Prophesey and speaking in tounges

[garysibio]

Here is another good Marian Apparition group in Emmitsburg, Maryland

These apparitions have been rejected by the archbishop and the CDF. I have included information on this.

Gary

The following is a copy of the decree issued on June 7, 2003, the Feast of the Vigil of Pentecost, in the case of Gianna Sullivan, by William Cardinal Keeler, Archbishop of Baltimore.

Office of the Cardinal

Decree

   Having received reports of alleged locutions and visions said to have taken place in St. Joseph Church, Emmitsburg, Maryland, in the archdiocese of Baltimore;

   and having studied these reports most attentively through the work of a commission of recognized experts in theology, cannon law, and the behavioral sciences;

   and having shared with the Holy See the report of the Commission and received from the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, the appropriate authorization;

   I hereby declare that in this case, constat de non supernaturalitate. Accordingly, there is to be no public activity in the churches, oratories and other properties of the Archdiocese of Baltimore relating to the alleged apparitions and locutions.

William Cardinal Keeler
Archbishop of Baltimore

The following is a copy of the letter from the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith, sent to Cardinal Keeler,
Archbishop of Baltimore, February 15, 2003.

Your Eminence,

   Thank you for you letter of 23 August, 2002, with the results of the investigation conducted by the relevant diocesan commission on the allegedly "supernatural" apparitions and messages received by Mrs. Gianna Tallone- Sullivan at Emmitsburg, Maryland, in your Archdiocese. You asked this Congregation to offer our judgment on the issue.

   After a careful examination of the contents of the report and having taken into consideration all the aspects of the present case, this Congregation commends the work done by the commission and considers that Your Eminence is in a position to conclude the matter with a decree of "constat de non supernaturalitate" in reference to the phenomena in question.

   I take this opportunity to offer Your Eminence my sincere respects and every best wish, I remain

Yours devotedly in the Lord,
Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger.

 

[Nancy47]

These apparitions have been rejected by the archbishop and the CDF. I have included information on this.

Gary

The following is a copy of the decree issued on June 7, 2003, the Feast of the Vigil of Pentecost, in the case of Gianna Sullivan, by William Cardinal Keeler, Archbishop of Baltimore.

Office of the Cardinal

Decree

   Having received reports of alleged locutions and visions said to have taken place in St. Joseph Church, Emmitsburg, Maryland, in the archdiocese of Baltimore;

   and having studied these reports most attentively through the work of a commission of recognized experts in theology, cannon law, and the behavioral sciences;

   and having shared with the Holy See the report of the Commission and received from the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, the appropriate authorization;

   I hereby declare that in this case, constat de non supernaturalitate. Accordingly, there is to be no public activity in the churches, oratories and other properties of the Archdiocese of Baltimore relating to the alleged apparitions and locutions.

William Cardinal Keeler
Archbishop of Baltimore

The following is a copy of the letter from the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith, sent to Cardinal Keeler,
Archbishop of Baltimore, February 15, 2003.

Your Eminence,

   Thank you for you letter of 23 August, 2002, with the results of the investigation conducted by the relevant diocesan commission on the allegedly "supernatural" apparitions and messages received by Mrs. Gianna Tallone- Sullivan at Emmitsburg, Maryland, in your Archdiocese. You asked this Congregation to offer our judgment on the issue.

   After a careful examination of the contents of the report and having taken into consideration all the aspects of the present case, this Congregation commends the work done by the commission and considers that Your Eminence is in a position to conclude the matter with a decree of "constat de non supernaturalitate" in reference to the phenomena in question.

   I take this opportunity to offer Your Eminence my sincere respects and every best wish, I remain

Yours devotedly in the Lord,
Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger.

This is not stopping the gatherings of at least a thousand, with Priests and Nuns present…
Here are the Videos…

tfsih.com/Video/Video.aspx

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[Nancy47]

Too many supporters Worldwide to stop it…

I also have the responses of Mother Mary on this problem…In my collection of material…I am sure you would not want to read it.

 

[Reuben_J]

I discern that there is a lot of false prophesy …

If it is false prophecy, then it is false prophecy. I would be interested if you can give examples.

Like in I said, the situation in a prayer meeting is quite a straight forward thing. Usually prophecy, if there is any, would be proclaimed after a deep praise and worship, where the focus is on Jesus. Basically it is praying with freedom. It is just a form of prayer. It is in this situation that God may want to inspire the participants concerned mainly for the purpose of edification.

Someone may feel supernatural prompting to say, for example, “My children, I have always loved you”. It may be from God or it may be from the human mind but this type of prophecy is not from the evil one since it is Biblical.

But the Bible says when two or three of you gathered in my name I will be in your midst, and the Psalm says I will inhibit the praise of my people. And if we gather will the sole purpose for Jesus, we can be quite sure God honours his word.

Prophecy like that may be for the edification of someone there. For example someone who have a bad spell in life and is asking why me or where is God. Affirmation like that would help him/her to refocus her faith on the love of God. This is certainly in line with God’s purpose as we know of. If it is prophecy that someone would be moved to believe that God love here. If it’s not prophecy, despite being Biblical, it would have no affect on the person as intended and if happen regularly in the prayer meeting it could dilute it spirituality.

Thus the process of discernment can be for a period of time. Is the life of the prophet in order, is the worship focused on God, is there changing/transforming of lives among the participants? Leaders should be always in prayers corporately and individually and seek the mind of God. In most situations when the hearts are sincere, God would honour them and reveals himself.

There is also directive prophecy which is very rare and there is way to deal with it.

… among other bad things going on in the charismatic subculture of Catholicism.

This looks like a judgment. We can say there are bad things going on in the seminaries, in parish councillors, in this and that movement. And that may well be true. But then again these are parts of the Church. What’s important in principle all these are for good purpose and therefore should focus on what the purpose is.

The claims that religious meetings are full of prophets in every city and town are bogus.

We know that God may put people who are after His heart in any place for the sake of his Church and His people. Whether they are bogus or not only God knows, but if it is obvious, we can see it too. Like I said, look for the fruit of their work. But what can be so bad if there are people who are so intense and so enthusiastic in their love for God?

The claim that these are valid as long as someone is there with the gift of disernment is bogus, on the grounds that no one ever stands up in that role and calls foul.

If the exercised of prophecy is proclaimed after in consultation with a few prayerful elders for discernment then we would avoid many problems. The most could happen, like I said, is that the prophecy may be from a human mind. But then again why don’t we trust in God to be with us and want to speak to us when we sincerely come before him?

Discernment enables the person to sort out the many prompting and impulses of each day so that his will is better able to be united to God’s will. As a person begins “to walk in the Spirit”, God shows him that many of his impulses and activities come from a selfish nature and must brought into line with the divine plan. On the other hand, discernment also helps the person not to go overboard spiritually, but to maintain the needed balance so that singularity or practices far beyond the person’s strength are avoided.

You say this prophesying is Biblical and all fine as long as there is someone there to discern it, but if there were they would be confronting those who claim they are prophesying and are not. There is no one there doing that. So your safeguard simply is not operating. It does not exist, making it all improper.

I would say if prophecy does not go through the process of discernment then the practice is wrong. But since the gift of prophecy is mentioned in the Bible, I believe there are people who are given this gift.

You agreed that “most” of this is not prophesy at all. If that is true then it should be labelled false by your discerners or they are not doing their jobs or they have no such gift.

Again, the above. Before a person steps out to proclaim a prophecy he/she must consult a team of leaders first and only go ahead if they agree. Thus there must be proper understanding on how to operate the gift and the necessary procedure must be in place in a prayer meeting, otherwise no prophecy should be proclaimed.

 

[Reuben_J]

2 of 2

This is all the product of people seeking excitement.

This may be true for some people. It is a product of bad childhood experience and of not receiving enough parental love. The result – always crave for attention. We encounter people like this all the time. But only the Lord can heal this kind of behaviour caused by deep inner hurt. Personally I only have compassion for such people. There is always a reason for people’s behaviour and very often the root cause is something very sad, very unfortunate experience.

Did Padre Pio organize prayer meetings full of prophets and tongues and passing out cold on the floor? Is that what happened at Pentacost with the apostles?

There were things happening to Padre Pio that he himself did not expect then.

There is no standard manifestation of the Holy Spirit as far as I know. Sometimes the unexpected happened and sometimes we do things that look foolish. The phenomenon of slain in the Spirit does happen. I am not against it. If someone falls while experiencing deeply the action of the Holy Spirit, then that’s his business. Whether it is genuine or not, I don’t know it’s a bother to anybody.

King David took off his crown and his cloth and he danced naked except for a linen loin cloth in praising God in full view of his shocked subjects. He was condemned by his wife for making a fool of himself but he replied that he honoured the Lord in doing what he did and if necessary he would disgrace himself. The wife became barren after saying that (2 Sam 6).

They spoke in tongues, languages not their own that were in languages non-believers spoke. I know ex-Catholics who claim to have this gift and jabber like monkeys and no one understands them and they hate the Catholic Church and despise anything to do with Mary.

Not all of them. In fact the minority. Some of them left the Church, those who would leave anyway. And this is not limited to Charismatics only.

The genuine Charismatics are the one who experience profound repentance which result in them loving the Church more – Eucharist, Mary, Bible and the Pope. More important the transformation from sinners and useless Catholics to better husbands, wives, parents and brothers and sisters. I have seen many such people discard former bad habits and instead being transformed to someone Christ-like. Because, how could the Holy Spirit results in something that’s bad?

They refuse to pray for the dead, do not recognise the intercession of the saints, deny the Eucharist and what led them out of the Church is all this nonsense.

The ones I know would do exactly the opposite. Personal prayer lives become more intense and daily mass have become very common.

They are people, only people. I have not heard any Church’s teaching or Jesus’ that encourage us to generalize or to judge. Catholics who considered themselves Charismatic do constitute some percentage of its population of some 1 billion people. It is not reasonable to cover them with a single blanket.

Instead they claim they have the gift of holy laughter and laugh like hyenas uncontrolably.

Not all believe in the so-called holy laughter. So the “they” are not all of them.

You say look at the fruits.

Yes, the fruits that appears in their lives and their work of evangelization.

That is what I see. They all got started in this, because they were seeking signs and wonders and spiritual fireworks. Charismatics can’t sit still. They are like excited little puppies with spiritual ADHD, who run around the room playing with a ball, sniffing a plant, jumping in your lap, barking at shadows, howling at the moon, and chewing the furniture.

This is plenty of judgment. We cannot see their hearts and are we any better?

They need to mellow out, calm down, mature and grow up.

I am not qualified to give such remark because I have to work on my own weakness first.

This is my discernment. I could be wrong. Don’t you think your supposed discerners might also be wrong?

Unfortunately we ALL could be wrong but it does not mean we cannot step out and give the Holy Spirit a try. We believe God wants to save his people and it is not unreasonable he bless us with it.

“… As bad as you are, you know how to give good things to your children. How much more, then, will the Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!” Lk11:13

Reuben

 

[Nancy47]

2 of 2

There were things happening to Padre Pio that he himself did not expect then.

There is no standard manifestation of the Holy Spirit as far as I know. Sometimes the unexpected happened and sometimes we do things that look foolish. The phenomenon of slain in the Spirit does happen. I am not against it. If someone falls while experiencing deeply the action of the Holy Spirit, then that’s his business. Whether it is genuine or not, I don’t know it’s a bother to anybody.

King David took off his crown and his cloth and he danced naked except for a linen loin cloth in praising God in full view of his shocked subjects. He was condemned by his wife for making a fool of himself but he replied that he honoured the Lord in doing what he did and if necessary he would disgrace himself. The wife became barren after saying that (2 Sam 6).

Not all of them. In fact the minority. Some of them left the Church, those who would leave anyway. And this is not limited to Charismatics only.

The genuine Charismatics are the one who experience profound repentance which result in them loving the Church more – Eucharist, Mary, Bible and the Pope. More important the transformation from sinners and useless Catholics to better husbands, wives, parents and brothers and sisters. I have seen many such people discard former bad habits and instead being transformed to someone Christ-like. Because, how could the Holy Spirit results in something that’s bad?

The ones I know would do exactly the opposite. Personal prayer lives become more intense and daily mass have become very common.

They are people, only people. I have not heard any Church’s teaching or Jesus’ that encourage us to generalize or to judge. Catholics who considered themselves Charismatic do constitute some percentage of its population of some 1 billion people. It is not reasonable to cover them with a single blanket.

Not all believe in the so-called holy laughter. So the “they” are not all of them.

Yes, the fruits that appears in their lives and their work of evangelization.

This is plenty of judgment. We cannot see their hearts and are we any better?

I am not qualified to give such remark because I have to work on my own weakness first.

Unfortunately we ALL could be wrong but it does not mean we cannot step out and give the Holy Spirit a try. We believe God wants to save his people and it is not unreasonable he bless us with it.

“… As bad as you are, you know how to give good things to your children. How much more, then, will the Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!” Lk11:13

Reuben

I love your attitude towards the receiving …I have seen so much (not necesaarily myself but, others) and it is True…You want to share what was received…but, many don’t want to hear about it, and it turns off the sharing…so, it turns off the Spirit and the Receiving

I hear a lot about the experiences of others; the best we can do is welcome their experience and listen to it…This helps them through the experience…

 

[Reuben_J]

I love your attitude towards the receiving …I have seen so much (not necesaarily myself but, others) and it is True…You want to share what was received…but, many don’t want to hear about it, and it turns off the sharing…so, it turns off the Spirit and the Receiving

I hear a lot about the experiences of others; the best we can do is welcome their experience and listen to it…This helps them through the experience…

Thanks dear. I may not be very liberal, you know as Catholic, but I try to believe if they are to be found and can be explained Biblically. Charismatic gifts are some of those and I would approach them cautiously but sensibly.

Ultimately it’s all about love. If we have the gift and it enhances our capacity to love, I find there is no reason to reject it.

BTW, are you referring to others lives experience or their recieving of the gifts experience?

God bless.

 

[Nancy47]

I am referring to their receiving of Gifts, Tongues and Visions…We have a small store and people wil just start telling me their experiences, I worked in a Garden Center and they would just start telling me about their experiences.

I believe God gave me the gift to listen and share.There must be a reason people just open up to me about their private matters.

Listening is a Gift. I read a book called “The Listener” by Taylor Caldwell, someone built a building with a curtain down the middle, with just a chair; and people came from miles around to sit in the chair and tell their stories to the curtain…At the end of the story someone moved the curtain and there was Jesus hanging on the wall.

 

[Reuben_J]

I am referring to their receiving of Gifts, Tongues and Visions…We have a small store and people wil just start telling me their experiences, I worked in a Garden Center and they would just start telling me about their experiences.

I believe God gave me the gift to listen and share.There must be a reason people just open up to me about their private matters.

Listening is a Gift. I read a book called “The Listener” by Taylor Caldwell, someone built a building with a curtain down the middle, with just a chair; and people came from miles around to sit in the chair and tell their stories to the curtain…At the end of the story someone moved the curtain and there was Jesus hanging on the wall.

Oh,I see. I note that you are Protestant and just to remind, there is some potential differences between us in understanding of this issue.

Sure, I agree with you that the ability to listen is a gift too. It can enhance your service, for example as counsellor or giving comfort to people who come to you. Remember that Paul says there are different gifts among different parts of the body. Some gifts are lesser while other may be greater but all have the same purpose - to serve.

Glad to hear that you make use of your speciality for the good of others.

 

[Nancy47]

Oh,I see. I note that you are Protestant and just to remind, there is some potential differences between us in understanding of this issue.

Sure, I agree with you that the ability to listen is a gift too. It can enhance your service, for example as counsellor or giving comfort to people who come to you. Remember that Paul says there are different gifts among different parts of the body. Some gifts are lesser while other may be greater but all have the same purpose - to serve.

Glad to hear that you make use of your speciality for the good of others.

I know this will raise eyebrows but, I am a descendant of Baptist ministers going back to the 1600’s but I always admired the graciousness and humbleness of the Catholic Church, I married Catholic; my family were not partial, they just want us to be good Christians. We were married 1965 when mixed marriages were not accepted but I was devoted to my families faith and my husband was devoted to his…so we kept them both.He was excommunicated but, accepted again in the 70’s.I broke away and went to many faiths, I am now Church of Christ. My children are still looking for themselves. My husband is still Catholic but supports mine also.

It is possible to support both.

We definitely are not biased in anyway. God is everwhere. My family is living proof that all can live together. Some came to America as Quakers in the 1600’s and converted to being Baptist, then Church of Christ during the big Revival in 1820’s in KY. I read many received the Holy Spirit during that time and became Church of Christ(the Indian problem was so overwhelming they united and called God to assist and a peac treaty was signed., my family settled in KY. Then kept dispersing, and very strong with their Faith.

 

[Nancy47]

This decribes the large gathering in Kentucky. It was phenomonal…I always wondered why my family was so strong in their Faith, but, they were not biased because they believed it was not Christian-like. Again I am only sharing…

“In the Appalachian region, the revival used and promoted the camp meeting, and took on characteristics similar to the First Great Awakening of the previous century. The camp meeting was a religious service of several days’ length with multiple preachers. Pilgrims in thinly populated areas looked to the camp meeting as a refuge from the lonely life on the frontier. The sheer exhilaration of participating in a religious revival with hundreds and perhaps thousands of people inspired the dancing, shouting, and singing associated with these events.
One of the early camp meetings took place in July 1800 at Creedance Clearwater Church in southwestern Kentucky. A much larger gathering was held at Cane Ridge, Kentucky, in 1801, attracting perhaps as many as 20,000 people. Numerous Presbyterian, Baptist and Methodist ministers participated in the services. This event helped stamp the revival as a major mode of church expansion for denominations such as the Methodists and Baptists. Cane Ridge was also instrumental in the birth of the churches of the Restoration Movement, particularly the Christian Church, Disciples of Christ, The Independent Christian Churches/Churches of Christ and the Church of Christ.”

 

[garysibio]

This is not stopping the gatherings of at least a thousand, with Priests and Nuns present…
Here are the Videos…

IMO, this is wrong. Catholics should respect the decision of the local bishop especially when it is supported by the CDF. Even if they were wrong and rhese events are supernatural, they are not necessary.

Having said that I have no problem with people going to Medjugorje even though the local bishop rejects it because his findings were essentially rejected by the Vatican.

Gary

 

[Nancy47]

That is how Gianna Sullivan started receiving the visitations by Holy Mother,and Jesus

Gianna went to Medujorge…That is what happened to the visionaries, and Priests in Cincinnati, Utah and Chicago…they went to Medujorge…
Holy Mother requested chapels built, fountains with water, praying center and retreats for gatherings, and pilgrimages…A farm in Cold Water Springs KY(St Joseph Church), China, IN, Dayton OH. 2 centers in Cincinnati…Scotssdale, AZ and Emmitsburg, MD, Ft Lauderdale, FL…plus more… Holy Mother searches for the right host to receive and deliver her messages and to carry out Her request…they are doing it…

.What do they do when she calls on them? Would you deny Her? Would you deny Jesus, or the Father? I have witnessed it… Yet they are being persecuted for doing it…even Mohammed was visited by Gabriel the Angel and Mohammed carried out his wishes…Abraham did…Zacharia was visited…about John the Baptist

I think something is not right here…

 

[Nancy47]

View attachment 2602

Her appearance in Cold Water Springs KY, also there have been visitations by the Medujorje Visionaries, Scottsdale Visionaries to see Her, and many others

This card was created at the Holy Mothers request, and is distributed Worldwide

 

[garysibio]

That is how Gianna Sullivan started receiving the visitations by Holy Mother,and Jesus

Gianna went to Medujorge…That is what happened to the visionaries, and Priests in Cincinnati, Utah and Chicago…they went to Medujorge… <<

Just because their “gift” began in Medjugorje it cannot be assumed that it is from God. Not everyone who claims to be hearing from Mary actually is. Do you accept the false apparitions at Bayside?

Holy Mother requested chapels built, fountains with water, praying center and retreats for gatherings, and pilgrimages…A farm in Cold Water Springs KY(St Joseph Church), China, IN, Dayton OH. 2 centers in Cincinnati…Scotssdale, AZ and Emmitsburg, MD, Ft Lauderdale, FL…plus more… Holy Mother searches for the right host to receive and deliver her messages and to carry out Her request…they are doing it… <<

So what? Mary tells us to do whatever Jesus tells us to do and that includes obedience to the Church. Mary would never tell a visionary to act against the Church and that is what these people are doing by chasing after something the Church has said is not supernatural.

What do they do when she calls on them? Would you deny Her? Would you deny Jesus, or the Father? I have witnessed it… Yet they are being persecuted for doing it…even Mohammed was visited by Gabriel the Angel and Mohammed carried out his wishes…Abraham did…Zacharia was visited…about John the Baptist

I think something is not right here. <<

Something isn’t right. The Church has said that Mary is most definitely not talking to these people here. It is either Satan trying to spread confusion or, more likely, just their own flesh. When we turn our backs on the Church we are turning our backs on Jesus and Mary.

Mohammed was not visited by an angel unless it was a fallen angel. He taught that Jesus was not God; how could that teaching come from God.

Gary

 

[grandfather]

St Augustine lived about a century after Emperor Constantine and by then Christianity was already established. Charismatic gifts were abound (obviously) after the first Pentecost when there was much persecution but by the time of Constantine, Christians began to relax and did not think much about miracles and supernatural.

 

[grandfather]

I have emphasized this in my earlier posts but perhaps they were not noticed. Charismatic gifts are given by God as gifts. No amount of what we do can deserve them.

 

[grandfather]

If it is false prophecy, then it is false prophecy. I would be interested if you can give examples.

 

[Nancy47]

Three ladies were approached by the Holy Mother in a field in Indiana in the 1990’s…The Holy Mother told them she would be visiting them regularly these ladies asked the Holy Mother how they could discern wether it was good or bad…The Holy Mother said to always say “Praise be Jesus, when visited by a spirit to test it.” the Holy Mother stated a spirit of darkness will not “Praise Jesus” the spirit will leave…The Holy Mother also stated that Satan follows her and wherever she goes Satan comes to attack some of the nonbelievers…that is why some see her and hear and some can’t…those that can’t attack…They doubt which gives Satan strength…

The Holy Mother also stated Jesus is always with her,“Where I am He is”

Jesus stated to the same ladies at a later date"Those that do not accept my Mother, I will not accept them."

Those three ladies are visited to this very day…their words are at www.homeofourladyoflight.org…one of them lives 20 miles from my house

 

[Nancy47]

homeofourladyoflight.org/Authority.html

Authority of The Church

Upon the approval of Pope Paul VI, on October 14, 1966, with the abolition of previous Canon 1399 & 2318 of the former Canonical Code, publications about new appearances, revelations, prophecies, miracles, etc., have been allowed to be distributed and read by the faithful without the express permission of the Church, providing they contain nothing which contravenes faith and morals. This means that no Imprimatur is necessary when distributing information on new apparitions not yet judged by the Church. [Congregation For The Propagation Of The Faith, S.A.S. 58 1186.]

The contents of this website have been discerned by the Batavia Visionary’s spiritual advisor and a panel of priests as containing nothing which contravenes faith and morals