Prosecuting those who employ illegal aliens

[PJH_74]

I am Mexican American so do not accuse me of racism…

<—>

The system needs reform, not to reward illegal behavior.

Not a swipe at you, but just because you have roots in something does not make you immune. In this case you are an American national and the others are not; that’s the important distinction.

Now for the immigration situation. We are in a mess as you’ve noted, but part of that is our own mess. We’ve failed to have a realistic immigration strategy for decades and that vacuum has partially been filled by illegal immigrants. The problem has only gotten worse as politics has failed to find any solution. Through many ways we’ve allowed our economy to be dependent on cheap illegal foreign labor.

I feel for your in-laws. My father is a immigrant himself who did it the right way. I’ve worked with many H1-B visa co-workers and watched a few of them struggle to get a green card or even citizenship. One in particular I remember had a house, children, and a wife also fighting the bureaucracy to get both their green cards. In the end they did get them a few months or so before they would have had to leave the country.

However the problem remains, what do you do with 12 million people? Almost 4% of the people living here are here illegally, about one family on every block. They are allowed due process and they have to be accounted for somehow during the process. You need a huge force of officers and the accompanying bureaucracy. You have to make it hard to make a living here. We have to resolve the illegal entry issues. Big walls make for good theater, but most illegal entries actually happen at legal points of entry or people who over stay their visas.

I do not like rewarding illegal activity, but the simple round them up and throw them all out response is not close to realistic. The only way out is to somehow normalize their status here (maybe some restricted income level/occupation/social support visa?) because they are a big part of our economy. The other is to stop playing around and be honest about why our immigration policy and enforcement has been so ineffective.

 

[starlady]

LaughingBoy1503:

I am Mexican American so do not accuse me of racism…

<—>

The system needs reform, not to reward illegal behavior.

Not a swipe at you, but just because you have roots in something does not make you immune. In this case you are an American national and the others are not; that’s the important distinction.

Now for the immigration situation. We are in a mess as you’ve noted, but part of that is our own mess. We’ve failed to have a realistic immigration strategy for decades and that vacuum has partially been filled by illegal immigrants. The problem has only gotten worse as politics has failed to find any solution. Through many ways we’ve allowed our economy to be dependent on cheap illegal foreign labor.

I feel for your in-laws. My father is a immigrant himself who did it the right way. I’ve worked with many H1-B visa co-workers and watched a few of them struggle to get a green card or even citizenship. One in particular I remember had a house, children, and a wife also fighting the bureaucracy to get both their green cards. In the end they did get them a few months or so before they would have had to leave the country.

However the problem remains, what do you do with 12 million people? Almost 4% of the people living here are here illegally, about one family on every block. They are allowed due process and they have to be accounted for somehow during the process. You need a huge force of officers and the accompanying bureaucracy. You have to make it hard to make a living here. We have to resolve the illegal entry issues. Big walls make for good theater, but most illegal entries actually happen at legal points of entry or people who over stay their visas.

I do not like rewarding illegal activity, but the simple round them up and throw them all out response is not close to realistic. The only way out is to somehow normalize their status here (maybe some restricted income level/occupation/social support visa?) because they are a big part of our economy. The other is to stop playing around and be honest about why our immigration policy and enforcement has been so ineffective.

Your last paragraph is the key, really. The key that no one with the power to do anything really wants to handle. Removing that many people from the community would have huge ramifications on the economy and society - many of these undocumented immigrants are working and have families (often mixed status families).

One can say that it would be the fault of employers for hiring them and/or spouses for marrying/having children with them and so they should suffer the consequences that would arise. But I do think that people underestimate the negative impact that would have, and I don’t think it would only affect those people who are directly involved. Merely handing out amnesty is not the answer, but I do wish people were more open to really trying to figure out a real solution, and not just more of “throw them all out/let them all in” type of talk.

 

[Annie]

Posted by mistake

 

[Sarcelle]

One thing that is not addressed is that with illegal immigration, there arose a thriving black market in stolen identities. The primary victims are ordinary American citizens.

I have had my identity stolen. My credit rating was rubbish for a while because of something that was not my fault.

 

[PJH_74]

Merely handing out amnesty is not the answer, but I do wish people were more open to really trying to figure out a real solution, and not just more of “throw them all out/let them all in” type of talk.

If we can’t even support amnesty for the “dreamers”, we’re a long way from any workable compromise. Legalizing people who committed no crime, are very likely fluent in English, fully integrated in to American life, and very likely not at all familiar with the country of their nationality is should not pose a big challenge.

 

[Annie]

There are a lot of issues related to illegal immigration which are not addressed…

 

[Theo520]

“The more prosperous nations are obliged, to the extent they are able, to welcome the foreigner in search of the security and the means of livelihood which he cannot find in his country of origin.” (CCC 2241)

Right, I’m all for expanding our legal refugee immigrants, after we contain illegal immigration.

The number of illegal immigrants take far more resources than we are able to provide, we’ve exceeded “to the extend they are able”. Our limited resources need to be directed towards our homeless citizens and our poor.

 

[Annie]

I could support a program of amnesty… after we have secured the borders and straightened out the problem with visa overstayers so that we don’t simply repeat the cycle. It is absurd to “reward” those who acted illegally without at least putting into place a system whereby we will not have the same problem all over again.

However, the argument that people are fluent in English, integrated into American life, and unfamiliar with the nation of which they are citizens does not fly with me. There are thousands of people who are fluent in other languages, integrated into their nation’s life, and unfamiliar with the US who are nevertheless trying to get into the US.

Not to mention the fact that a young person who is fluent in English and educated in the US would probably be able to do extremely well in the nation from which their parents brought them.

 

[JoeShlabotnik]

Illegal immigration and many other issues are very complex.
For example, some people try to make things seem simple, like, “Just deport the millions who are here illegally!” Imagine the cost of doing this? Not an easy fix.

 

[PJH_74]

It is absurd to “reward” those who acted illegally

You can’t, by definition, reward dreamers for committing a crime when they haven. The rest was just to point out that they represent little burden to our society. Also if we’ve spent good money to educate them…I have no interest in the fruits of my tax dollars being exported to the benefit of another country.

 

[Annie]

I mentioned that I would support an amnesty program?

 

[JoeShlabotnik]

If only our politicians had the smarts that so many posters on this forum have.
Without a discussion of all the ramifications, there is no policy when it comes to immigration.
At least, we here are trying to look at the many problems in an effort to come up with some tough answers.

 

[Annie]

You can reward their parents, who are the ones who committed the crime.

My argument with people who say “dreamers” (if they didn’t commit the crime, why are they called dreamers?) should be allowed to stay is when they use the argument I replied to, for the reasons I already stated.

I have no problem with their being allowed to stay, but on a fairly individual basis, and not because of the absurd arguments that they are unfamiliar with the nation they are citizens of, etc.

 

[Theo520]

Illegal immigration and many other issues are very complex.
For example, some people try to make things seem simple, like, “Just deport the millions who are here illegally!” Imagine the cost of doing this? Not an easy fix.

A crack down would result in self deportation by most. Mitt was right on that one as well.

 

[13pollitos]

It has. Often. In many communities across the south at least. In the last two years alone, seven families (entire families) we have known for several years (I’m talking well over 20 each) have decided to return to Mexico or Guatemala due to increased immigration raids. If we go back 10 years, I personally know more than 50 people who have left before they were picked up. If we add in people on immigration holds (in the courts waiting for deportation or not), there are another 20 or so. Self deportation happens quite often

 

[LaughingBoy1503]

behavior.

Keep in mind that based on the facts that I have roots from Mexico and that I have brown skin means Mexicans from Mexico tell me a lot of stuff that white Americans do not regularly hear. And I can tell you that the majority of Mexican immigrants do not want to be american. They want to keep their ways and in many examples they complain about having to be here when they really want to be back home.

I never said round them all up and throw them out. You assumed wrong about me there. I don’t care if someone is here illegally and they never get caught. They can work and keep to themselves. But if they get caught… Don’t blame the government that it’s unfair. Stop blaming the government for choices people make. Sure, let the dreamers stay but that’s why I said the system needs reform. It’s a bad idea to give 12 million people the instant right to vote and meddle in our countries politics when frankly the majority will not even be loyal to this country.

Yes, it’s a mess. But I don’t think giving amnesty to 12 million is the answer. Would love to discuss more but I’m at work on break

 

[13pollitos]

Keep in mind I also that the fact I have roots from Mexico I have brown skin Mexicans from Mexico tell me a lot of stuff that white Americans do not regularly hear. And I can tell you that the majority of Mexican immigrants do not want to be american. They want to keep their ways and in many examples they complain about having to be here when they really want to be back home.

Very much my experience as well. I’m bolivian and married to a Mexican. We are both immigrants. I came legally as a child, he hopped the border and later got his status rectified. People are more comfortable being open about their thoughts and feelings with people who share common stories

 

[PJH_74]

Keep in mind I also that the fact I have roots from Mexico I have brown skin Mexicans from Mexico tell me a lot of stuff that white Americans do not regularly hear

I’m sorry, I might have gone at you too hard. I’m so used to hearing white people ignore race or class inequality based on things like “I don’t see colors” or rolling out examples that are exceptions to the rule to support their views. The reality is that some of this is done TO Hispanics.

As for the solution, there is no saying that illegal immigrants should be quickly given citizenship. However the situation needs to be normalized in some way, maybe a longer path to citizenship or reduced ability to work for some time or whatever. There’s no need to point fingers, we all have had something, large or small, to contribute. Normalization and rationalizing how we address our reality going forward.

 

[Theo520]

And I can tell you that the majority of Mexican immigrants do not want to be american. They want to keep their ways and in many examples they complain about having to be here when they really want to be back home.

That is why they are remitting their earnings. I don’t blame them as lots of Americans also want to retire there due to the low cost of living.

 

[13pollitos]

This is partial true. But one of the reasons we send money home is that it is the only way we have to care or contribute to the care of our loved ones. It isn’t possible to be there for the everyday needs. The only thing we can do is help them to have the food, medicines and Housing they need