Proof for praying to saints

[Realcatholicgk]

I just can’t in good conscience join a church that lets pro-abort politicians defile the body and blood of Jesus Christ by allowing them to remain in the church and take communion. Unrepentant killers who take pride in their killing don’t belong in the church.

**Hi Chris,

Chris, You know I agree with you, in theory! And when I become Pope I will change it! But let me say this, People who love life and are willing to demand that our church makes changed do belong in the church. We must demand that the church makes changes. It does listen to the people, we are the church! However, outsiders are just that!~ They should mind their own business and their own denominations. And like Jesus said, just before being hit in the head by a stone His mother threw , “Let ye, who are without sin, cast the first stone!”

"Well, you seeJesus, I was going to join your real church. I really was. I knew it was the real church, but they were allowing pro-abort politicians to defile your body and blood by allowing them to remain in the church and take communion. You want me to take them politicians with me and go where? But…But… Sigh… Come on guys, follow me! "

God Bless**

 

[Chris_LaRock]

**Hi Chris,

Chris, You know I agree with you, in theory! And when I become Pope I will change it! But let me say this, People who love life and are willing to demand that our church makes changed do belong in the church. We must demand that the church makes changes. It does listen to the people, we are the church! However, outsiders are just that!~ They should mind their own business and their own denominations. And like Jesus said, just before being hit in the head by a stone His mother threw , “Let ye, who are without sin, cast the first stone!”

"Well, you seeJesus, I was going to join your real church. I really was. I knew it was the real church, but they were allowing pro-abort politicians to defile your body and blood by allowing them to remain in the church and take communion. You want me to take them politicians with me and go where? But…But… Sigh… Come on guys, follow me! "

God Bless**

How can it be the true church, and be a haven for murderers at the same time?

 

[Realcatholicgk]

How can it be the true church, and be a haven for murderers at the same time?

**
Hi Chris,

You appear to be an Ignoranus! That is a two part word! The people are the church! Humans are sinners. Saints are in heaven! So this is an error in reasoning.
The CC is the true church because Jesus made it so. It isn’t a haven for murderers.Our teaching command against it so they find no refuge in our church.
How many murderers are there in the Catholic church?
Is it the only church that has that problem?
Is it because the church is evil or because people are human? Can you confess that you don’t even believe in Jesus?
Is the USA the land of the free with people in jail?

It is apparent from your posts that you are self - centered and corrupted in your thinking. You argue again Jesus himself! It really seems that you suffer from a deficient view of the Church. How foolish.

merry Christmas, Jesus loves you!

God Bless**

 

[guanophore]

Once the pro-abort/pro-gay “marriage”, ect. politicians are publically excommunicated - then I can convert with a clear conscience.

Ok, Chris, You might also want to consider entering seminary now, so that you can get to be a bishop quicker, and thereby perform these excommunications that are so important to you that you cannot recognize they have already happened! You seem to want to put certiain persons to public shame, though they have adequately already done so on their own. Perhaps they can build you a stock when you take over your diocese?
In the meantime, can you try to stay on topic?

 

[guanophore]

How can it be the true church, and be a haven for murderers at the same time?

Chris, the Church does not promote or protect murders. However, we all are capable of murder, and some people that have committed murder are members of the Church. If they don’t repent of this sin, and live a life worthy of repentance, they will go to hell. There is no “haven” for them in the pew of a Catholic Church, or even if they sacriligiously take communion in such a state. They eat and drink condemnation upon themselves.

1 Cor 11:27-29

27 Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord. 28 Let a man examine himself, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself.

This is the teaching of the Church. Anyone who approaches the sacrament in an unworthy manner, whether their sin is known to the public, or not.

 

[Chris_LaRock]

Ok, Chris, You might also want to consider entering seminary now, so that you can get to be a bishop quicker, and thereby perform these excommunications that are so important to you that you cannot recognize they have already happened! You seem to want to put certiain persons to public shame, though they have adequately already done so on their own. Perhaps they can build you a stock when you take over your diocese?
In the meantime, can you try to stay on topic?

A Bishop? Cool. I promise not to be a ‘pawn’ in bad behavior. (chess joke)

These “cafeteria Catholics” take pride in the fact that they are both Catholic and pro-death at the same time. I just think it would make sense to burst their little bubble of arrogance by ousting them officially. The message a lot of us are getting is that one can be an unrepentant sinner, and remain Catholic.

 

[BMSODM]

Once the pro-abort/pro-gay “marriage”, ect. politicians are publically excommunicated - then I can convert with a clear conscience.

Blessings Chris and I pray God’s grace upon you as we get ready to celebrate Our Lords Birth…Happy Birthday Jesus!!!

You keep leaning on your own understanding…You are refuting Jesus’ words. You need to argue with the shepard not the sheep.

Mt 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

God bless you****

 

[Chris_LaRock]

**
Hi Chris,

You appear to be an Ignoranus! That is a two part word! The people are the church! Humans are sinners. Saints are in heaven! So this is an error in reasoning.

(I’m not ignoring, just bothered that such people aren’t asked to leave.)**

The CC is the true church because Jesus made it so. It isn’t a haven for murderers.Our teaching command against it so they find no refuge in our church.
How many murderers are there in the Catholic church?
Is it the only church that has that problem?
Is it because the church is evil or because people are human?

(I strongly suspect the church is turning seeker-friendly and is making comprimises, like most protestant denominations have become.)

Can you confess that you don’t even believe in Jesus?
Is the USA the land of the free with people in jail?

(and prison are secular excommunication, where bad people are excommunicated from the rest of society.)

It is apparent from your posts that you are self - centered and corrupted in your thinking. You argue again Jesus himself! It really seems that you suffer from a deficient view of the Church. How foolish.

(I wouldn’t say that. I think it’s blasphemy against Jesus to allow unrepentant sinners to stay in his church.)

merry Christmas, Jesus loves you!

God Bless

 

[RobbyS]

Chris_LaRock:
It does appear that the Church is fearful of losing numbers and fearful of losing its last influence over the elites who dominate our culture.

 

[Chris_LaRock]

It does appear that the Church is fearful of losing numbers and fearful of losing its last influence over the elites who dominate our culture.

Is there a saint for prevention of apostacy?

 

[johnnydigit]

I’m intrigued. (Perhaps you 2 simply had a conversation that I missed.) Chris LaRock, do you consider the RCC to be “the one Church Jesus established that is protected by the Holy Spirit forever”, as johnnydigit has said? (And, if so, why aren’t you Catholic?)

also waiting for his answer.

Chris LaRock, is it, or isn’t it?

 

[johnnydigit]

It does appear that the Church is fearful of losing numbers and fearful of losing its last influence over the elites who dominate our culture.

His Church fears no one and no thing, only God. if it were to lose everything in her possession - every church, every dollar, and all but 5 of its members, it would not change any of its teachings. the Eucharist would remain the same. those 5 would continue. it would not compromise.

now you have a protestant church who loses it’s members, and you have a catastrophe that begs for a change to draw in more numbers. preachers losing members is a signal that their preaching is failing. they may even feel like failures and be shunned like a hollywood celebrity. time to reorganize, we’re losing money! they may even get replaced by a more “dynamic” preacher.

a Catholic priest sees only 1 person sitting in the pews, and he perseveres. no money? no problem. no influence? no problem. no elites? no problem. if there was but a single bird listening to the Gospel, he would be glad.

/rant

 

[NonCatholic]

What about praying to dead saints? Is there a difference between praying FOR versus praying TO?

How do we reconcile requesting intercession from anyone other than the Holy Spirit?

Romans 8:26
"In the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for {us} with groanings too deep for words; "

 

[mark_a]

The message a lot of us are getting is that one can be an unrepentant sinner, and remain Catholic.

Although I worry that you are correct, the Church has plenty of experience with excommunications and in her wisdom has decided not to use this approach yet.

 

[mark_a]

What about praying to dead saints?

Saints are more alive than you and I are.

Is there a difference between praying FOR versus praying TO?

Pray means ask. If someone asked you to pray for them would you do it?

Praying TO means asking someone to ask with you. The prayer of a righteous man avails much.

 

[Chris_LaRock]

also waiting for his answer.

Chris LaRock, is it, or isn’t it?

I have doubts that it is. I doubt Peter was the first Pope, or the majority of the NT would’ve been written by him - not St. Paul.

And of course, St. Paul rebukes Peter on an issue of morality in Galatians. The Pope is supposed to be infallible in issues of morality, and therefore Paul would have no right to rebuke the first Pope in an issue of morality. That would make him a heritic.

 

[Stephen_C]

I have doubts that it is. I doubt Peter was the first Pope, or the majority of the NT would’ve been written by him - not St. Paul.

And of course, St. Paul rebukes Peter on an issue of morality in Galatians. The Pope is supposed to be infallible in issues of morality, and therefore Paul would have no right to rebuke the first Pope in an issue of morality. That would make him a heritic.

Chris,
Here is a nice read on Papal Infallibility.

catholic.com/library/Papal_Infallibility.asp

 

[NonCatholic]

Prayer for the lost (still living and in sin) and those living godly lives is acceptable worship. Praying for the salvation of another is acceptable worship.

If the saints already in Heaven are omniscience and/or omnipresent, then they could hear you prayer, but they are not and cannot hear those prayers. This is why the Holy Spirit is our only intercessor given; and the best one as well.

Romans 8:26
"In the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for {us} with groanings too deep for words; "

There exists of no example in the New Testament whereas Jesus, the Apostles, not any disciples prayed to any other than God.

In other words praying can be a form of worship, praying to, the object of our prayer, can only be the God-Head, and since we don’t pray as we should, the we have the Holy Spirit to make intersession for us and He alone. Everything outside of this is not practical from a Scriptural stance.

Dear Heavenly Father, I pray that you will make my mother’s path straight and protect her as she travels to see us today. I ask this in the name of Jesus.

Father, I praise you and give thanks to for providing a competent doctor, which was able to fix my knee and I praise and thank you for the little pain I have felt…thanks Lord!

Father, I pray that will give consideration and extend you hand of grace unto salvation for my neighbors, Guy and Brook.

My Father in Heaven I pray for Pastor Steve’s father and for the doctors working on him, that you will divinely intervene in his treatment according to your will and purpose for his life.

I extend a salvation petition to you Father on behalf of cousin Brian who denies your existence and is living an immoral life; that you may show compassion and mercy on his soul by delivering up His soul and giving to your son for washing and regeneration; I asked and give thanks to you through my Lord Jesus Christ…Amen

 

[Realcatholicgk]

**
Hi Non,

Merry Christmas! **

Prayer for the lost (still living and in sin) and those living godly lives is acceptable worship. Praying for the salvation of another is acceptable worship.

There exists of no example in the New Testament whereas Jesus, the Apostles, not any disciples prayed to any other than God.
**
Where did you learn that? There sure are!**

In other words praying **can be **a form of worship, praying to, the object of our prayer, can only be the God-Head, and since we don’t pray as we should, the we have the Holy Spirit to make intersession for us and He alone. Everything outside of this is not practical from a Scriptural stance.

**Sure, It “can be” if praying to God or Jesus. But doesn’t have to be! It can be intercessionary prayer, So for the rest of your statement i must ask, Where did you learn that? your statements are lies!

Eph. 3:14-15- we are all one family (“Catholic”) in heaven and on earth, united together, as children of the Father, through Jesus Christ. Our brothers and sisters who have gone to heaven before us are not a different family. We are one and the same family. This is why, in the Apostles Creed, we profess a belief in the “communion of saints.” There cannot be a “communion” if there is no union. Loving beings, whether on earth or in heaven, are concerned for other beings, and this concern is reflected spiritually through prayers for one another. I know of the 61,000 counterfeit Protestants denominations that there are thousands that do believe in the communion of saints as taught by Christ! You may belong to one of the weird sects that deny more of Jesus’ teachings than others. It is so confusing, I wish you guys could just come back to the real faith and stop dividing and arguring and spliting and denying Jesus and His One, Holy and Apolostic church!

Eph. 1:22-23; 5:23-32; Col. 1:18,24 - this family is in Jesus Christ, the head of the body, which is the Church.

1 Cor. 12:12,27; Rom. 12:5; Col. 3:15; Eph. 4:4 - Catholics are supernaturally linked together with all the members of the one body of Christ, by our partaking of the real Eucharist.

Rom. 8:35-39 - therefore, death does not separate the family of God and the love of Christ. We are still united with each other, even beyond death.

Matt. 17:3; Mark 9:4; Luke 9:30 - Jesus" converses" with “deceased” Moses and Elijah. Following His example, Catholics and even some Protestants, converse with saints. They are more alive than the saints on earth.

Matt. 22:32; Mark 12:27; Luke 20:38 - God is the God of the living not the dead. The living on earth and in heaven are one family.

Luke 15:7,10 – if the angels and saints experience joy in heaven over our repentance, then they must still be connected to us and are aware of our behavior.

John 15:1-6 - Jesus is the vine and we are the branches. The good branches are not cut off at death. They are alive in heaven.

1 Cor. 4:9 – because we can become a spectacle not only to men, but to angels as well, this indicates that angels are aware of our earthly activity. Those in heaven are connected to those on earth.

1 Cor. 12:26 - when one member suffers, all suffer. When one is honored, all rejoice. We are in this together as one family. Even the Protestant Brethren who aren’t fully joined with the real body are still members of the Catholic church!

1 Cor 13:12; 1 John 3:2 - now we see in a mirror dimly, but in heaven we see face to face. The saints are more alive than we are!

Heb. 12:1: we are surrounded by a great glory cloud (shekinah) of witnesses. The “cloud of witnesses” refers to the saints who are not only watching us from above but cheering us on in our race to heaven.

1 Peter 2:9; Rev. 20:6 - we are a royal family of priests by virtue of baptism. We as priests intercede on behalf of each other.

Non, I will pray to the Blessed Mother and ask her to have her son answer your prayers.

Merry Christmas, May our lord and savior provide for you and your family during the coming year! May He bless and protect you. I ask this through Jesus who was born on Christmas day! God Bless! **

 

[Realcatholicgk]

A Bishop? Cool. I promise not to be a ‘pawn’ in bad behavior. (chess joke)

**Hi Chris,
Merry christmas Guy!

Dis you know that the number of possible ways of playing the first four moves per side in a game of chess is 318,979,564,000. **

These “cafeteria Catholics” take pride in the fact that they are both Catholic and pro-death at the same time. I just think it would make sense to burst their little bubble of arrogance by ousting them officially. The message a lot of us are getting is that one can be an unrepentant sinner, and remain Catholic

**
Chris, Did you forget? You aren’t Catholic! So as pteviousely recommended worry about your own faith first! We could then use your example to have our church follow your church’s lead. It is up to the membership to make changes not outsiders! God works in His own time, I am sure He will punish the USA and finally we will make changes that will glorify God once again!

Anyway, as you were told 8 times already, by 5 different people, you have heard the wrong message. They “automatically” excommunicate themselves** from the church. Therefore Jesus might say “I know you not…”! when they are judged. But until that time, They have a right to be saved by the graces of Jesus Christ just like you and me and all christians. When any catholic receives the Eucharist while not in a state of grace they commit a mortal sin, these are paid for at judgement.

Merry Christmas, May our lord and savior provide for you and your family during the coming year! May He bless and protect you. I ask this through Jesus who was born on Christmas day! God Bless!