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I can make no judgement on who loves God. Only God sees the soul. The Bible says those who love God obey God. Each of us can look in our consciences and see whether or not we are obedient. If we are sinful, we can conclude we do not love God. Speaking in tongues will not fix this. Repentance and conffession will, God’s grace.
I disagree again here if you say that speaking in tongue is sinful. Is that what you mean since your sentence of speaking in tongue comes right after those who does not love God?
I have seen Catholics leave the Church after being involved in the charismatic movement. I have seen charismatics get divorced. When sins become visible we can say that a certain person needs grace and has departed from it. This is a statement about individuals, not lumping every person who attends these meetings into one group or another.
Interesting. From what you saw, were they all or the majority of Catholic Charismatics that get divorced or leaving the church? What roughly the percentage of those who in that category?
OK. So it about individuals.
I see diferently though. I have seen thousand upon thousand lasped Catholics, Sunday Christian Catholics who turn their lives around after being renewed in the Holy Spirit.
Personally I have witnessed to hundred of broken familes amd marraiges being restored by the work of those people in the Renewal who serve the Lord in this ministry. I have seen a few physical healings too, those that can be authentated beside many more testimonies that were not.
I have seen millions of youth step up in faith to live lives of righteousness for God after hearing the proclamation of the words. Many of these move on to really become serious Christians. I have friends inthe Renewal who move on to become priests and nuns. And what a blessing when they come to say private mass in my home among many friends.
I have seen many non-Christians converted to Catholicism because of the faith they obtain when we come into contact with them through conferences, seminars and talks or through personal evangelization.
I have seen personally Muslims who convert to Catholicism in a country I do not wish to mention here due to safety reason, who would leave their head scarfs at the door, listen to Word of God being proclaimed or going to the mass, and after that go back to their families as outward Muslims because they cannot profess their faith openly due to perscution by the Islamic authority.
Yes, there are individuals who left the church, became disoriented and so on, but the number is nothing compared to the multitudes who return to God. I say here, if I may, there are always people who will leave the church one way or the others and certainly they are NOT only Charismatics Catholics.
But I cannot deny that God works in His Church through the power of the Holy Spirit, and for that I have to speak it out and give glory to God. I may be a very unpopular voice here but I have to testify these things out. And please, I am not talking about Protestantism.
Catholic Charismativ Renewal is recognized by the Church as one of its movements in diversity. I mention the late Cardinal Suenen who was put in charge on the work of the Holy Spirit. Bishop Codez is responsible for the laity in the Renewal. Even tha papal preacher, Fr. Cantalamessa does adovate Charismatic gifts. John XXIII believed that the 20th century is the century of the second Pentecost. Paul VI and JP2 after him continued in this direction. And I have no doubt that Benedict 16 would do too though it is too early to see his active achievement in this.
This is absurd. There are thousands of Proteatant denominations. They all disagree on something or other and all claim they believe the Bible as their rule of faith and they have it right and the others are wrong. The Bible has to be read with the mind of the Church. So if I do not agree with another Christian or you on what the Bible means that proves I don’t take the Bible seriously. Absurd.
As I said this does not concern me. I was exasperated when you keep associating me with Protestantism.
The Bible should be understood together with the magestrium and common Catholic understanding. You can give me example if I said otherwise and we can discuss that.
It is not a reference. It is the means by which we know truth through divine revelation, scripture and tradition.
Why it is not a reference when we can get our knowledge of God from it?
Please refer to CCC 107, 112, 113 and 114 on what the church says.
I am not normally harsh in discussion but I think I have tried to save this discussion by summarizing our stands. It is easier to move on when we know each other’s stand on issue like this.
Reuben
