Protecting your H.S., College children from scientific gibberish

[CatholicGeek1]

Not necessary, I have given you the means to do your own research. Parents with children know what I’m talking about. Cheers. Linus2nd

I have two children and no idea what you are talking about.

 

[CatholicGeek1]

Well, you just can’t stop some people from " drinking the cool aid. " I just happen to recall the great thinker, writer, intellectual, conversationalist, and loyal Catholic, William F. Buckley and his ground breaking book " God and Man at Yale. " This is an early alert to everyone, including parents, of liberal indoctrination taking place at Yale and per force at all institutions, Catholic and Secular.

Wikipidia says the following: God and Man at Yale:

The Superstitions of “Academic Freedom” is a book published in 1951 by William F. Buckley, Jr., who eventually became a leading voice in the American conservative movement in the latter half of the twentieth century.

Buckley wrote the book based on his undergraduate experiences at Yale University. In the book, he criticized Yale and its faculty for forcing liberal ideology on its students. He criticized individual professors by name for their trying to break down students’ religious beliefs through their teaching. Buckley also states in the book that Yale was denying its students any sense of individualism by making them embrace the ideas of liberalism. Buckley argues that the Yale charter leaves oversight of the university to the alumni, and argues that because most alumni of Yale believed in God, that Yale was failing to serve its “masters” by teaching course content in a matter consistent with alumni beliefs.

And of course the same things are going on today, but with unabashed boldness. So, wise parents will take steps to counter the dictatorship of Relativism sweeping our institutes of learning. And of course it includes indoctrination into pseudo science but is not limited to that. The undermining of the faith begins as early as the lower grades of grade school with " sex " education and progresses step by bolder step into the highest reaches of academia. Linus2nd

If these types of indoctrination is happening, I do not think that we should “protect” children from them. Especially HS and college age “children”. All that would do is give us sheltered children that do not understand the world. Instead, teach your children what you believe, and then teach them to debate and to think critically. Not only will these skills allow them to not be “indoctrinated”, it will set them up to be successful in other life situations that I find far more common than fighting off supposed scientific indoctrination.

 

[CatholicGeek1]

This right here is exactly why so many youth today lose faith. They are taught by their parents from a young age to question global warming and evolution and such. It is drilled into their heads that there is no evidence for it. Or that the evidence disproves it. And then they go off to college and they take a biology course or something similar, feeling well informed due to their loving parents that taught them the “truth”, and they discover rather quickly that there is astronomical amounts of evidence - quite the opposite of none. (I got more than enough evidence in my very first day of college classes) And then they have to conclude that their parents lied to them or that their parents didn’t know, and it forces them to question what ELSE their parents lied about, and very suddenly, they’re questioning their very belief in God.

A kid taught science and faith in conjunction, and how they work together, from a young age, has no such internal conflict to deal with and is never put in a position where they are forced to question their own faith.

IMO, this is one of the best posts I have seen on this thread!

 

[Farsight001]

What you are talking about here is filtration and censorship of evidence by parents.

What the Magis Center is talking about is filtration and censorship of evidence by the school systems.

The concern here is the perception that science is going the way of journalism, where scientists & journalists are delivering only the science & journalism that they & their benefactors deem to explore & print.

It’s not the scientists skewing things. That’s 100% journalists. There’s a great comic that I can’t post here for profanity, but I can clean it up and it is very apt.
Frame 1: A scientist is telling a reporter that they have managed to find a medicine that kills 10% of cancer cells and that it is very promising.
Frame 2: A newspaper with the headline “scientists cure cancer!”
Frame 3: The scientist is clarifying to the reporter “we didn’t cure cancer, but it will happen in the future”.
Frame 4: A newspaper with the headline “scientists invent time travel!”
Frame 5: The scientist angrily saying to the reporter “screw you!”
Frame 6: A newspaper with the headline “scientist rapes reporter”

The point is that as much as we know the media exaggerates and misrepresents the Catholic Church they do it just as bad to scientists. Don’t blame the scientists. Just as you might encourage a person to read the pope’s encyclical instead of taking the media’s interpretation of it at face value, read the scientists’ journal articles instead of taking the media’s interpretation of it at face value.

 

[edwest2]

Actually, no it wasn’t an emotional attack. That is just a way to dismiss an argument. Accuse the person of being emotional, and you have won. the fact is that science has proven that it isn’t a lie through the technological advances that have occurred over the last 300 years.

You are lowering the potential of your children. Teaching your kids to be stupid and reject science isn’t going help their faith. In the end they will reject your faith because it doesn’t accord with reality. Gregor Mendel had no problem with science and faith, why should any other religious person?

Lowering the potential, teaching to be stupid, reject science? Reality? Your definition?

They will reject your faith.

I disagree.

“To close the door means that Christian parents must be involved in the education of their children. The parents must either begin home schooling or they must send their children to trusted private schools or they must spend hours every night at home with their children teaching the truth and correcting the lies that were planted in the children’s minds during the day in public schools.”

Read your children’s science textbooks.

Peace,
Ed

 

[CatholicGeek1]

Lowering the potential, teaching to be stupid, reject science? Reality? Your definition?

They will reject your faith.

I disagree.

“To close the door means that Christian parents must be involved in the education of their children. The parents must either begin home schooling or they must send their children to trusted private schools or they must spend hours every night at home with their children teaching the truth and correcting the lies that were planted in the children’s minds during the day in public schools.”

Read your children’s science textbooks.

Peace,
Ed

Can you give an example of something that is in a science textbook that you disagree with?

 

[jimmy]

Lowering the potential, teaching to be stupid, reject science? Reality? Your definition?

They will reject your faith.

I disagree.

“To close the door means that Christian parents must be involved in the education of their children. The parents must either begin home schooling or they must send their children to trusted private schools or they must spend hours every night at home with their children teaching the truth and correcting the lies that were planted in the children’s minds during the day in public schools.”

Read your children’s science textbooks.

Peace,
Ed

I majored in biology at a major university, so I am aware of what the science textbooks are like. I’ve read chemistry, physics, molecular biology, evolutionary biology textbooks.

 

[edwest2]

To my fellow Catholics, I recommend reading the first review for this book, which is now on my must buy list.

amazon.com/gp/product/B000SFIHGQ/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=1595555544&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1Q5YC4BRA3TT47AV74D2

Peace,
Ed

 

[seakelp]

Thanks for the response!

If you spend time on the Magis Center web site, you will have to conclude that much of it deals with “the existence of God”. The contention that there is “scientific gibberish” is based on the claim that science curriculum ignores scientific evidence that supports the existence of God.

The philosophical or theological conclusions one might draw from truths about nature revealed through science hardly belong in a classroom.

Discussions of atheism & evolution will necessarily be invited if explored in depth when the purpose of the thread is not to invite discussion at that level. The purpose is to say “What’s a mother to do when their kids aren’t getting the whole story?”.

She can, at her own election, talk to her kids at home. No one thinks this is a bad idea.

That is, how to augment their education for the education systems deficiencies. It would be no different than asking how do parents educate their children in the faith if their kids have to go to public school. It would not be a thread about “Is faith education necessary to augment public education?”. It’s not about changing the public school system to meet our requirements? (At least, that’s how I understand the thread’s purpose. Correct me if I’m wrong, Linus.)

I won’t try to discern some posters’ thoughts, because they haven’t been as responsive to questions as some of us hope they would be. But, from what I have taken from this thread, most people seem to believe that there is some conspiracy among science teachers to use their classroom time to turn kids into atheists.

But each time we ask someone for some statistics or evidence, we get replies to “look it up for yourself,” &c. Why? I suspect because there is no data supporting any such conclusion.

Should science teachers teach kids about God and philosophy? No. No more than a theologian should be teaching kids about mitosis or anatomy. But are they actually doing it? Statistically, there are likely a handful. But some posters seem to think there is some large-scale conspiracy going on, and I am 99% sure that there just isn’t.

 

[wynnejj]

IMO, this is one of the best posts I have seen on this thread!

I found the evidence to support the idea that young adults leave the faith due to parents warning their children to be wary of global warming and evolution theories to be “astronomical” in an inversely proportional kind of way.

 

[Linusthe2nd]

Nothing on this board is “necessary,” but I was asking you to elaborate on your comments. It’s kind of hard to have a real discussion when the only accusations you’ve made are vague and seemingly baseless.

I think I have made my case plain enough, I have given you plenty of sources. It is not my intent to " prove " anything to persistent skeptics.

My only intent was to raise the alarm for parents who want their children to be prepared to defend their faith and the truth in whatever hostile, threatening circumstance they may encounter, in the classroom, in the dorm, at the club, etc.

I am aware that Catholics come in as many shades these days as may be found in non-Catholic religions. I am directing my gaze toward faithful Catholic parents. Naturally, I expected opposition. But to say the problem isn’t there is to display ignorance of the facts. Linus2d

 

[Linusthe2nd]

If you spend time on the Magis Center web site, you will have to conclude that much of it deals with “the existence of God”. The contention that there is “scientific gibberish” is based on the claim that science curriculum ignores scientific evidence that supports the existence of God. Discussions of atheism & evolution will necessarily be invited if explored in depth when the purpose of the thread is not to invite discussion at that level. The purpose is to say “What’s a mother to do when their kids aren’t getting the whole story?”. That is, how to augment their education for the education systems deficiencies. It would be no different than asking how do parents educate their children in the faith if their kids have to go to public school. It would not be a thread about “Is faith education necessary to augment public education?”. It’s not about changing the public school system to meet our requirements? (At least, that’s how I understand the thread’s purpose. Correct me if I’m wrong, Linus.)

You did very well. That was my specific target, since I am well aware that the pseudo science of " The New Atheism " is " the topic " on college and university campuses. And certainly many of these ideas do find their way into text books and into the classroom cirriculum. But I actually had in mind the " off the cuff " comments and " lectures " of some instructors, and various campus activities where these things come up.

But now I see that one needs to be aware of the larger problem of the prevailing dogma of Secular Relativism on campuses, See " God and Man at Yale " by William F. Buckley and " Worshiping the State " by Dr. Benjimin Wiker, mentioned above.

And besides the information I have given, we should note that Blessed John Paul ll, Pope Emeritis Benedict XVl, and Pope Francis have also given similar warnings about the state of Secular Culture and this is certainly reflected in the classroom and in other places on campuses. Linus2nd

 

[CatholicGeek1]

Thanks for the response!

The philosophical or theological conclusions one might draw from truths about nature revealed through science hardly belong in a classroom.

She can, at her own election, talk to her kids at home. No one thinks this is a bad idea.

I won’t try to discern some posters’ thoughts, because they haven’t been as responsive to questions as some of us hope they would be. But, from what I have taken from this thread, most people seem to believe that there is some conspiracy among science teachers to use their classroom time to turn kids into atheists.

But each time we ask someone for some statistics or evidence, we get replies to “look it up for yourself,” &c. Why? I suspect because there is no data supporting any such conclusion.

Should science teachers teach kids about God and philosophy? No. No more than a theologian should be teaching kids about mitosis or anatomy. But are they actually doing it? Statistically, there are likely a handful. But some posters seem to think there is some large-scale conspiracy going on, and I am 99% sure that there just isn’t.

I agree. I simply do not see a wholesale conspiracy here. Just as the Bible does not teach science and is not a science book, a science book is not a religious text and should not attempt to teach religion. They are separate fields attempting to answer separate questions.

 

[CatholicGeek1]

I think I have made my case plain enough, I have given you plenty of sources. It is not my intent to " prove " anything to persistent skeptics.

My only intent was to raise the alarm for parents who want their children to be prepared to defend their faith and the truth in whatever hostile, threatening circumstance they may encounter, in the classroom, in the dorm, at the club, etc.

I am aware that Catholics come in as many shades these days as may be found in non-Catholic religions. I am directing my gaze toward faithful Catholic parents. Naturally, I expected opposition. But to say the problem isn’t there is to display ignorance of the facts. Linus2d

But what we are asking is, what is the basis for raising this alarm? Where is the data to support the need for this alarm? That is what people are asking for and it is not being provided.

 

[CatholicGeek1]

You did very well. That was my specific target, since I am well aware that the pseudo science of " The New Atheism " is " the topic " on college and university campuses. And certainly many of these ideas do find their way into text books and into the classroom cirriculum. But I actually had in mind the " off the cuff " comments and " lectures " of some instructors, and various campus activities where these things come up.

But now I see that one needs to be aware of the larger problem of the prevailing dogma of Secular Relativism on campuses, See " God and Man at Yale " by William F. Buckley and " Worshiping the State " by Dr. Benjimin Wiker, mentioned above.

And besides the information I have given, we should note that Blessed John Paul ll, Pope Emeritis Benedict XVl, and Pope Francis have also given similar warnings about the state of Secular Culture and this is certainly reflected in the classroom and in other places on campuses. Linus2nd

But Blessed John Paul the Great did not label science as gibberish, and in fact was very supportive of science.

There are atheists in every walk of life. They are not limited to science or classrooms, and some of those will attempt to push their agenda. That is just the way it is. Prepare your children to think critically and debate rationally and they will be able to handle those people. Do not fail to expose them to things for the sake of “protecting” them.

 

[jimmy]

Regarding the statement that this thread is supposed to be about ‘junk’ science rather than all science. The op didn’t indicate a distinction, but for the sake of the argument we can assume it. What is junk science and how is a parent to determine junk science? Are you talking about specific fields of study within science like evolution and global warming? How do you determine what is junk when you don’t know the field, and have never really studied it? The fact is that most people wouldn’t understand a word of a scientific study. They don’t know the techniques that are used in an experiment, they don’t understand the statistical analysis, and they really don’t know what the scientific method is. Who tells you some science is junk, and other science isn’t?

 

[CatholicGeek1]

Regarding the statement that this thread is supposed to be about ‘junk’ science rather than all science. The op didn’t indicate a distinction, but for the sake of the argument we can assume it. What is junk science and how is a parent to determine junk science? Are you talking about specific fields of study within science like evolution and global warming? How do you determine what is junk when you don’t know the field, and have never really studied it? The fact is that most people wouldn’t understand a word of a scientific study. They don’t know the techniques that are used in an experiment, they don’t understand the statistical analysis, and they really don’t know what the scientific method is. Who tells you some science is junk, and other science isn’t?

This is why I do not feel most parents should be teaching there children these subjects. They should leave it to those that truly understand it.

As I have said before and will say again, as a parent, please teach your child to think critically. That way when someone does step outside the bounds of what they should be teaching and move into their agenda (if they do) your child will be able to see that and respond to or disregard the suspect information appropriately.

 

[Linusthe2nd]

If these types of indoctrination is happening, I do not think that we should “protect” children from them. Especially HS and college age “children”. All that would do is give us sheltered children that do not understand the world. Instead, teach your children what you believe, and then teach them to debate and to think critically. Not only will these skills allow them to not be “indoctrinated”, it will set them up to be successful in other life situations that I find far more common than fighting off supposed scientific indoctrination.

I don’t think most parents would agree with you. Linus2md

 

[CatholicGeek1]

I don’t think most parents would agree with you. Linus2md

That is your opinion and you are entitled to it, but it is hardly authoritative.

 

[Linusthe2nd]

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy
I am so glad you started this thread, because science has never accomplished anything…except the invention of computers, phones, tv’s, cameras, the Internet (on which we can go on catholic answers), the internal combustion engine, cars, airplanes, space travel, the electric light, the radio, internal heating and air, refrigiration, vaccines for polio, small pox, measles, and other diseases, steroids and other drugs, anesthesia, artificial hearts, artificial limbs, pacemakers, robotics, planes that don’t need a pilot to fly, siri for your iPhone, electric guitars, pianos, and amps, microwaves, sewage, nuclear power, solar power, wind energy…

But the point is that science has done nothing. It is false, and we need to shelter ourselves and our kids from its LIES.

Yes, that is quite humorous. The problem is no one denies the value or the successes of science. You seem to debating a straw man. Neither I nor anyone else here has even hinted at such an idea. Sorry you seem to have missed the point altogether. Linus2nd