Properly Catecized Catholics

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LeahInancsi:
I think focusing religious education during childhood and the teen years is a big part of the problem. Religion is not something that most kids find interesting. Minds wander and the information goes in one ear and out the other.

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Every Catholic parish I have ever lived in, worshipped in, or visited in nearly 60 years has had a religious education program for children through the parochial school or CCD/PSR, and and adult education program of some kind. In every one of those parishes the actual percentage of Catholics within their boundaries participating in parish life at all was small, and the actual number of actual parishioners participating, as adults or children, in any type of formal religious education (including systematic home or private study), was a fraction of those registered.

You can fault those parishes who succumbed to fashionable trends in RE and had less than ideal programs, but it is hard to see how you can blame the Church when adults, particularly parents who made a solemn promise at baptism to educate their children in the faith refuse to do so, and have no inclination to learn more themselves. We can teach the ones we reach, and we can always try to to a better job reaching people, but ultimately it is a matter of individual choice and motivation.
 
I would definitely agree that we need better education.

I’m 25 years old, so I’ve been through all the “horrors” of modern Catholic school. I found it very difficult to learn anything! I had different teachers every year, and they were almost all lay people (well-intentioned I’m sure, but they didn’t know anything). Our textbooks (in high school especially) were awful! Every year it seemed like we learned the opposite of whatever we learned the year before :mad:

I have several friends who went to all Catholic schools, and they don’t even understand basic things like the Real Presence, or that Christ physically rose from the dead. :eek:

I really wish the parishes would offer some extra education classes for this kind of thing. My dad was a convert to the faith about 12 years ago, and he says that the RCIA classes were terrible. He really wants to learn more, but he has a hard time learning from books and he’s not computer literate… :confused:

I thought going to a Catholic college would help…but my local “Catholic” college isn’t really religious at all! Only about 25% of students and teachers are even Catholic! And the diocese can’t even spare a priest to say mass there… 😦

Tif =8-)
 
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puzzleannie:
You can fault those parishes who succumbed to fashionable trends in RE and had less than ideal programs, but it is hard to see how you can blame the Church when adults, particularly parents who made a solemn promise at baptism to educate their children in the faith refuse to do so, and have no inclination to learn more themselves. We can teach the ones we reach, and we can always try to to a better job reaching people, but ultimately it is a matter of individual choice and motivation.
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You have a point. If 50% of the parish signed up for the Bible study class I mentioned or signed up to sit in on RCIA classes for a refresher, I doubt and hope our pastor would not turn them away.

I can only assume that when many parents make a solemn promise at baptism to educate their children in the faith it only goes as far as getting to kids to Mass once a week.
 
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puzzleannie:
… You can fault those parishes who succumbed to fashionable trends in RE and had less than ideal programs, but it is hard to see how you can blame the Church when adults, particularly parents who made a solemn promise at baptism to educate their children in the faith refuse to do so, and have no inclination to learn more themselves. We can teach the ones we reach, and we can always try to to a better job reaching people, but ultimately it is a matter of individual choice and motivation.
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I think you hit in on the head here. How many of us know people, no matter what their religious affiliation is, who just aren’t interested in growing spiritually? They figure that by going to church once a week they are fulfilling their spiritual obligation and then the rest of their week is filled with outside influences. Spirituality (which comes from within) is competing against the world which tempts us from the outside.

I would love to see more Catholics get excited about their faith. I feel like a kid in a candy store as I grow as a Catholic. There is so much to learn and to experience. The Eucharist is a gift from God, in my eyes. The traditions, the history … I can go on and on about what I feel like some Catholics take for granted, or worse, don’t even give a second thought as to the significance in their lives.

There has to be way to reach out to others, whether be it personal testimonies of converts or cradle Catholics, or a Sunday School of some sort … I don’t know.

As Dr. Phil says … “I want you to get excited about your life!”
 
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TraderTif:
I have several friends who went to all Catholic schools, and they don’t even understand basic things like the Real Presence, or that Christ physically rose from the dead. :eek:
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That is very scary. I’ve know those things since I was a child and I didn’t attend church.
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TraderTif:
I really wish the parishes would offer some extra education classes for this kind of thing. My dad was a convert to the faith about 12 years ago, and he says that the RCIA classes were terrible. He really wants to learn more, but he has a hard time learning from books and he’s not computer literate… :confused:
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I feel very fortunate that our RCIA director has a master’s degree in theology from Franciscan University in Stubenville, OH and planned to be a priest until he met his wife. If there’s somethng he doesn’t know, the assoc. pastor usually sits in on classes and there are several very enthusiastic Catholic volunteers to answer questions or research a question.
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TraderTif:
I thought going to a Catholic college would help…but my local “Catholic” college isn’t really religious at all! Only about 25% of students and teachers are even Catholic! And the diocese can’t even spare a priest to say mass there… 😦

Tif =8-)
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That’s an awful lot of money spent to come away feeling the way you do. At least you’re aware of your situation and are willing to seek out the knowledge on your own.
 
I got a ton of insight into the problem we have with catechesis from a book titled “A Generation Betrayed” by Eamonn Keane. It really outlines in detail how we got where we are…actually it made my blood boil.

The Baltimore Catechism was a great teaching tool, and taught the Faith. What we have now is “praxis”, kids are thought to think their way along, yadda yadda. What it ends up doing is teaching nothing concrete. It’s also based on Hegelian dialectic. Thomas Groome, a former priest now married, pretty much runs this show and is a professor at Boston College. Parenthetically he showed his face on O’Reilly recently bemoaning the Massachusettes bishop’s decision not to allow Catholic Charities to place adoptees with gays.

“A Generation Betrayed” also looks at the other “experts,” allies of Groome, who have wrecked our catechesis in the last 30 years. It is an eyeopener.
 
In defense of the Baltimore Catechism, I am using this with my children. We also use a book along with it to give more detail in the subject. I just wanted to assert that a lot of people HATE the B.C. but look at it this way, people my age have NO CLUE what their Faith is or what is expected of them. I think I would rather wante to know what is expected of me then to let our children fall into the mind that the Catholic Church has not spoken on a subject so they just figure out themselves. Just wanted to add that. Also, we had to drill our math facts, why not our faith@! 🙂
We pray you have a blessed Easter, we hope it is very special and peaceful.
Welcome Home
 
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bellesjoy:
Palmas85: to clarify; I asked if Leahinancsi was being confirmed only, because that was what the original post stated. This was clarified to be both baptism and confirmation, which means confession is not needed in this case.

If a person is baptised as a Christian prior to coming to the Catholic Church for RCIA seeking confirmation and eucharist, then confession would be in order. Please go back and read the posts and CCC 1310 cited.

congratulations to you, Leahinancsi!
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Yes, if already baptized then she could receive reconciliation but not being baptized yet it is unnnecesary and I’m not sure it is even proper to do so. I don’t recall ever seeing someone non-baptized receiving reconciliation.
 
H Opey:
In defense of the Baltimore Catechism, I am using this with my children. We also use a book along with it to give more detail in the subject. I just wanted to assert that a lot of people HATE the B.C. but look at it this way, people my age have NO CLUE what their Faith is or what is expected of them. I think I would rather wante to know what is expected of me then to let our children fall into the mind that the Catholic Church has not spoken on a subject so they just figure out themselves. Just wanted to add that. Also, we had to drill our math facts, why not our faith@! 🙂
We pray you have a blessed Easter, we hope it is very special and peaceful.
Welcome Home
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I haven’t heard anything bad about the Baltimore Catechism itself. It’s just they way it was taught by the last two generation of nuns (usually). My sponsor was taught by the nuns and they had her and her schoolmates terrified of the Church and of them (the nuns). They were afraid to ask questions or question teachings. It was “JUST DO IT!”.
 
I agree that Catholic schools really don’t reach the faith well at all anymore and are very secular. In my catholic high shcool the lay people contradicted each other as well and we were taught different things each year and even warned about it since th teachers would tell us how the next teacher we get is going to contradict everything he is going to tach us and then we can make our own decison. Those tow teachers really did not get along.
 
I understand completely what you’re saying. I entered the Church eight years ago, and almost all I’ve learned about the Catholic faith has been through my own personal study – very little from homilies and faith formation classes, even RCIA (lots of discussion, little instruction). Just from what I have observed, one of the biggest problems is the lack of formal catechesis for adults in the average parish. It seems like most cradle Catholics think the religious instruction they receive as youngsters teaches them everything they need to know, when all they’ve learned (if they’ve learned anything at all, depending on how good the instruction was they received) are the very basics.
I think many Catholics are just not motivated to learn on their own, which we all have a responsibility to do.

One thing I’m doing in my parish is trying to promote the idea of more faith formation instruction for adults (with a willingness to volunteer to teach) and I’m involved in my parish as a catechist, teaching the junior high youth.
 
I have to say that I recently got The Baltimore Catechism and not only do I love, but I have loaned it to other craddle Cathoics around my age and they love it too. I have had comments like, finally, a clear, concise Catichism! I plan to teach my children from it and I also refer to it in my CCD class.
 
🙂 I had a friend who was soo terrified of one nun that she messed her pants instead of asking to go to the bathroom (2nd grade). You are right there needs to be a balance. And I pray daily that I do deliver the truths about our faith in a way that is receivable for all of us…not just do it! We also have discussions afterwards and they have some pretty tough questions!! Sometimes I have to say, I will have to get back to you on that!! 👍 Anyway, I know what you are referring to but in those cases, it was the teacher, not the book itself!
 
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Veritas41:
I understand completely what you’re saying. I entered the Church eight years ago, and almost all I’ve learned about the Catholic faith has been through my own personal study – very little from homilies and faith formation classes, even RCIA (lots of discussion, little instruction). Just from what I have observed, one of the biggest problems is the lack of formal catechesis for adults in the average parish. It seems like most cradle Catholics think the religious instruction they receive as youngsters teaches them everything they need to know, when all they’ve learned (if they’ve learned anything at all, depending on how good the instruction was they received) are the very basics.
I think many Catholics are just not motivated to learn on their own, which we all have a responsibility to do.
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Apparently, my RCIA instructor is the exception. He is so focused on teaching the Teachings of the Church to the point that he doesn’t watch his audience for questions. We only have two hours a week and he’s trying to cram as much as he can into those two hours. I’ve been know to say “Lucas, we have a question”. Then, he stops his lecture for the question.

For craddle Catholics and converts, confirmation seems to be the end of religious education with too many people. It is something that has to be sought out in this religion. In some respects that may not be a bad thing. The most devout will be the seekers and find their way to God’s side in the shortest amount of time after death.

Also, my parish has two fantastic priests. Their homilies are awe inspiring. I could listen to them all day. This morning, I was having to listen to each and every word very closely because everything the priest said was so packed full of meaning.
 
Greetings, to all, I read often but do not post often. I am a cradle catholic and attended 8 years of parochial school taught by the Dominican Sisters and lay teachers. I attended public high school followed by 5 years at a Jesuit college. The sisters were strict - no doubt about that. I too experienced some of the issues discussed in this Forum ( I made the floor wet too in first grade, we were kept after school as punishment). But my experiences in parochial school provided me the benefit of a top notch education mixed in with a high level of theological principles in action. The nuns were teachers that cared and I have not experienced any level of caring really to match thus far (Out in the world). When my mother died, they were at the funeral home - they were part of the parish family.
 
GGB,

I didn’t mean to put nuns down. I guess I meant that there were times when they may have been too strict.

There’s no doubt that they are the best teachers, etc. My mother was a pharmacist and worked in Catholic hospitals. The pharmacists she worked with were nuns. She loved them. When she was in one of the Catholic hospitals she worked at 20 years earlier, one of the nuns came to visit her. The nun had no way of knowing my mother was in the hospital other than seeing her name in some paperwork. They ran wonderful hospitals. I’m very proud that I was born at St. Joseph’s hopital in Fort Worth (50 years ago and lots of nuns).

The shortage of nuns is a big part of the reason most people cannot afford Catholic educations for their children and the quality of Catholic education has declined.

The Religious Education Director at my parish is home schooling his four children because he cannot affort to send them to the parish school.
 
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LeahInancsi:
Also, my parish has two fantastic priests. Their homilies are awe inspiring. I could listen to them all day. This morning, I was having to listen to each and every word very closely because everything the priest said was so packed full of meaning.
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Can my parish borrow your priests? 🙂
 
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Veritas41:
Can my parish borrow your priests? 🙂
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No way in the world, but you are very welcome to my parish.

I just sent my Pastor an e-mail thanking him for our parish. He has had a hard job over the past ten years. My parish was started around 1950 by the Franciscans and Father James Reilly. Fr. Reilly built the parish spiritually and brick and mortor with every fiber of his soul. After his retirement, the parish went through many priests because the parishioners would accept no other way than Father Reilly’s. Ten years later, Father James Gigliotti came to town and announced that he wasn’t leaving. He’s still here and I pray that he will be here till the day God takes him or he retires, whichever comes first.

The parish has started a capital campaign drive. Only $3.5 to 4 million. The first contribution (not pledge, but money in the bank) was from an anonymous parishoner who contributed $500,000 for a pipe organ. In three months into this drive, we are only short less than $500k in pledges. Three months! Does it get any better than that?

BTW, our Assoc. Pastor is very bit as good. Fr. Gigliotti just come to us first.

:bowdown2: :bowdown2: :bowdown2:
 
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oldfogey:
I got a ton of insight into the problem we have with catechesis from a book titled “A Generation Betrayed” by Eamonn Keane.
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I know Eamonn, he’s an amazing speaker who can capture an audience so that they wish he could keep going when his time is up.

I learned to memorise the Catechism as a child but whenever I asked a question about something or WHY the Church taught something, I was brushed off. I realise now that the nuns we had then were probably not well trained in theology, just how to teach the 3 RRRs.

I left the Church because of this for a few years, but eventually went looking for the answers myself and came back. That started in me a hunger and thirst for knowledge about what the Church teaches that has lasted 30 years.

I was listening to Fr Corapi talking (as I am now) from the ewtn audio files and he said we all need to study up on what the Church teaches and be able to speak about each subject for at least 10 minutes. He also said we need to memorise things to help us to do this.
 
Eileen, what you said is my observation as well. I’m a convert, so I didn’t grow up learning the Catholic faith, but from the Catholics I’ve met and in my experience as a catechist, I see the emphasis still seems to be on learning *what *without learning *why. *That’s why I have adapted my faith formation lessons to my junior high kids to explain the *why *behind the *what *so hopefully they won’t grow up believing what the Church teaches isn’t true or relevant. I wonder if there are any religious ed curricula that explain the faith in this way?
 
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