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Nancy47
Guest
Gary, you don’t believe anything unless the Vatican approves of it. Yet hundreds of children were molested under their noses, in the confessionary of all places…
Because no one said anything…
- Status
Because no one said anything…
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Nancy47
Guest
If anyone questions my family story, my tree is posted on the Internet at
worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=debord-walshtree&id=I1592
I have spent 10 years working on it.
Also my last name is Walsh who are from Philadelphia, and everyone knows the Walshes are very involved with the establishment of Catholics in America.
the Walshes worked with Royalty in England helped King Charles escape, and had strong holdings in Ireland, risked their lives.
I am not criticizing the Catholics in anyway but bringing to light the struggles to right the wrongs in the world.
I love my Walsh family who are also descendants of the Charles Carroll family, who also is a signer on the Declaration of Independece.
My family has struggled to make America into a country under God.
I will continue to tell what I know and, what I have seen; I don’t make up stories.
Thank you, Nancy Walsh
G
garysibio
Guest
Since the Bible says that the Church is the foundation and pillar of the truth (1 Tim 3:15), I prefer looking to it for the truth than wherever it is you are getting your nonsense from. (Sorry to be so blunt but you chose to lecture me first.)
Those priests and the people who enabled them will be dealt with by Jesus although I wish they also faced some jail time while on Earth. What they did was inexcusable. However, child molestation is twice as prevalent among Protestant ministers and four times as prevalent among the population at large. Statistically, Catholic priests are guilty of this crime much less than any other group. These numbers come from a study done by a Lutheran group.
I know one Ecangelical pastor who has been accused of this sort of things by two underaged girls and one adult woman. Nothing could be done since it was always he said/she said. That was 25 years ago so thete may be even more charges by now since he is still a minister. When a Catholic priest is involved, it’s always on the front page.
Gary
H
Hisalone
Guest
We have strayed from the OP.
I have never seen prophesy or speaking in toungues at a Catholic Mass yet is was commonplace in the early church.
Proof that the Catholic Church is not like the early Church.
I have never seen prophesy or speaking in toungues at a Catholic Mass yet is was commonplace in the early church.
Proof that the Catholic Church is not like the early Church.
G
garysibio
Guest
Have you ever considered that just because you have never seen it does not mean that others might have? I’ve been at plenty of Masses where the gifts of tongues, prophecy and healing were exercised.
I don’t know what church you go to but, whatever it is, unless it is Roman Catholic it can’t trace its history back any further than the 16th century. Your church was also founded by a man, while the Catholic Church was founded by Jesus Christ, true God and true man. Also, unless you attend one of the Orthodox churches, you do not have the Eucharist which means, according to John 6:53, that you have no life in you.
I don’t care which church you attend, if it is not the Catholic Church you are depriving yourself of the fullness of God’s revealed truth.
Gary
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Nancy47
Guest
Group says ad carries message from her
By Beth Menge
The Cincinnati Enquirer
The Tristate is becoming a “Cornerstone of Faith” that will draw spiritual pilgrims, according to a self-proclaimed visionary,
The visionary, who prefers to remain anonymous, says Mary the mother of Jesus, regularly appears in the area, and a local foundation spent $1,000 to run an ad in today’s Enquirer with what it calls a message from Mary.
“From these seven hills, I am calling out to all who can hear my words to come here for their Spiritual nourishment,” said the ad, placed by Our Lady of Light Foundation in Norwood. The ad appears on Page A4 today.
The text says Mary has appeared in Ohio and Indiana and has chosen to appear in a field near Falmouth, KY on the 8th of every month “to coincide with the Eighth of December,’ the feast of My Immaculate Conception.”
The Our Lady of Light Foundation said the message was received by the same Batavia, OH woman who predicted that Mary would appear in Cold Spring, KY on Aug 31 1992 drawing thousands to St Joseph Church.
“I think the message is significant,” said Gerald Ross, president of Our Lady of Light Foundation, which supports a ministry which focuses on Jesus and messages from Mary.
“I could publish it in the Catholic newspapers, but that doesn’t get the message to all of the people. And she’s the blessed mother of everyone, not just Catholics.”
Ross thinks the message means people will make spiritual pilgrimages to Greater Cincinnati.
Although Covington, KY Bishop William Hughes said nothing miraculous occurred at St Joseph Church in 1992, many people who gathered there reported apparitions, and hundreds of people continue to gather there on the 31st of every month.
According to the Batavia woman’s message, the annual walking of the Way of the Cross on Good Friday on the steps of Immaculata Church on Mount Adams, OH will grow steadily. And many things of a spiritual nature will happen at St Joseph in Cold Spring.
In recent years, greater numbers of alleged apparitions have been reported, said the Rev Thomas Thompson, director of the Marian Library at the University of Dayton. But in the past 200 years, only a dozen or so worldwide have been verified by bishops as being supernatural.
“Certainly, Catholicism is very favorable to revelations, to apparitions, to supernatural miraculous occurrences,” Thompson said. “At the same time, though, be critical. Do not accept every report of an apparition as being authentic.”
Under Catholic doctrine, reports of visions are investigated by the local bishop, who then rules whether the event was authentic.
By Beth Menge
The Cincinnati Enquirer
The Tristate is becoming a “Cornerstone of Faith” that will draw spiritual pilgrims, according to a self-proclaimed visionary,
The visionary, who prefers to remain anonymous, says Mary the mother of Jesus, regularly appears in the area, and a local foundation spent $1,000 to run an ad in today’s Enquirer with what it calls a message from Mary.
“From these seven hills, I am calling out to all who can hear my words to come here for their Spiritual nourishment,” said the ad, placed by Our Lady of Light Foundation in Norwood. The ad appears on Page A4 today.
The text says Mary has appeared in Ohio and Indiana and has chosen to appear in a field near Falmouth, KY on the 8th of every month “to coincide with the Eighth of December,’ the feast of My Immaculate Conception.”
The Our Lady of Light Foundation said the message was received by the same Batavia, OH woman who predicted that Mary would appear in Cold Spring, KY on Aug 31 1992 drawing thousands to St Joseph Church.
“I think the message is significant,” said Gerald Ross, president of Our Lady of Light Foundation, which supports a ministry which focuses on Jesus and messages from Mary.
“I could publish it in the Catholic newspapers, but that doesn’t get the message to all of the people. And she’s the blessed mother of everyone, not just Catholics.”
Ross thinks the message means people will make spiritual pilgrimages to Greater Cincinnati.
Although Covington, KY Bishop William Hughes said nothing miraculous occurred at St Joseph Church in 1992, many people who gathered there reported apparitions, and hundreds of people continue to gather there on the 31st of every month.
According to the Batavia woman’s message, the annual walking of the Way of the Cross on Good Friday on the steps of Immaculata Church on Mount Adams, OH will grow steadily. And many things of a spiritual nature will happen at St Joseph in Cold Spring.
In recent years, greater numbers of alleged apparitions have been reported, said the Rev Thomas Thompson, director of the Marian Library at the University of Dayton. But in the past 200 years, only a dozen or so worldwide have been verified by bishops as being supernatural.
“Certainly, Catholicism is very favorable to revelations, to apparitions, to supernatural miraculous occurrences,” Thompson said. “At the same time, though, be critical. Do not accept every report of an apparition as being authentic.”
Under Catholic doctrine, reports of visions are investigated by the local bishop, who then rules whether the event was authentic.
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Nancy47
Guest
Los Angeles Times, Feb 16, 1997)California Album: Waiting For Mary
Hundreds gather in the Mojave Desert on the 13th of each month to watch for
the mother of Jesus. Almost as eagerly awaited is Maria Paula Acuna, who
says she sees the Virgin with regularity.
By CARLA HALL
and PAULA BRYANT PRATT
SPECIAL TO THE TIMES
CALIFORNIA CITY, Calif.-They come with lawn chairs, rosaries and religious
pictures to this stark, scrubby desert. Polaroid is the camera of
choice–the better to see immediately if the Virgin Mary has appeared in
the sky and allowed herself to be captured in some earthly form, if only on
film.
Under a sunny, cloudless sky, they are bundled against the chill of the
desert wind as they pray in a circle near two huge white crosses. They hope
to see Mary, but at the moment they are eagerly awaiting Maria Paula Acuna,
a 45-year-old Catholic woman from California City who comes on the 13th of
each month to this site–now christened Our Lady of the Rock–and declares
that Mary is in their midst.
Whether it’s rainy or sunny, a throng gathers. On weekends, it can number
1,000 or more. On Thursday, the crowd is 300 strong, and two vendors are
selling rosaries, religious-themed jewelry and an Automatic Miracle Fold
self-opening umbrella.
The faithful are veterans of this Mojave Desert trek and neophytes,
predominantly Catholic and mostly Latino. They tote stacks of snapshots
taken of the sky over the course of their visits and compare them like
collectors at a baseball card show.
Some are part of the Marian movement–devotees of Mary–who travel to sites
around the world renowned for visitations by Mary. But most are Southern
Californians who simply believe that something–something blessed–happens
under this desert sky on the 13th df each month.
“See, it’s the Virgin,” says Lissette Sandoval, 41, cradling a snapshot she
took just before Acuna’s arrival. She points to a vaguely diamond-shaped
smudge of white light.
Maybe you could construe it to be the shape of a veiled and robed Mary in
her traditional pose with outstretched arms. Suggestions that photographing
the sun will result in odd shapes and blips of light carry as much weight
here as any earthly apparition of Mary does.
Only Acuna claims to see the mother of Jesus with regularity and incredible
clarity.
“The Blessed Mary always appears around 10, 10:30, 11, something like
that,” Acuna had explained over the phone Wednesday, the day before the
13th. “She looks like a big ray of light coming from the sky very slowly
and then she appears in front of me. She looks like a cloud. I see her very
clearly. She’s a very beautiful woman, very young… Maybe 18 years old.
About 5’5”.
Local Catholic authorities have officially-if gently-suggested that there
is no Mary there.
“The church’s official position is that there are no apparitions, and
people are to be discouraged from going there,” said Father Gregory Coiro
of the Roman Catholic’ archdiocese of Los Angeles, which spent more than a
year investigating the desert case. “It was looked into and found to be
wanting. It was found to be due to somebody’s imagination-not anyone’s bad
will.”
The diocese in Fresno, which has immediate authority over California City,
has concurred with Los Angeles officials. But it has placed no restrictions
on people gathering at the unpaved site about 10 miles northeast of
California City.
Not that the devotees care about such pronouncements. They have their own
research. They talk of the time when rose petals fell from the sky as Acuna
prayed-- and then mystically rose back into the sky. They remember when a
rainbow appeared around the sun.
Maria Morales, 34, brings her 3-year-old daughter outfitted in a little
blue cape and white gown like a miniature statue of Mary. Morales says that
Acuna’s prayers healed her daughter’s dislocated hip.
On this Thursday morning, Evelyn Velasquez, 23, waits for Acuna to arrive.
“There will be a moment when she says,‘Take the picture,’ and everyone will
go crazy with their cameras,” she says. “But if you don’t believe it, you
won’t see it.”
Acuna says she doesn’t know why she started coming to the desert on the
13th of each month, but suggests that there is some history of Mary
appearing on that day.
Softly she says in Spanish, “Our Mother is with us,” and suddenly the air
is filled with the whir of polaroid cameras snapping directly at the sun.
Those without cameras look toward the sky, hands draped in rosaries
shielding eyes from the bright sun. All that is visible to the naked eye is
a trail of vapor from jets flying out of nearby Edwards Air Force Base.
“The light of the Blessed Mother looks like a crown and covers all the
people here,” she says in English before launching into something of a
sermon–a lament for the homeless that leaves her and some of her listeners
in tears.
After the prayers have been said and photos snapped, Acuna works the crowd,
listening to people’s problems, laying her hands on their heads as she
prays, laughing and smiling with those who bring her good news. She is
trailed by a volunteer in white who carries a bottle of holy water and a
tin of holy oil for Acuna’s use.
Seven years ago, Acuna says, she had her first vision when she went to pray
in Lopez Canyon near her home in Pacoima. She went back repeatedly,
bringing with her bigger and bigger crowds of people until the owners of
the property complained.
“That was private property in Lopez Canyon,” says one of her aides who
declined to give his full name. “The Blessed Mother told her the desert is
wide, so she came here.”
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Nancy47
Guest
History of the Early Christian Church
Eusebius, History Section 1, Chapter 7
From this passage we see that the Jesus Bloodline or Desposyni asserted themselves as being relevant to the early Christian Church. The sacking of Jerusalem by the Romans in 70 ce caused the ‘James Church’ to loose influence and St Paul’s version of Christianity began to take hold owing to his constant travels spreading the Gospel. Jame’s Church returned to Jerusalem in 72 ce and had branches throughout the Middle East.
After the death of James the Brother [or cousin] of Jesus the next historical mention of the Jesus Bloodline comes with the Church historian Hegesippus who wrote circa 165 ce. In a surviving fragment of his History entitled Concerning the relatives of our saviour Hegesippus explains how the Jesus Bloodline emerged as the leaders of the early Christian Church:
…There still survived of the kindred of the Lord the grandsons of Jude, who according to the flesh was called His brother. These were informed against, as belonging to the family of David, and Evocatus brought them before Domitian Caesar: for that emperor dreaded the advent of Christ, as Herod had done.
…So he asked them whether they were of the family of David; and they confessed they were.
Jerusalem became the headquarters of the Desposyni rule of the early Church. The Mother Church of Christianity was then in Jerusalem not Rome. The Jerusalem Christian Bishops were all drawn from the blood relations of Jesus and originally controlled all of the Eastern dioceses and property. They claimed spiritual and sometimes even temporal authority by blood. These Jesus Bloodline leaders contended, and it was commonly believed, that their very physical blood was uniquely sacred by being the same as that of the Savior. Their Davidic/Jesus bloodline is the basis on which they controlled much of Eastern Christianity and had final authority in all theological disputes that occurred in the Western Roman Churches.
Eusebius, History Section 1, Chapter 7
From this passage we see that the Jesus Bloodline or Desposyni asserted themselves as being relevant to the early Christian Church. The sacking of Jerusalem by the Romans in 70 ce caused the ‘James Church’ to loose influence and St Paul’s version of Christianity began to take hold owing to his constant travels spreading the Gospel. Jame’s Church returned to Jerusalem in 72 ce and had branches throughout the Middle East.
After the death of James the Brother [or cousin] of Jesus the next historical mention of the Jesus Bloodline comes with the Church historian Hegesippus who wrote circa 165 ce. In a surviving fragment of his History entitled Concerning the relatives of our saviour Hegesippus explains how the Jesus Bloodline emerged as the leaders of the early Christian Church:
…There still survived of the kindred of the Lord the grandsons of Jude, who according to the flesh was called His brother. These were informed against, as belonging to the family of David, and Evocatus brought them before Domitian Caesar: for that emperor dreaded the advent of Christ, as Herod had done.
…So he asked them whether they were of the family of David; and they confessed they were.
Jerusalem became the headquarters of the Desposyni rule of the early Church. The Mother Church of Christianity was then in Jerusalem not Rome. The Jerusalem Christian Bishops were all drawn from the blood relations of Jesus and originally controlled all of the Eastern dioceses and property. They claimed spiritual and sometimes even temporal authority by blood. These Jesus Bloodline leaders contended, and it was commonly believed, that their very physical blood was uniquely sacred by being the same as that of the Savior. Their Davidic/Jesus bloodline is the basis on which they controlled much of Eastern Christianity and had final authority in all theological disputes that occurred in the Western Roman Churches.
N
Nancy47
Guest
…A meeting between Sylvester and the Jewish Christian leaders took place in 318…The vital interview was not, as far as we know, recorded, but the issues were very well known, and it is probable the Joses, the oldest of the Christian Jews , spoke on behalf of the desposyni and the rest.
…That most hallowed name, desposyni, had been respected by all believers in the first century and a half of Christian history. The word literally meant, in Greek, “belonging to the Lord.” It was reserved uniquely for Jesus’ blood relatives. Every part of the ancient Jewish Christian church had always been governed by a desposynos, and each of them carried one of the names traditional in Jesus’ family—Zachary, Joseph, John, James, Joses, Simeon, Matthias, and so on. But no one was ever called Jesus. Neither Sylvester nor any of the thirty-two popes before him, nor those succeeding him, ever emphasized that there were at least three well-known and authentic lines of legitimate blood descent from Jesus’ own family…
…The Desposyni demanded that Sylvester, who now had Roman patronage, revoke his confirmation of the authority of the Greek Christian bishops at Jerusalem, in Antioch, in Ephesus, and in Alexandria, and to name desposynos bishops to take their place. They asked that the practice of sending cash to Jerusalem as the mother church be resumed… These blood relatives of Christ demanded the reintroduction of the Law, which included the Sabbath and the Holy Day system of Feasts and New Moons of the Bible. Sylvester dismissed their claims and said that, from now on, the mother church was in Rome and he insisted they accept the Greek bishops to lead them.
…That most hallowed name, desposyni, had been respected by all believers in the first century and a half of Christian history. The word literally meant, in Greek, “belonging to the Lord.” It was reserved uniquely for Jesus’ blood relatives. Every part of the ancient Jewish Christian church had always been governed by a desposynos, and each of them carried one of the names traditional in Jesus’ family—Zachary, Joseph, John, James, Joses, Simeon, Matthias, and so on. But no one was ever called Jesus. Neither Sylvester nor any of the thirty-two popes before him, nor those succeeding him, ever emphasized that there were at least three well-known and authentic lines of legitimate blood descent from Jesus’ own family…
…The Desposyni demanded that Sylvester, who now had Roman patronage, revoke his confirmation of the authority of the Greek Christian bishops at Jerusalem, in Antioch, in Ephesus, and in Alexandria, and to name desposynos bishops to take their place. They asked that the practice of sending cash to Jerusalem as the mother church be resumed… These blood relatives of Christ demanded the reintroduction of the Law, which included the Sabbath and the Holy Day system of Feasts and New Moons of the Bible. Sylvester dismissed their claims and said that, from now on, the mother church was in Rome and he insisted they accept the Greek bishops to lead them.
G
garysibio
Guest
That anonymity thing makes me nervous. The prophets in the Bible didn’t hide their identities. If we don’t know who they are, how can we determine if they are trustworthy?
Gary
G
garysibio
Guest
Nowhere does Jesus tell us to chase after apparitions. Some people here seem to think that apparitions are more important than Jesus. They’ll probably deny it but all they ever talk about is apparitions.
Gary
Gary
L
Lee44
Guest
I speak in tounges ok here goes
olly olly oxen free
Interpretation: gobiltiguk
olly olly oxen free
Interpretation: gobiltiguk
M
Mary_ann_R
Guest
:newidea:
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NiceGuyPose
Guest
Ok, I see all kinds of opinions and thats well and good, but I need Church authority to even come close to accepting the Charismatic movement. I was rather repulsed by it at their so called prayer meeting… who calls worship that??? I agree that there is a renewal, but gibberish is hardly edifying. I am planning on going to seminary, but I don’t want to boast. Love, is all we need as far as I’m concerned. I’m good with the Sacrifice of the Mass!!! Some good Latin chanting and the whole bit… I guess maybe my problems come from my Lutheran background. I guess I’ve never ran into pentacostalism or charismatic Catholics until I after I came home to Minnesota.
I just want to hear some Church authority, because individual interpretation has only ever been destructive. I know one must be careful of Charisms as they must discern the spirit from which they come. Sorry, a rough quote from the Catechism. As far as I’m concerned charism such as tongues are rare and even a nuisance as Mother angelica spoke in such tongues, but didn’t want the gift. Theresa of Avila had many gifts, but she spent much time discerning where these gifts came from. I don’t think seeking such things is a good way to find authentic charism, because many people could be deceiving themselves or be deceived by others. I guess the psychology of groups from school has some influence on my thought.
Any links to stuff from the Vatican:shrug: ??
I just want to hear some Church authority, because individual interpretation has only ever been destructive. I know one must be careful of Charisms as they must discern the spirit from which they come. Sorry, a rough quote from the Catechism. As far as I’m concerned charism such as tongues are rare and even a nuisance as Mother angelica spoke in such tongues, but didn’t want the gift. Theresa of Avila had many gifts, but she spent much time discerning where these gifts came from. I don’t think seeking such things is a good way to find authentic charism, because many people could be deceiving themselves or be deceived by others. I guess the psychology of groups from school has some influence on my thought.
Any links to stuff from the Vatican:shrug: ??
R
Reuben_J
Guest
Try this iccrs.org/what.htm
G
garysibio
Guest
zenit.org/article-10226?l=english
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Charismatic_Renewal
Scroll down to ‘Reaction from the Church hierarchy’
nsc-chariscenter.org/aboutccr.htm
ewtn.com/expert/answers/charismatic_renewal.htm
If you want more, just google: pope catholic charismatic movement
Gary
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Nancy47
Guest
homeofourladyoflight.org
According to the local visionary she was told by Holy Mother to remain annonymous because it would be a large money maker. The Holy Mother stated her true messages would be lost. It is true when it is a money maker it is like being a movie star someone takes charge and changes everything, for money sake…A visionary could be someones possession…That is what happened when the Medjujorge children came to America many years ago as a doctors guest he tried to take control of them in California, as their agent. They are careful where they go.
The visonary is abiding by the Holy Mothers wish…which is the way it is supposed to be…If people would really read her messages, Holy Mother emphasizes on her son Jesus and the Father…Holy Mother does not emphasize on her self she is very humble…about her position. Holy Mother bows to Jesus and the Father; and only appears with their permission.
There is a lot to everyone’s story but, you have to spend years studying them
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Nancy47
Guest
Message from the Holy Mother:
May 1, 1994 - Request at Falmouth KY
My Child,
I have called you here to further explain my desires for this field which I have claimed. As I have already spoken, many shall find peace here. Healing of body and of soul shall be granted here vy the Father through my intercession. Know that I shall reach out to all who seek me here and I shall point them all to Jesus and His mercy.
As the faithful come, I ask that before they honor me they go first to Jesus at the foot of the Cross where they will also find me, His Mother. I am always there.
I also request that three crosses be erected here t remind all that Jesus died for mankind and that the Perfect Soul was placed between two imperfect souls, the two thieves. This will also serve to remind them of Jesus’ mercy for in His darkest hour He gave redemption to the one thief because he had asked for His mercy. A lesson for all.
May 1, 1994 - Request at Falmouth KY
My Child,
I have called you here to further explain my desires for this field which I have claimed. As I have already spoken, many shall find peace here. Healing of body and of soul shall be granted here vy the Father through my intercession. Know that I shall reach out to all who seek me here and I shall point them all to Jesus and His mercy.
As the faithful come, I ask that before they honor me they go first to Jesus at the foot of the Cross where they will also find me, His Mother. I am always there.
I also request that three crosses be erected here t remind all that Jesus died for mankind and that the Perfect Soul was placed between two imperfect souls, the two thieves. This will also serve to remind them of Jesus’ mercy for in His darkest hour He gave redemption to the one thief because he had asked for His mercy. A lesson for all.
N
Nancy47
Guest
Article about the events in KY
Cold Spring Mary Sightings Not an Isolated Event
Tri-state TV stations and newspapers widely reported the predicted appearance of the Virgin Mary, venerated by Christians as the mother of Jesus, at St. Joseph Roman Catholic Church in Cold Spring, Kentucky, on August 31. A sizable crowd, although not the hordes predicted, gathered at the site under the watchful eye of the local police and the Kentucky National Guard. Participants prayed, sang, and compared notes on rosary beads which allegedly turned gold, sightings of the sun ‘spinning,’ and other paranormal events.
This event, with its attendant possibilities for excess spending by the Cold Spring authorities and the Kentucky National Guard and excess profit-making by Cold Spring citizens, is neither isolated nor unique, but part of a pattern of increasing incidence of Mary sightings, according to Ari L, Goldman (“When Mary Is Sighted, a Blessing Has Its Burdens,” New York Times, September 6, 1992, p. A1). Goldman reports that church authorities say that such incidents have “increased sharply across the country in recent months.” Gabriel Meyer, editor of Mary’s People, a monthly magazine, Goldman reports, estimates that there are about 150 investigations of such alleged visitations underway worldwide. Explanations include the example set by the visions alleged to have occurred in Medjugorie, in former Yugoslavia, where 17 million people have visited over the last 10 years, seeking physical and spiritual healing in visions of Mary, and the approach of the millennium in the year 2000, widely expected by religious scholars to produce many such incidents. Periods of great social and political change, particularly when accompanied by poor economic times, are also thought to provoke such sightings.
The news media, however, rarely mention such secular explanations, usually accepting by implication the paranormal explanations offered by those who see the apparitions. Church authorities prefer to downplay such incidents because they threaten to replace the authority of the church with the voices of visionaries. Like the news media, they are also reluctant to bring reason to bear on the problem. One cause for their reluctance is the immense popularity of Mary among the faithful, who are likely to accuse anyone who appears to doubt the visions of being anti- Mary. The burden of providing alternative hypotheses rests squarely on local skeptics.
Sources a skeptic may want to consult to prepare for the next time Mary sightings are predicted include Dr. Sandra Zimdars-Swartz’s history of such sightings over two centuries, Encountering Mary, published by Princeton University Press. Any standard introductory psychology textbook can provide information on perception and how the human mind may be misled. And keep in mind Oran Dent’s notion that perception is a hypothesis about reality, and thus be quite wrong.
Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. --I Thessalonians, 5.21
Cold Spring Mary Sightings Not an Isolated Event
Tri-state TV stations and newspapers widely reported the predicted appearance of the Virgin Mary, venerated by Christians as the mother of Jesus, at St. Joseph Roman Catholic Church in Cold Spring, Kentucky, on August 31. A sizable crowd, although not the hordes predicted, gathered at the site under the watchful eye of the local police and the Kentucky National Guard. Participants prayed, sang, and compared notes on rosary beads which allegedly turned gold, sightings of the sun ‘spinning,’ and other paranormal events.
This event, with its attendant possibilities for excess spending by the Cold Spring authorities and the Kentucky National Guard and excess profit-making by Cold Spring citizens, is neither isolated nor unique, but part of a pattern of increasing incidence of Mary sightings, according to Ari L, Goldman (“When Mary Is Sighted, a Blessing Has Its Burdens,” New York Times, September 6, 1992, p. A1). Goldman reports that church authorities say that such incidents have “increased sharply across the country in recent months.” Gabriel Meyer, editor of Mary’s People, a monthly magazine, Goldman reports, estimates that there are about 150 investigations of such alleged visitations underway worldwide. Explanations include the example set by the visions alleged to have occurred in Medjugorie, in former Yugoslavia, where 17 million people have visited over the last 10 years, seeking physical and spiritual healing in visions of Mary, and the approach of the millennium in the year 2000, widely expected by religious scholars to produce many such incidents. Periods of great social and political change, particularly when accompanied by poor economic times, are also thought to provoke such sightings.
The news media, however, rarely mention such secular explanations, usually accepting by implication the paranormal explanations offered by those who see the apparitions. Church authorities prefer to downplay such incidents because they threaten to replace the authority of the church with the voices of visionaries. Like the news media, they are also reluctant to bring reason to bear on the problem. One cause for their reluctance is the immense popularity of Mary among the faithful, who are likely to accuse anyone who appears to doubt the visions of being anti- Mary. The burden of providing alternative hypotheses rests squarely on local skeptics.
Sources a skeptic may want to consult to prepare for the next time Mary sightings are predicted include Dr. Sandra Zimdars-Swartz’s history of such sightings over two centuries, Encountering Mary, published by Princeton University Press. Any standard introductory psychology textbook can provide information on perception and how the human mind may be misled. And keep in mind Oran Dent’s notion that perception is a hypothesis about reality, and thus be quite wrong.
Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. --I Thessalonians, 5.21
N
Nancy47
Guest
20,000 gather to see apparition 1999
Pilgrims gathered Tuesday hoping to glimpse an appearance of the Virgin Mary.
Almost 20,000 Catholic pilgrims gathered Tuesday night hoping to see what some believe may be the last apparition of the Virgin Mary in Norwood. The Aug. 31 pilgrimage to Our Lady of the Holy Spirit Center, has become an annual event since believers saw the first apparition in 1992 at St. Joseph Church in Cold Spring, Ky. The apparition moved to the Norwood site, formerly Mount St. Mary’s Seminary of the West on Moeller Avenue, in 1996. Pilgrims say the Virgin Mary’s appearance is always accompanied by a dramatic light display. Cincinnati author Mark Garvey, in his 1998 book ‘‘Searching for Mary’’ (Plume, $12.95), hints that may actually be the result of thousands of flashbulbs going off at midnight. The apparition was first heralded in 1992 by a Batavia woman, who has told the Rev. Leroy Smith, director of the Norwood center, that she received a message from the Virgin Mary suggesting this will be her last appearance in Norwood.
Pilgrims gathered Tuesday hoping to glimpse an appearance of the Virgin Mary.
Almost 20,000 Catholic pilgrims gathered Tuesday night hoping to see what some believe may be the last apparition of the Virgin Mary in Norwood. The Aug. 31 pilgrimage to Our Lady of the Holy Spirit Center, has become an annual event since believers saw the first apparition in 1992 at St. Joseph Church in Cold Spring, Ky. The apparition moved to the Norwood site, formerly Mount St. Mary’s Seminary of the West on Moeller Avenue, in 1996. Pilgrims say the Virgin Mary’s appearance is always accompanied by a dramatic light display. Cincinnati author Mark Garvey, in his 1998 book ‘‘Searching for Mary’’ (Plume, $12.95), hints that may actually be the result of thousands of flashbulbs going off at midnight. The apparition was first heralded in 1992 by a Batavia woman, who has told the Rev. Leroy Smith, director of the Norwood center, that she received a message from the Virgin Mary suggesting this will be her last appearance in Norwood.
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