Catholic Faith. Tweetymom is also another Catholic who has a great love for the bridegroom within the Catholic Faith. I also find Ryan Oneil to be a breath of fresh air in the Catholic Faith. I must have ask the question below at least four times.

First off, I am most definitely not a “her”, but a him!

In one of my last posts you should have noticed I mentioned that I was working towards being an ordained minister…the Catholic Church does not ordain women. That should have been a dead give away. Good Lord willing I will be ordained to the Diaconate next December.

You come across as an elitist pig the way you treat people on here. I have tried to call you out calmly but you ignore my words that indict you, and you misuse my words that are MY words of glory and praise to Jesus Christ.

Who put you on the web to “measure” us Catholics? What arrogance!

You speak as if you know all Catholics Love the Church and not Christ, but you fail to listen to the Catholics that you accuse. It is not up to us to prove our love for Christ to you.

You say that an Orthodoxy that does not grow our love for God is suspect, but whose standard do you use to measure growth, yours? Who shall decide which spirituality fits the definition, you? Do you even understand the differing spiritualities within the big tent called the Roman Catholic Church?

We must learn to come into a discussion with people of different views with no prejudices. I have been avoiding this forum for about six months because I got jumped by an Episcopalian who had no idea who I was or where I am, all he saw was the fact that he had to “lay down the law” to Lapey as I remember his words.

It’s just sad that people like you purposely disrespect others here, and look down your nose at us Catholics, then refer to yourself as Christian? Then accuse us of being Catholic before Christian? Who do you think you are?

I would be willing to bet there are no Catholics non Christian people here, that doesn’t exit anywhere except in the mind of people like you. This Church was and is the Church of Christian Catholics established by Jesus Christ on the rock Peter. Get over it.

There are hate websites all over the net, go try one. I list my affiliation as Roman Catholic Christian because of that very sad fact. I want you to know who I am.

Now either be a man and own up to your duty and have a civil discussion or take your ball and go home…this is a Catholic website, and I am a Roman Catholic Christian!!!

 

[guanophore]

First off, I am most definitely not a “her”, but a him!

In one of my last posts you should have noticed I mentioned that I was working towards being an ordained minister…the Catholic Church does not ordain women. That should have been a dead give away. Good Lord willing I will be ordained to the Diaconate next December.

You come across as an elitist pig the way you treat people on here. I have tried to call you out calmly but you ignore my words that indict you, and you misuse my words that are MY words of glory and praise to Jesus Christ.

Who put you on the web to “measure” us Catholics? What arrogance!

You speak as if you know all Catholics Love the Church and not Christ, but you fail to listen to the Catholics that you accuse. It is not up to us to prove our love for Christ to you.

You say that an Orthodoxy that does not grow our love for God is suspect, but whose standard do you use to measure growth, yours? Who shall decide which spirituality fits the definition, you? Do you even understand the differing spiritualities within the big tent called the Roman Catholic Church?

We must learn to come into a discussion with people of different views with no prejudices. I have been avoiding this forum for about six months because I got jumped by an Episcopalian who had no idea who I was or where I am, all he saw was the fact that he had to “lay down the law” to Lapey as I remember his words.

It’s just sad that people like you purposely disrespect others here, and look down your nose at us Catholics, then refer to yourself as Christian? Then accuse us of being Catholic before Christian? Who do you think you are?

I would be willing to bet there are no Catholics non Christian people here, that doesn’t exit anywhere except in the mind of people like you. This Church was and is the Church of Christian Catholics established by Jesus Christ on the rock Peter. Get over it.

There are hate websites all over the net, go try one. I list my affiliation as Roman Catholic Christian because of that very sad fact. I want you to know who I am.

Now either be a man and own up to your duty and have a civil discussion or take your ball and go home…this is a Catholic website, and I am a Roman Catholic Christian!!!

Lapey! Don’t hold back. Tell us how you REALLY feel!

Sorry for reading your post too fast. May God bless you and sustain you on your path of service to Him.

 

[Lapey]

Lapey! Don’t hold back. Tell us how you REALLY feel!

Sorry for reading your post too fast. May God bless you and sustain you on your path of service to Him.

The elitist attitude just gets my goat…sorry about the rant. I just had to get it out of my system. I feel much better now.

 

[2nd_Adam]

You come across as an elitist pig…

I guess I can take that as a compliment since Pope Leo called Martin Luther a wild boar. Well, when you consider the official claim that the Catholic Church is the One True Church, and there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church, maybe you are the elitist after-all. However, I won’t call you a pig.

http://grassfedcooking.com/img/pig.jpg

I’m glad elitist Protestant pigs are no longer BBQ at the stake anymore.