Prominent Catholics call on pope to oust S.F. archbishop

[ffg]

He would fit a fullthroated conservative area quite well, but he is not very skilled at evangelization, which is what is needed in the SF area.

These actions just make gay people feel unwelcome in the Church, which should be a non-starter for an archbishop for San Francisco.

Truth is needed everywhere, is that not evangelization?

Every person who sins, which happens to be everybody, if we made our sin known to everybody, we should ‘feel’ (insert negative feeling here).

Thus we would do something to not feel (insert negative feeling here). Confession?

This is why most people’s sin is private. We don’t want others to know our wrongs, and we can keep doing them comfortably.

Some people live in sin publicly and ‘try’ to portray sinfulness as neutral, good or even healthy.

In this case, to not feel (insert negative feeling here), certain folks want to have the source of Truth NOT preach Truth.

The result - The source of Truth is going to preach Truth, and those that want to live in sin publicly will feel (insert negative feeling here) until they seek help for their actions.

Grace makes one feel uncomfortable with sin. It seems this is what is being splashed into SF with this AB.

The ‘prominent’ “Catholics” should know in the least - God wins.

 

[Elizium23]

I have to confess my own uncharitable thoughts. I’m experiencing a bit of schadenfreude from watching all this unfold from afar. The Church’s opponents are emboldened because of who they think Pope Francis is. They know they don’t have a shred of a real reason to oust +Cordileone, so they call him “mean-spirited”. Yet he lives a humble lifestyle and has the smell of the sheep; the Holy Father will realize that this is the right person for the right place and time. +Cordileone will be under much spiritual attack and definitely needs our prayers. But it is fun watching the dissenters grind their teeth and murumur against him in this way. They thought that going public would arouse a public outcry against the Archbishop, and instead it’s caused a tsunami of support, with Facebook pages like this, petitions to be signed, and a family picnic! Now how can you diss a guy whose supporters throw picnics with bouncy houses?

 

[McCall1981]

I have to confess my own uncharitable thoughts. I’m experiencing a bit of schadenfreude from watching all this unfold from afar. The Church’s opponents are emboldened because of who they think Pope Francis is. They know they don’t have a shred of a real reason to oust +Cordileone, so they call him “mean-spirited”. Yet he lives a humble lifestyle and has the smell of the sheep; the Holy Father will realize that this is the right person for the right place and time. +Cordileone will be under much spiritual attack and definitely needs our prayers. But it is fun watching the dissenters grind their teeth and murumur against him in this way. They thought that going public would arouse a public outcry against the Archbishop, and instead it’s caused a tsunami of support, with Facebook pages like this, petitions to be signed, and a family picnic! Now how can you diss a guy whose supporters throw picnics with bouncy houses?

Yup, I posted this earlier, but its pretty great (and keep in mind this is from SFgate, a strongly secular, anti-Catholic publication):

catholicworldreport.com/Blog/3823/diocese_of_san_francisco_when_the_thugs_get_beaten_up.aspx

"To reinforce the impact of the appeal’s publication, SFGate also launched a questionnaire with four pre-determined answers—two pro and two con—to this question: Should Pope Francis remove Archbishop Cordileone from the San Francisco archdiocese?

And what came of it? The overwhelming majority lined up not to fire the archbishop, but to defend him.

For the sake of accuracy, at noon on Sunday, April 19th, here are the results of the questionnaire:

77% answered: “No, the archbishop is upholding the values of the Catholic Church.”

11%: “Yes, the archbishop is fostering a climate of intolerance.”

10%: “No, the archbishop is right to oppose same-sex marriage.”

2%: “Yes, his morality clauses for teachers in parochial schools defies the law.”

 

[Jon_S_1]

I Now how can you diss a guy whose supporters throw picnics with bouncy houses?

Great point. You can’t help but smile in a bounce house… Attacking the bounce house guy is like kicking a puppy!

 

[PTL]

And the Marin nuns walk out of school to protest gay-rights group is also a support to the Archbishop in action.

I and many others I know have been praying Rosary for the Archbishop daily. Even we don’t walk on the street, our prayers are good support.

Please pray the Rosary for our Church, our Pope, all our priests, the coming Supreme Court hearing on marriage, the coming Synod, and all important issues along with your own needs daily. Mother Mary is the most powerful intercessor, Rosary is the most powerful spiritual weapon. Praying one Rosary with** all** your intentions suffices a lot.

Do daily Rosary for this decaying world. Oh, also remember to include those who think they have compassion for gay but actually rebel our Lord’s teaching. Pray for those people’s repentance. We do not want to see them go to eternal damnation. Present all the intentions in the beginning or at the end of the Rosary and you achieve a great deal of charity.

 

[Brandon_Cal]

What I mean is that this appointment was a disaster waiting to happen. The good sisters have nothing to do with personnel issues. Those of you who are in large business situations “know” that it does make a difference who your CEO is in regards to the environment and work ethics at said organization. The AB rode into The City with both guns drawn and an attitude of “SF is evil”. You don’t think that this attitude was a slap in the face to the Catholic family, both lay and religious? I’m sure that the good AB really believes that he is a Knight on his steed riding in to save that Whore of Babylon, San Francisco, but SF has been a Catholic enclave for 165 years and does not need saving. The LGBTQ citizens are not going to move and their families and friends are no going to change their heartfelt beliefs about the situation.

I’d ask you the same question EIF5A asked:

What makes a bishop more pastoral in terms of LGBT issues? For instance, what does he have to do or profess to make him pastoral to the Catholic community in San Francisco?

So far it seems the only person in this thread with intimate knowledge of Archbishop Cordileone is Havard who has already given examples of the character and personality of the archbishop. I believe it was also him(her?) who posted SFGate links showing how the city has turned against the previous two bishops in the past, despite their initial gushing feelings for them. Don’t you think its more likely the case that it doesn’t matter who the archbishop is? So long as the Catholic Church teaches against libertine sexual morality and her bishops insist on not shutting up and toeing the party line San Francisco (and places like it) are going to attack the shepherds of the Catholic Church.

I notice you live in NorCal, may I ask how familiar you are with the cultural climate in San Francisco? Have you ever heard of the “Hunky Jesus Contest” that is celebrated in Dolores Park every Easter Sunday, or the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence who are absolutely adored by not only the average resident but many members of the city board of supervisors? Are you familiar with the city resolution that passed unanimously in 2006 against the Archdiocese of San Francisco and the Vatican City State that insisted that Archbishop Niederauer should defy the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith for its position on same-sex adoptions?

The “pastoral” route has already been taken and has blown up (badly I might add) in the Catholic Church’s face. These people aren’t looking for tolerance and understanding. Don’t be fooled, they wan’t nothing less than the Catholic Church in San Francisco to cease being Catholic.

 

[McCall1981]

I’d ask you the same question EIF5A asked:

So far it seems the only person in this thread with intimate knowledge of Archbishop Cordileone is Havard who has already given examples of the character and personality of the archbishop. I believe it was also him(her?) who posted SFGate links showing how the city has turned against the previous two bishops in the past, despite their initial gushing feelings for them. Don’t you think its more likely the case that it doesn’t matter who the archbishop is? So long as the Catholic Church teaches against libertine sexual morality and her bishops insist on not shutting up and toeing the party line San Francisco (and places like it) are going to attack the shepherds of the Catholic Church.

I notice you live in NorCal, may I ask how familiar you are with the cultural climate in San Francisco? Have you ever heard of the “Hunky Jesus Contest” that is celebrated in Dolores Park every Easter Sunday, or the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence who are absolutely adored by not only the average resident but many members of the city board of supervisors? Are you familiar with the city resolution that passed unanimously in 2006 against the Archdiocese of San Francisco and the Vatican City State that insisted that Archbishop Niederauer should defy the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith for its position on same-sex adoptions?

The “pastoral” route has already been taken and has blown up (badly I might add) in the Catholic Church’s face. These people aren’t looking for tolerance and understanding. Don’t be fooled, they wan’t nothing less than the Catholic Church in San Francisco to cease being Catholic.

For what its worth, Archbp Cordileone was my Bishop in Oakland for several years, and is now my Archbp in SF (he also appointed my current Bishop Barber). I certainly don’t know him very well or anything, but I’ve (briefly) met him several times, and followed his career these past few years. I’m also fully familiar with the unfortunate cultural climate of SF.

IMO, he is exactly what SF needs. He’s had a fantastic effect on the Diocese, schools, the liturgy, religious life, etc. He went well out of his way to help the Carmelite sisters set up their new monestary here. I have never seen or heard of him being anything other than compassionate and faithful. I thank God for him, and thank God that Bp Barber (incidently the first Jesuit made Bishop by Francis) is following in his footsteps as an excellent Bishop.

 

[Elizium23]

+Cordileone has sent his regrets and will not attend this year’s March for Marriage. This comes in advance of several important Supreme Court decisions.

 

[McCall1981]

+Cordileone has sent his regrets and will not attend this year’s March for Marriage. This comes in advance of several important Supreme Court decisions.

Too bad he can’t go, but I think it’s even better that Archbp Kurtz will be there. The fact that the President of the USCCB will be there demonstrates that this event is not just supported by Archbp Cordileone, but by the US Bishops as a whole.

 

[Dawnia]

Too bad he can’t go, but I think it’s even better that Archbp Kurtz will be there. The fact that the President of the USCCB will be there demonstrates that this event is not just supported by Archbp Cordileone, but by the US Bishops as a whole.

The USCCB is on the list of sponsors for the event.

 

[Tigg]

The “pastoral” route has already been taken and has blown up (badly I might add) in the Catholic Church’s face. These people aren’t looking for tolerance and understanding. Don’t be fooled, they wan’t nothing less than the Catholic Church in San Francisco to cease being Catholic.

This is unquestionably obvious to the Catholic majority.

 

[SavannahGal]

The “pastoral” route has already been taken and has blown up (badly I might add) in the Catholic Church’s face. These people aren’t looking for tolerance and understanding. Don’t be fooled, they wan’t nothing less than the Catholic Church in San Francisco to cease being Catholic.

Would you please be so kind as to clarify the above statement. What is this “pastoral route” to which you are referring? And how has it “blown up in the Catholic Church’s face?”

I ask for clarification because my understanding of pastoral care is that it is a responsibility of the Church that does not include the option of extending or withholding it based upon political climate or any other social variability.

Your comment would seem to suggest that there is some sort of middle ground upon which the Church has been willing to meet in the spirit of tolerance and understanding but that the gay community has completely rejected. So I’m curious as to what you see as this middle ground. What is the reasonable compromise that gay people should be willing to accept in the spirit of tolerance and understanding?

 

[Pulvis]

This is unquestionably obvious to the Catholic majority.

 

[Pulvis]

Would you please be so kind as to clarify the above statement. What is this “pastoral route” to which you are referring? And how has it “blown up in the Catholic Church’s face?”

I ask for clarification because my understanding of pastoral care is that it is a responsibility of the Church that does not include the option of extending or withholding it based upon political climate or any other social variability.

Your comment would seem to suggest that there is some sort of middle ground upon which the Church has been willing to meet in the spirit of tolerance and understanding but that the gay community has completely rejected. So I’m curious as to what you see as this middle ground. What is the reasonable compromise that gay people should be willing to accept in the spirit of tolerance and understanding?

Well I cannot speak for Tigg, but I would imagine the Pastoral approach should go like this:

The Gospel of St. John, Ch. 8
"[6] And this they said tempting him, that they might accuse him. But Jesus bowing himself down, wrote with his finger on the ground. [7] When therefore they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said to them: He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. [8] And again stooping down, he wrote on the ground. [9] But they hearing this, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest. **And Jesus alone remained, and the woman standing in the midst. [10] Then Jesus lifting up himself, said to her: Woman, where are they that accused thee? Hath no man condemned thee?

[11] Who said: No man, Lord. And Jesus said: Neither will I condemn thee. Go, and now sin no more." **

The need for repentance and modification of one’s life is what the Church has always taught. One must accept the teachings of the Church and repent.

 

[Zzyzx_Road]

[11] Who said: No man, Lord. And Jesus said: Neither will I condemn thee. Go, and now sin no more."

The need for repentance and modification of one’s life is what the Church has always taught. One must accept the teachings of the Church and repent.
The gay lobby will not accept that bit about “sin no more”. Really no compromise there for them unless the Catholic among them take chastity seriously. Which is a small minority of them. So I don’t really see the point since the gays won’t. Compassion, certainly. But compassion only goes so far in the face of continued sinning. The gays mostly want to remain in their sin.

 

[FollowChrist34]

The gay lobby will not accept that bit about “sin no more”. Really no compromise there for them unless the Catholic among them take chastity seriously. Which is a small minority of them. So I don’t really see the point since the gays won’t. Compassion, certainly. But compassion only goes so far in the face of continued sinning. The gays mostly want to remain in their sin.

I agree with you. But the thing I keep forgetting and need to remember is that a lot of times they are in a really tough situation for a variety of reasons. It is REALLY hard to be gay I think. We need to remember this, especially that there is a lot of pain involved (and, no, it is not just rejection from others). This suffering hardens into self-righteousness; this happens in us all, just in different ways from different things, right? I am certainly not lecturing you personally; I am just saying it helps me to remember this. I do better if I understand someone I disagree with in a particular situation, such as this one with Cordileone and those opposing him.

 

[EIF5A]

The gay lobby will not accept that bit about “sin no more”. Really no compromise there for them unless the Catholic among them take chastity seriously. Which is a small minority of them. So I don’t really see the point since the gays won’t. Compassion, certainly. But compassion only goes so far in the face of continued sinning. The gays mostly want to remain in their sin.

I don’t think the “gay lobby” (or the rest of the secular world for that matter) acknowledges sin so the “sin no more” is an alien concept.

Gay Christians who are involved in unchaste relationships don’t believe they are sinning. They might think “sin no more” doesn’t apply to them since there’s no sin to begin with.

But I don’t think someone who is fully cognizant of sin wants to remain in sin, although we might find it hard to break away from sinful pleasures.

The attitude is, “Sin? What sin?”

Not quite sure how to respond to that…

 

[Zzyzx_Road]

I agree with you. But the thing I keep forgetting and need to remember is that a lot of times they are in a really tough situation for a variety of reasons. It is REALLY hard to be gay I think. We need to remember this, especially that there is a lot of pain involved (and, no, it is not just rejection from others). This suffering hardens into self-righteousness; this happens in us all, just in different ways from different things, right? I am certainly not lecturing you personally; I am just saying it helps me to remember this. I do better if I understand someone I disagree with in a particular situation, such as this one with Cordileone and those opposing him.

I have a great deal of compassion for the gay, among others afflicted by some disorder or other. They didn’t ask to be this way, they just are and along those lines, I pray for the salvation of their souls. But that doesn’t relieve the Catholic in me of the obligation to see the sin for what it is.

 

[FollowChrist34]

I have a great deal of compassion for the gay, among others afflicted by some disorder or other. They didn’t ask to be this way, they just are and along those lines, I pray for the salvation of their souls. But that doesn’t relieve the Catholic in me of the obligation to see the sin for what it is.

This is my view exactly.

 

[PTL]

We need to remember this, especially that there is a lot of pain involved (and, no, it is not just rejection from others). This suffering hardens into self-righteousness;

Keep in mind how AIDS are developed. Homosexuals experience pain not only from rejection from others. Anything violates God’s natural law brings severe consequence and pain. Like you said, the pain of the homosexuals are not only from rejection from others. Deep down they know they are in disorder, but they want the public to acknowledge this abnormal as normal. Like you said, this suffering hardens their heart and become self-righteousness. However, no matter how they want to twist the reality and no matter how the public twist the reality along with them - call a non-marriage marriage, call gay straight, deep down they know that is not true. That’s why their pain is endless. Even gay marriage will not release their pain.

Only turth can set us free. A human being needs to acknowledge truth and follow the truth to be happy and free. We can never call “black” “white” and pretend to be happy. Follow Christ’s teaching and strive for holiness according to the Scripture’s teaching is the only way to be free and happy. Therefore,“Sin No more!”!