Prominent Catholics call on pope to oust S.F. archbishop

[FollowChrist34]

It could be that some of them were pressured by Mr. Sam Singer to sign the ad.

They are more committed to their own secular agenda than the Church. The Church only means anything to them when it is completely subjective, distorted to match their own “value system”. That is the only Church they want or can understand (essentially just a mirror). When someone resists that tendency (i.e., stands by orthodoxy), they go on the attack.

 

[St_Pancake]

Honestly, I agree that Archbishop Cordileone was inappropriate for the SF area. He would fit a fullthroated conservative area quite well, but he is not very skilled at evangelization, which is what is needed in the SF area.

That being said, I agree with kozlosap that while I believe Pope Francis would have never appointed him there, he will also not remove him, as it would issue the wrong message.

If someone needs a specific example of why Archbishop Cordileone is a bad fit for SF, a good example is his refusal to recognize an orthodox gay or lesbian Catholic group because they refused to stop using the words “gay” and “lesbian.”

ncronline.org/news/spirituality/gay-ministry-group-refuses-sign-oath

Another example is how he declined calls to step down from a parade that was organized and participated in by anti-gay hate groups.

sfgate.com/lgbt/article/S-F-archbishop-March-for-Marriage-is-not-5557050.php

These actions just make gay people feel unwelcome in the Church, which should be a non-starter for an archbishop for San Francisco.

Edit: I want to make clear I am not attacking his character. I am sure he means well for all his parishioners (and all San Franciscans). But his strategies are not a good fit for San Francisco; they are isolating.

What defines an anti-gay “hate group”?

 

[SMGS127]

What defines an anti-gay “hate group”?

A group who promotes factual inaccuracies about gay people in a smear tactic designed to heavily increase public distaste for the LGBT community. The Family Research Council, as an example, has heavily played up a disproven supposed link between homosexuals and pedophiles, and they have also claimed in official publications statements such as this:

“One of the primary goals of the homosexual rights movement is to abolish all age of consent laws and to eventually recognize pedophiles as the ‘prophets’ of a new sexual order.”

Tony Perkins, the head of the FRC, has also claimed that the “It Gets Better” program, a program designed to keep gay kids from committing suicide in response to bullying, is really a sinister program designed to “convert” straight kids to a “homosexual lifestyle.”

Would you really want to be part of a parade that they sponsored? To me, that would be like attending a “Racial Awareness Parade” sponsored by the KKK.

 

[Elizium23]

Honestly, I agree that Archbishop Cordileone was inappropriate for the SF area. He would fit a fullthroated conservative area quite well, but he is not very skilled at evangelization, which is what is needed in the SF area.

Yes, because what every diocese needs is a yes-man, someone who will affirm us in all of our ways. Someone who makes us feel comfortable and warm and content. Someone who won’t make us work too hard for holiness because that is an unreasonable goal.

If someone needs a specific example of why Archbishop Cordileone is a bad fit for SF, a good example is his refusal to recognize an orthodox gay or lesbian Catholic group because they refused to stop using the words “gay” and “lesbian.”

ncronline.org/news/spirituality/gay-ministry-group-refuses-sign-oath

While I did not expect an article by the National Schismatic Reporter to be accurate or balanced, I was dismayed to find that even you have misrepresented them as “orthodox” and lied about the key point written here. The members of this ministry refuse to sign an oath of fidelity to Catholic teaching. That is why they’re being denied. Not because of the reason you said.

Here are some more articles about CALGM, where their true colors shine through.

Speaker at L.A. archdiocese conference says Catholic teaching on homosexuality is ‘abusive’ and ‘gravely evil’
Video series sponsored by Jesuits promotes homosexuality
Archdiocese quashes Lesbian and Gay Ministries dinner at Minneapolis Catholic parish

Another example is how he declined calls to step down from a parade that was organized and participated in by anti-gay hate groups.

sfgate.com/lgbt/article/S-F-archbishop-March-for-Marriage-is-not-5557050.php

These actions just make gay people feel unwelcome in the Church, which should be a non-starter for an archbishop for San Francisco.

“anti-gay hate” by homosexualist standards. I don’t think +Cordileone really cares what the SPLC says about the state of things.

Edit: I want to make clear I am not attacking his character. I am sure he means well for all his parishioners (and all San Franciscans). But his strategies are not a good fit for San Francisco; they are isolating.

Edit: I want to make clear I am not attacking his character. I am sure he means well for all his disciples (and all Judeans). But his strategies are not a good fit for Israel; they are isolating. Crucify him!

 

[zz912]

Honestly, I agree that Archbishop Cordileone was inappropriate for the SF area. He would fit a fullthroated conservative area quite well, but he is not very skilled at evangelization, which is what is needed in the SF area.

Why are the people of San Francisco undeserving of hearing and receiving the full and entire Catholic faith?

 

[McCall1981]

Here’s a good piece by George Weigel on Archbp Cordileone:

catholicworldreport.com/Blog/3742/keeping_catholic_schools_catholic.aspx

 

[FollowChrist34]

Here’s a good piece by George Weigel on Archbp Cordileone:

catholicworldreport.com/Blog/3742/keeping_catholic_schools_catholic.aspx

Thanks McCall. This is great.

 

[JimG]

Here’s a good piece by George Weigel on Archbp Cordileone:

catholicworldreport.com/Blog/3742/keeping_catholic_schools_catholic.aspx

An interesting article. I liked this turn of phrase:

"Pressures flowing from that judicial fantasy will make it clear, save to the willfully blind, that while you might not be interested in the culture war, the culture war is interested in you—and it isn’t going to leave you in peace until you surrender, or until America regains its senses and rejects what Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger dubbed the “dictatorship of relativism.” "

No sign yet that America is on the verge of regaining its senses, but surrender is not an option.

 

[SMGS127]

Edit: I want to make clear I am not attacking his character. I am sure he means well for all his disciples (and all Judeans). But his strategies are not a good fit for Israel; they are isolating. Crucify him!

I was going to respond to your post until you posted this, Elizium. You’re better than this. I don’t respond to inflammatory posts, especially not posts that suggest that I would have crucified Christ. How low can you go, seriously?

 

[Havard]

SMGS. I have talked with him many times, personally. About these issues. He is very loving, and he definitely loves gay people. He makes a point to visit with gay folks at Most Holy Redeemer parish in the Castro (the epicenter of gay Catholicism in SF). I’ve never seen this reported anywhere. I only know because it came up on a conversation I was having with him.

Please take a step back and consider that most of the unflattering coverage of him cherrypicks his statements and actions. He is not a “conservative” - for example, has been outspoken about pathways to citizenship for illegal immigrants. He goes to our local homeless shelters more than his “supposedly liberal” predecessors. (BTW, I loathe these “liberal/ conservative” labels people try to attach to our ordinaries.) He is simply faithful to Church teaching, and because of this, there is a personal agenda against him.

 

[Havard]

I would hope, instead, that the pope does whatever the right thing is.
If this Archbishop is doing things he should not be doing, like adding clauses to the teacher-student handbooks that are indeed “mean-spirited”, he should be told by higher-ups to stop.

.

Oh come on, DaddyGirl. Why would you mention “mean spirited” by this point? I and others have been providing links to his full statements for the last two months. I know you’ve been privy to these discussions.

We can debate the prudence of his decisions, but there is not one shred of evidence of “mean-spiritedness”.

 

[Elizium23]

Blessed are the mean in spirit, for they shall be bullied by rich people.

 

[Seamus_L]

The so called “It Get’s Better” program was created by militant homosexual columnist Dan Savage, who has talked openly about his wanting to sexually assault Rick Santorum. The man, in no uncertain terms is a pervert.

 

[SMGS127]

SMGS. I have talked with him many times, personally. About these issues. He is very loving, and he definitely loves gay people. He makes a point to visit with gay folks at Most Holy Redeemer parish in the Castro (the epicenter of gay Catholicism in SF). I’ve never seen this reported anywhere. I only know because it came up on a conversation I was having with him.

Please take a step back and consider that most of the unflattering coverage of him cherrypicks his statements and actions. He is not a “conservative” - for example, has been outspoken about pathways to citizenship for illegal immigrants. He goes to our local homeless shelters more than his “supposedly liberal” predecessors. (BTW, I loathe these “liberal/ conservative” labels people try to attach to our ordinaries.) He is simply faithful to Church teaching, and because of this, there is a personal agenda against him.

I want to give him the benefit of the doubt, especially because he is an Archbishop, and I truly believe he has the best wishes of his congregation in mind, but his attitude towards the so-called “March for Marriage” parade and CALGM really disappointed me. Again, I believe he cares about gay people, but I don’t think he realizes how callous and uncaring some of his actions come across as.

Was it truly necessary for him to march in the parade? Could he not have requested that the sponsors withdraw themselves or created his own parade instead?

Was it truly necessary for him to force CALGM, and only CALGM, to sign an oath swearing allegiance to the Church, despite verbal commitments on the part of all higher-ups to Church teaching, merely because they refused to cease using the words “gay” and “lesbian” and other phrasing (“being proud of being gay,” etc.) that, while not at odds with Catholic teaching, sounds at odds to conservatives who see being gay as a behavior, not an orientation?

I know he cares. I just wish he’d see how he comes across and adjust his behavior to show his compassion more. If he’s incapable of that, then I don’t think he should be stationed in an area that needs that outward compassion (more of a Pope Francis style of tough love) and evangelization more than anything.

 

[Elizium23]

Was it truly necessary for him to force CALGM, and only CALGM, to sign an oath swearing allegiance to the Church, despite verbal commitments on the part of all higher-ups to Church teaching, merely because they refused to cease using the words “gay” and “lesbian” and other phrasing (“being proud of being gay,” etc.) that, while not at odds with Catholic teaching, sounds at odds to conservatives who see being gay as a behavior, not an orientation?

What about CALGM’s verbal commitments to denigrate Church teaching as “abusive” and “gravely evil”?

What about CALGM’s Arthur Fitzmaurice calling for forced acceptance of homosexual lifestyles in Catholic parishes?

What about Bishop Jaime Soto’s courageous support of Church teaching drawing silence from the crowd and an apology by a CALGM board member?

Website Review: Catholic Association for Lesbian and Gay Ministries

The Catholic Association for Lesbian and Gay Ministries - “CALGM” (formerly the National Association of Catholic Diocesan Lesbian and Gay Ministries - NACDLGM) was formed in 1994. Its self-stated mission reads thus: “Inspired by the Gospel of Jesus Christ and grounded in the Catholic moral and social justice tradition, the National Association of Catholic Diocesan Lesbian and Gay Ministries, as a resource and network, encourages pastoral care with lesbian and gay persons and their families.” Unfortunately, what this organization offers is directly contrary to true pastoral care. Rather than ministering to those with same-sex attractions, the NACDLGM only encourages a defiance of the Church’s teachings. A better resource for this issue is the Courage website.

Weaknesses
Fidelity: There is a consistent denial of the Church’s teaching on the objective sinfulness of homosexual acts. Example(s)
Fidelity: There is no mention on the site of the essential “call to chastity”. Example(s)
Fidelity: The links section includes many secular, pro-gay activist organizations.

 

[SMGS127]

What about CALGM’s verbal commitments to denigrate Church teaching as “abusive” and “gravely evil”?

That was a LifeSiteNews spin. There’s a reason LSN is discouraged from being cited on CAF. CALGM actually asked the Church to put the teaching on homosexuality somewhere else in the Catechism, rather than right next to prostitution and rape.

From your link:

The site consistently uses the terms “lesbian” and “gay” Catholics, rather than the term “persons with same-sex attractions”. There is a fundamental flaw in using this terminology when speaking about persons with same-sex attractions. Using the terms “lesbian” and “gay” implies that this condition is somehow an intrinsic part of the person, rather than an objectively disordered passion and contrary to natural law.

There is a consistent call to welcome “lesbian and gay Catholics” into full communion with the Church. The mission statement says, “This ministry respects the human dignity and human rights of lesbian and gay persons, and affirms that all who are baptized are called to full participation in the life, worship and mission of the Church.” There is no clarification concerning the need for acceptance of Church teaching and a life of chastity in order to be worthy to receive the Eucharist.

One of the hosts of a NACDLGM conference states to the media, “There is still this attitude that being gay is a sin; there is still a medical model that homosexuality is an illness.” The context of the article clearly indicates that the speakers believes otherwise.

The list could go on.

Need I repeat myself that criticism of them is ENTIRELY based on their usage of gay and lesbian terminology?

What about CALGM’s Arthur Fitzmaurice calling for forced acceptance of homosexual lifestyles in Catholic parishes?

Reference?

What about Bishop Jaime Soto’s courageous support of Church teaching drawing silence from the crowd and an apology by a CALGM board member?

Reference?

 

[Havard]

I want to give him the benefit of the doubt, especially because he is an Archbishop, and I truly believe he has the best wishes of his congregation in mind, but his attitude towards the so-called “March for Marriage” parade and CALGM really disappointed me. Again, I believe he cares about gay people, but I don’t think he realizes how callous and uncaring some of his actions come across as.

Was it truly necessary for him to march in the parade? Could he not have requested that the sponsors withdraw themselves or created his own parade instead?

Was it truly necessary for him to force CALGM, and only CALGM, to sign an oath swearing allegiance to the Church, despite verbal commitments on the part of all higher-ups to Church teaching, merely because they refused to cease using the words “gay” and “lesbian” and other phrasing (“being proud of being gay,” etc.) that, while not at odds with Catholic teaching, sounds at odds to conservatives who see being gay as a behavior, not an orientation?

I know he cares. I just wish he’d see how he comes across and adjust his behavior to show his compassion more. If he’s incapable of that, then I don’t think he should be stationed in an area that needs that outward compassion (more of a Pope Francis style of tough love) and evangelization more than anything.

I’d say he does, but his addresses released to the media are limited. Keep in mind that he’s been without a communications director during all of this. I know they are looking for one, but as far as I’m aware, the spot is still vacant. So that’s a real handicap. And no, he’s not as media-savvy as say Cardinal Dolan, but he certainly does express compassion in his homilies and talks to schools, etc.

BTW, thank you for giving him the benefit of the doubt. That’s all I want to see, that people try to see each other for the good they are, past all the rhetoric.

 

[Elizium23]

What about CALGM’s verbal commitments to denigrate Church teaching as “abusive” and “gravely evil”?

Crux:

The paragraph on homosexuality — which describes it as “intrinsically disordered” while also demanding respect for gays and lesbians — is placed in a section of the catechism paragraphs condemning “pornography, prostitution, and rape,” he said.

“To keep this abusive language in the Catechism and other Church writings is, in itself, gravely evil,” he said.

What about CALGM’s Arthur Fitzmaurice calling for forced acceptance of homosexual lifestyles in Catholic parishes?

Fitzmaurice says that his group only wants “to create a Church where all are welcome at all parishes. And once they’re there, not just being welcomed, but a place where they’re going to thrive.”

What about Bishop Jaime Soto’s courageous support of Church teaching drawing silence from the crowd and an apology by a CALGM board member?

To organizers’ surprise, however, Soto took the opportunity to point out that any sexual activity outside marriage between a man and a woman is sinful.

“Sexual relations between people of the same sex can be alluring for homosexuals but it deviates from the true meaning of the act and distracts them from the true nature of love to which God has called us all. For this reason, it is sinful,” he said.

Following the speech, which met with mostly silence from the audience, a board member of the association told the crowd, “on behalf of the board, I apologize. We had no idea Bishop Soto was going to say what he said.”

 

[SMGS127]

What about CALGM’s verbal commitments to denigrate Church teaching as “abusive” and “gravely evil”?

Nowhere in there did they denigrate Church teaching. They just suggested it was harmful to evangelization to include teachings on homosexuality next to teachings on rape.

What about CALGM’s Arthur Fitzmaurice calling for forced acceptance of homosexual lifestyles in Catholic parishes?

I think you need to rewatch that entire video. Nowhere in there did he say that. “Being gay” does not mean “having sex with members of the same sex.” It is not sinful to be gay in the Catholic Church. It is also not sinful to be openly gay in the Catholic Church. And it should not be shameful to be openly gay in the Catholic Church. All of these statements are Catholic teaching.

What about Bishop Jaime Soto’s courageous support of Church teaching drawing silence from the crowd and an apology by a CALGM board member?

I am getting off work right now; will respond later.

 

[Havard]

Some excepts that I like, from a talk given by Archbishop Cordileone:

“The virtue of humility is the regular disposition and practice by which a person acknowledges his or her true defects and gifts, and in light of those, submits to God’s will and to the good of others for God’s sake. That is, the person accepts the fundamental reality of both imperfection and God inviting the person to use his or her gifts to praise God and serve others.”

"[C]hastity is the constant disposition to love another person the way that person should be loved, corresponding to the person’s intrinsic human dignity. This takes us far beyond the very superficial understanding of chastity which sees it as simply “no sex outside of marriage.”

“Chastity as genuine love (not merely physical attraction) for another person stresses the person’s willingness to extend oneself to the utmost limits to do things that are for the good of another person. A necessary characteristic to act always with this motivation is that one must be selfless.”