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dkoinzan
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Does anyone know if there is a Patron Saint for preborn children who have died without Baptism. If not is there a cause for a preborn child Saint?
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OSUbride0708
Guest
St. Catherine of Sweden is the patron saint against miscarriages and abortion
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dkoinzan
Guest
Thank you, but what I am looking for is a child who was born dead who has been declared a Saint.
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Truly_Beloved
Guest
What about the Holy Innocents? None were born dead, but died shortly after birth and were unbaptized.
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dkoinzan
Guest
I thought of that too, but that isn’t quite what I have in mind. What I am looking for is a specific child. With the culture of death and the total lack of dignity given to the preborn child, I just wondered if maybe there was a child who we could ask to intercede for our unbaptised children. What a profound witness it would be to show the world we believe life begins at conception and have a Saint to prove it. I am praying for such a Saint and thought, maybe God has already shown us one and I am just not informed. I don’t get original ideas, I am just a little women on the prarie.
(Well, maybe not all that little, but surely on the prarie.)
(Well, maybe not all that little, but surely on the prarie.)
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CatholicSam
Guest
This is such a beautiful idea. In the past I have thought that perhaps an increased devotion to the Unborn Christ Child would be a powerful witness in this pro-death world.
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dkoinzan
Guest
I agree that the Christ Child is the most powerful witness and we have pictures of him all around our house. I am going to have to do some more searching for a preborn child Saint.
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CatholicSam
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But I mean the *Unborn *Christ Child, like praying to him in Mary’s womb!
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gardenswithkids
Guest
Saint John the Baptist eventually grew up, but the Church teaches he was sanctified in Elizabeth’s womb at the Visitation. Since he knew a little something about baptising, he might make a good intercessor for the unbaptised.
Also, today (December 12th) is the feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe. To my understanding, the position of the belt on her image indicates she is pregnant. Many regard Our Lady of Guadalupe as a patroness for the Pro-Life movement.
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CatholicSam
Guest
What a great idea about St. John the Baptist! Wow! And yes, you’re right about Our Lady of Guadalupe. In fact, it was while looking at her image in our church that made me think of not only speaking to her, but to the little Baby Jesus in her womb in that painting
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dkoinzan
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I hate it when I can’t get my words to match my thoughts. All of those are excellent points. I know about Our Lady of Guadalupe and I had thought about the Child Jesus, but I hadn’t thought of baby Jesus. Still, what I am looking for a child born with sin who has made it to heaven without baptism and has been declared a Saint by the Church.
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Tim_Kirchoff
Guest
So, you’re looking for an infant who died without baptism, and has been declared a saint. To my knowledge, the all the Church has said about children who die without baptism is that they “are in the hands of a merciful and loving God”…
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Gertabelle
Guest
To my knowledge, except for the Holy Innocents, the Church has not canonized any Saints who were below the age of reason (about seven years old). And I’m not sure if the Holy Innocents are actually canonized saints.
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Potato1
Guest
you won’t find one. The Holy innocents predated baptism. The Church has not ever cannonized a person who is not Catholic. and the inception of being Catholic is baptism. This does not mean that we cannopt hope for salvation for the aborted but the Church has no reason to cannonize those whose lives ended tragically without an insight into what and who they were in faith. Instead of looking for a specific case to match an abortion think of it as a reason why abortion is so horrific and trust thier souls unto God. There have been some excellent suggestions above on who to pray with.
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dkoinzan
Guest
It isn’t about who to pray with. All the Saints are wonderful prayer partners and I use them always. It is about honoring life from conception. If we say they are humans with a soul then why can’t we also have a Saint that died before birth? If we want to end abortion and show that the preborn are just as treasured, then a Cannonized Saint would give that witness. St. Theresa teaches the little way. Why not a Saint to teach us that he or she was living in the womb AND WENT HEAVEN without baptism.
Limbo is out and thats good because I am never truely happy in limbo and I doubt anyone else is either. We aren’t to baptise dead bodies and it is said that you must be baptised to get to heaven. Of course we have baptism of desire, but they don’t readily apply that to the preborn. You could put aborted babies in the Martyrs, but where does that leave children who die naturally before birth.
Of course abortion is wrong but the Church needs to do more work to show they really believe that life begins at conception. Back up their words with actions. Maybe I just have a glitch.
Limbo is out and thats good because I am never truely happy in limbo and I doubt anyone else is either. We aren’t to baptise dead bodies and it is said that you must be baptised to get to heaven. Of course we have baptism of desire, but they don’t readily apply that to the preborn. You could put aborted babies in the Martyrs, but where does that leave children who die naturally before birth.
Of course abortion is wrong but the Church needs to do more work to show they really believe that life begins at conception. Back up their words with actions. Maybe I just have a glitch.
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CatholicSam
Guest
Why is it that we can’t baptise the unborn? What constitutes a baptism? Water and the words “I baptise you in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,” right? OK, well, the baby is swimming in water in the womb! So all that’s missing is the prayer of baptism, which is just as easy to pronounce if the baby is in or out of the womb.
Officially doing away with limbo was an awesome step in the Church (I know, it never really was a teaching of the Church, just a popular theory that has now officiall been discounted). Now… what about baptising the unborn? Why is it that the Catholic Church teaches that a person from conception to birth is just as precious as a person from birth to adulthood, but we can’t baptise these precious people?
Why is it that we baptise as infants versus older children and adults like other Christian denominations do? Because we need the graces and don’t want people to die without baptism! Similarly, wouldn’t it be great to actually move the baptism up even earlier, to as soon as we find out we’re pregnant? That is a little person with a soul–all that they’re waiting for is to be a certain size and move a few inches down the birth canal. And those don’t seem like that great reasons for witholding baptism. That’s similar to waiting for the baby to be an older child, teen, or adult, don’t you think?
OK, sorry if this was very strange, but the thought just suddenly came to me and I got excited! Of course I would not go against any teachings of the Church and if the Church says you can’t baptise a preborn child, then I accept that. But in today’s culture of death, wouldn’t it be great if Unborn Baptism was approved? What a powerful pro-life witness! We say that life begins at conception, but we only allow spiritual life (in a sense) to begin after birth.
Officially doing away with limbo was an awesome step in the Church (I know, it never really was a teaching of the Church, just a popular theory that has now officiall been discounted). Now… what about baptising the unborn? Why is it that the Catholic Church teaches that a person from conception to birth is just as precious as a person from birth to adulthood, but we can’t baptise these precious people?
Why is it that we baptise as infants versus older children and adults like other Christian denominations do? Because we need the graces and don’t want people to die without baptism! Similarly, wouldn’t it be great to actually move the baptism up even earlier, to as soon as we find out we’re pregnant? That is a little person with a soul–all that they’re waiting for is to be a certain size and move a few inches down the birth canal. And those don’t seem like that great reasons for witholding baptism. That’s similar to waiting for the baby to be an older child, teen, or adult, don’t you think?
OK, sorry if this was very strange, but the thought just suddenly came to me and I got excited! Of course I would not go against any teachings of the Church and if the Church says you can’t baptise a preborn child, then I accept that. But in today’s culture of death, wouldn’t it be great if Unborn Baptism was approved? What a powerful pro-life witness! We say that life begins at conception, but we only allow spiritual life (in a sense) to begin after birth.
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CatholicSam
Guest
I’ve been thinking about this all morning. Any thoughts, anyone? Would unborn baptism be possible in the future? What do you think?
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dkoinzan
Guest
I am with you CatholicSam!
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Truly_Beloved
Guest
Okay, here’s an idea.I’ve been thinking about this all morning. Any thoughts, anyone? Would unborn baptism be possible in the future? What do you think?
We all know that water must be used. Doesn’t it have to be plain water, though? Amniotic fluid isn’t just plain water, so I don’t know if baptizing while in the womb would be canonically correct.
I’m not objecting to the idea; I actually really like the idea of baptizing preborn babies (whenever I think I’m pregnant, especially before I really know for sure, I bless my tummy with holy water using the sign of the cross – certainly not a baptism, but a special blessing nonetheless).
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CatholicSam
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Hmmm, yes, we’ll have to look into that. But there is *some *water in amniotic fluid. The other stuff (in the amniotic fluid) wouldn’t really be involved in the baptism at all, kwim? It would just “happen” to be there. I’ve heard stories of people who had accidents at sea being baptised with sea water. And I’m sure many babies are baptised with tap water that has chlorine and fluoride in it.
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