Protecting your H.S., College children from scientific gibberish

[seakelp]

No, that is not what I meant at all. I have in mind more the " off the cuff " comments by instructors where they attempt to foist their personal opinions onto innocent " skulls full of mush. " That amounts to a form of child abuse, even if the child may be 18, 19, they are intellectually and perhaps theologically innocent. Linus2nd

Can you elaborate?

 

[wynnejj]

Dear Nephew,

You mom told me that you are preparing for the sacrament of Confirmation, and that she has asked some folks, including myself, to write a witness letter as food for thought in your preparation.

So here’s my attempt …

Preparing for the Sacrament of Confirmation is a good time to reflect on the axioms of your beliefs. An axiom is a self-evident universal truth for which no proof is necessary. It is a starting point from which all derived knowledge is founded. In math, you might consider them postulates.

The Declaration of Independence has an example of an axiom …
We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.

Note the acknowledgment of a Creator who defines Rights that Governments must safeguard. Note, too, that without the acknowledgment of a Creator, the premise that Man is endowed with “certain unalienable Rights” becomes just a matter of public opinion. Morality becomes as unpredictable as weather and modern fashion. Laws can change just as radically, permitting now what would have been serious crimes in the past. Moral relativism is whimsical based on no absolute truths. Therefore, how can one hold a concept of “certain unalienable Rights” if the concept of absolute truths is not accepted. Nothing is certain.

In the movie “The Song of Bernadette”, it started with a quotation (which I found troublesome):
For the man who believes in God, no explanation is necessary.
For the man who does not believe in God, no explanation is possible.

I’ve come to believe in the truth of the statement. The existence of God is an irreducible fact. Yet, you have to choose to believe the axiom. You can attempt to explain your reason for believing the axiom, but it can neither be proved or disproved with explanations.

In my life, I had little trouble believing in God, even though such a belief boils down to the same irreducible question. That is, if the Universe just exists, or if God who created the Universe just exists, then what caused the Universe or God to come into existence in the first place? Both aspects represents questions about axioms that cannot be explained.

Our Church tells us that God is the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end, who always was and always will be and will always remain the same. Note that always remains the same suggests a timeless, unchanging absolute truth.

continued…

 

[wynnejj]

I was at a party and the subject of evolution came up. I asked the question, “You’re asking me to believe that from mindless, inanimate, chaos and disorder came intelligent life and a world that is seemingly governed by natural law and order. In my world view, all things that are NOT kept up by intelligent action fall into decline, decay and decomposition. I believe in a universe created and maintained by intelligent design and ongoing action. Your story reminds me of this female comedian whose whole comedy routine revolves around telling a highly contrived story that is favorable to her world view, and when she sees the audience isn’t buying her story, she delivers her punch line… WELL!!! IT COULD HAPPEN!!!”.

It was interesting that for every common sense objection that I would propose, my debating opponent would point to some “scientific study” that would be admittedly flawed, inconclusive but… ahem, clearly suggested that … “WELL!!! IT COULD HAPPEN!!!”.

What was clear to me was that this individual was way more intelligent and knowledgeable than myself. What was also clear to me was that he presented some fascinating evidence and some logical argument. Yet, what was not clear to me was that he could be characterized as a man of wisdom. The Bible tells us that Wisdom begins with Fear of the Lord. This individual chose as his axiom that God does not exist. That our universe, which suggests a natural law and order to things, came about by chance and happenstance. It’s an axiom that I can’t accept.

Let’s look at another axiom that is questionable to most of the world, “Jesus is Lord”.

If you come from another culture, Jesus moral teachings may be compelling, but that is far from asserting that “Jesus is Lord” or that the stories of his miracles are true. How do we know that it is not legend? Without some way to verify the truth of these alleged supernatural events, when evangelizing to a non-believer, one is reduced to exclaiming “WELL!!! IT COULD HAPPEN!!!”.

How do we know whether or not society promotes religious beliefs to manipulate social behavior in a beneficial way with a myth of eternal reward or punishment, augmenting those areas of social behavior that cannot be properly enforced by the rule of law? After all, that has to be the explanation for all the other religions of the world, if they are truly just man-made creations. Why would one believe Christianity over any other religion?

To me, the objective sign that the Catholic Church is the one, true religion which has the blessing of the one, true God are the saints themselves. It is the rich history of miracles testified by people who asked a saint to ask God for some special favor and received a supernatural miracle. It seems that God grants favors through the intercession of saints to signify that that person is a saint and can be reliably emulated as a good role model reflecting the character of God, most especially in some particular aspect.

continued…

 

[wynnejj]

Let’s look at some derived knowledge, based on the “Jesus is Lord” axiom, to which most of the world considers an outright lie… “The Pope is Infallible”

When the Pope declares a Doctrine of the Church, then God’s revealed truth, as pronounced by the Pope and guided by the Holy Spirit, never fails to be true. This is different from saying the Pope is infallible in his personal behavior or offhand opinions. The point is that the Catholic Church is the Bureau of Standards and Measures of God’s Revealed Truth.

How do we derive this knowledge…
Because “Jesus is Lord” and he instituted his new Church when he stated “Thou art Peter and upon this Rock, I will build my church, and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it.” and again “Whatever you shall bind on earth will be bound in Heaven, whatever you shall loose on earth shall be loosed in Heaven”.

Now you are probably wondering at this point about where am I going with this discussion…

You are about to go through a process of Confirmation which is the gift of the Holy Spirit who is Wisdom. As you mature into adulthood, you will be exposed to highly intelligent and knowledgeable people, but do not confuse that with wisdom. Wisdom comes from the Holy Spirit and is your moral compass. It needs to be cultivated with Bible study, prayer and the practice of faith. Without a moral compass, highly intelligent and highly knowledgeable people are like super computers with large data stores running amok with bad programming.

As you go through life, you may hit points where you may question your faith. You may get to the point where you may want to leave the Church, and feel that your reasons are just. Like a marriage, there will be times when it is not going well. To weather the storm, often all that is needed is the conviction that you must stay the course (divorce is not an option).

But it really helps if you are confirmed and grounded in the axioms of your faith.

Hope this all makes sense,

Sincerely yours,
Your Uncle

 

[rtechie]

Can you actually come up with anything specific to complain about? Most of these “speech codes” involve not calling people “fag” or “******”. Should students be able to do that?

Are you complaining that Catholics aren’t allowed to aggressively proselytize in high schools or public colleges? Too bad. Nobody else gets to either, unless you think students should have mandatory Satanism classes.

Educated people are generally less religions because they are less superstitious and religion is a form of superstition. You’ll find the Muslims and Hindus making the exact same complaints about secular education, often word for word.

I don’t know how teaching about climate change is in any way “anti-Catholic”. Denying climate change isn’t based on religious convictions, it’s based on bribes from the oil industry and stupidity.

 

[Stillness]

Educated people are generally less religions because they are less superstitious and religion is a form of superstition.

Religion is a form of philosophy.

 

[rtechie]

Sure, their kids will know how to operate all the latest devices but their lives will be centered on God, not the world.

No, they won’t. You can’t teach electrical engineering in your kitchen. What you’re doing is anti-education hysteria and you’re crippling your children’s future.

You might say “Well, they’ll learn about all that important stuff in college.” A college he’ll never get into because you didn’t prepare him. The biggest mistake parents make in education is thing that grade school (K through 12) is some soft of “holding pen” where kids only learn the “basics” and everything important is taught in college. This is total nonsense. I started learning computer programing, advanced mathematics, and electrical engineering when I was SIX. I started attending college classes when I was 14, and ended up teaching most of my major courses. I dropped out at 18 to go work for Netscape.

Do you think the Chinese or Indians are pulling their kids out of school because they’re “not religious enough”? All Chinese families and most Indian families pay large sums of money to send their kids to K-12, they same thing you disdain getting for free.

My child is 1, and he’s already attending school and has tutors. That’s who your kid is going to compete with.

If you want your kids to end up working in fast food you’ve got a great plan.

 

[rtechie]

Then I have referred the readers to reserch form " google " under specific headings. There are also books in the Catalogue list under " books, " at the EWTN web site which deal with the same types of concerns.

Sorry, I’m not going to do your research for you. If you have an argument to make or evidence to present, do so. As you can tell from most responses, most responders have no idea what you’re talking about. You need to give specific examples of this “pseudoscience”.

If you’re complaining about “atheism”, not only is that topic banned, but it’s not taught in universities. I will admit that most of my Philosophy professors were pretty harsh in their assessment of Western religions (little time was spent on the East), but that’s almost inevitable and the only time these issues were brought up. We spent a bit of time on Kierkegaard and I’ll admit that study of his writings certainly drove me away from religion. I don’t think my experience was typical, I was a Philosophy major (I had a double-major in Philosophy and Computer Science).

 

[jimmy]

I am so glad you started this thread, because science has never accomplished anything…except the invention of computers, phones, tv’s, cameras, the Internet (on which we can go on catholic answers), the internal combustion engine, cars, airplanes, space travel, the electric light, the radio, internal heating and air, refrigiration, vaccines for polio, small pox, measles, and other diseases, steroids and other drugs, anesthesia, artificial hearts, artificial limbs, pacemakers, robotics, planes that don’t need a pilot to fly, siri for your iPhone, electric guitars, pianos, and amps, microwaves, sewage, nuclear power, solar power, wind energy…

But the point is that science has done nothing. It is false, and we need to shelter ourselves and our kids from its LIES.

 

[Razanir]

Please avoid the " E " subject, it is banned and this thread should not be closed. This thread as established is not meant to be a spring board to the " E " subject. If the moderator stops by I hope he will blame specific offenders and not the thread itself.

Linus2nd

I doubt the mods will shut this thread down because of one mention of “the E word.” I think they’d understand if it briefly gets mentioned then we immediately cut off that topic

Can you actually come up with anything specific to complain about? Most of these “speech codes” involve not calling people “fag” or “******”. Should students be able to do that?

Are you complaining that Catholics aren’t allowed to aggressively proselytize in high schools or public colleges? Too bad. Nobody else gets to either, unless you think students should have mandatory Satanism classes.

Educated people are generally less religions because they are less superstitious and religion is a form of superstition. You’ll find the Muslims and Hindus making the exact same complaints about secular education, often word for word.

I don’t know how teaching about climate change is in any way “anti-Catholic”. Denying climate change isn’t based on religious convictions, it’s based on bribes from the oil industry and stupidity.

I disagree with you about religion being superstition, but I agree with your sentiments. It’s not that teachers are trying to be antireligious, as it is that they’re not promoting them.

Do you think the Chinese or Indians are pulling their kids out of school because they’re “not religious enough”? All Chinese families and most Indian families pay large sums of money to send their kids to K-12, they same thing you disdain getting for free.

That partly because their educational system is set up that high school is more like college.

My child is 1, and he’s already attending school and has tutors. That’s who your kid is going to compete with.

At ONE? You mean before many babies learn to talk, and about when they learn to walk. Maybe a day care or something, or a speech therapist, but I must respectfully be skeptical of these claims

 

[edwest2]

Can you actually come up with anything specific to complain about? Most of these “speech codes” involve not calling people “fag” or “******”. Should students be able to do that?

Are you complaining that Catholics aren’t allowed to aggressively proselytize in high schools or public colleges? Too bad. Nobody else gets to either, unless you think students should have mandatory Satanism classes.

Educated people are generally less religions because they are less superstitious and religion is a form of superstition. You’ll find the Muslims and Hindus making the exact same complaints about secular education, often word for word.

I don’t know how teaching about climate change is in any way “anti-Catholic”. Denying climate change isn’t based on religious convictions, it’s based on bribes from the oil industry and stupidity.

Untrue, immoral ideas are pushed onto students by force of law. Your last statement is emotional and not founded on any facts whatsoever. I am neither stupid or have I received a bribe from the oil industry.

If you want to promote your worldview, I suggest you stop insulting people. And yes, anti-God indoctrination in schools happens all the time. That’s why when so-called ““scientific”” topics are brought up here which don’t align with the propaganda, the Defense of Science SWAT Team appears immediately.

Peace,
Ed

 

[edwest2]

Religion is a form of philosophy.

That doesn’t explain over 1 billion Catholics. Your passive-aggressive comments will be reported if you keep this up.

Ed

 

[edwest2]

No, they won’t. You can’t teach electrical engineering in your kitchen. What you’re doing is anti-education hysteria and you’re crippling your children’s future.

You might say “Well, they’ll learn about all that important stuff in college.” A college he’ll never get into because you didn’t prepare him. The biggest mistake parents make in education is thing that grade school (K through 12) is some soft of “holding pen” where kids only learn the “basics” and everything important is taught in college. This is total nonsense. I started learning computer programing, advanced mathematics, and electrical engineering when I was SIX. I started attending college classes when I was 14, and ended up teaching most of my major courses. I dropped out at 18 to go work for Netscape.

Do you think the Chinese or Indians are pulling their kids out of school because they’re “not religious enough”? All Chinese families and most Indian families pay large sums of money to send their kids to K-12, they same thing you disdain getting for free.

My child is 1, and he’s already attending school and has tutors. That’s who your kid is going to compete with.

If you want your kids to end up working in fast food you’ve got a great plan.

Hysteria! Crippling! Oh my Non-Deity!! My kids are doomed to work in Fast Food!!

Enjoy your baseless accusations. Keep it up and your next post will get reported.

Ed

 

[edwest2]

I am so glad you started this thread, because science has never accomplished anything…except the invention of computers, phones, tv’s, cameras, the Internet (on which we can go on catholic answers), the internal combustion engine, cars, airplanes, space travel, the electric light, the radio, internal heating and air, refrigiration, vaccines for polio, small pox, measles, and other diseases, steroids and other drugs, anesthesia, artificial hearts, artificial limbs, pacemakers, robotics, planes that don’t need a pilot to fly, siri for your iPhone, electric guitars, pianos, and amps, microwaves, sewage, nuclear power, solar power, wind energy…

But the point is that science has done nothing. It is false, and we need to shelter ourselves and our kids from its LIES.

Your last statement is an emotional attack, nothing more.

Yes, we need to tell our kids the truth. Or they might find themselves in the following situation.

hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674047143

Ed

 

[Stillness]

That doesn’t explain over 1 billion Catholics. Your passive-aggressive comments will be reported if you keep this up.

Ed

Passive agressive? I was stating my understanding of something. What did I do to be reported?

 

[Razanir]

Untrue, immoral ideas are pushed onto students by force of law. Your last statement is emotional and not founded on any facts whatsoever. I am neither stupid or have I received a bribe from the oil industry.

If you want to promote your worldview, I suggest you stop insulting people. And yes, anti-God indoctrination in schools happens all the time. That’s why when so-called ““scientific”” topics are brought up here which don’t align with the propaganda, the Defense of Science SWAT Team appears immediately.

Again, I’m really interested to know where you stand specifically on theistic evolution v YEC. Anyway, in my experience yes teachers have never promoted religion, but it’s also never been attacked. The only times it’s ever come up are when we’d briefly talk about them in history. And even then, only historically and comparatively. Public education is actually why I know about Islam’s connection to Isaac.

Enjoy your baseless accusations. Keep it up and your next post will get reported.

That doesn’t explain over 1 billion Catholics. Your passive-aggressive comments will be reported if you keep this up.

I’m in no position to talk because I, too, have threatened to report posts. But at least one of mine was because it actually was entirely against forum rules. With the exception of the “Religion is superstition” comment, I saw no issue in these posts

 

[Linusthe2nd]

Can you elaborate?

Not necessary, I have given you the means to do your own research. Parents with children know what I’m talking about. Cheers. Linus2nd

 

[Linusthe2nd]

Sorry, I’m not going to do your research for you. If you have an argument to make or evidence to present, do so. As you can tell from most responses, most responders have no idea what you’re talking about. You need to give specific examples of this “pseudoscience”.

If you’re complaining about “atheism”, not only is that topic banned, but it’s not taught in universities. I will admit that most of my Philosophy professors were pretty harsh in their assessment of Western religions (little time was spent on the East), but that’s almost inevitable and the only time these issues were brought up. We spent a bit of time on Kierkegaard and I’ll admit that study of his writings certainly drove me away from religion. I don’t think my experience was typical, I was a Philosophy major (I had a double-major in Philosophy and Computer Science).

Well, if you insist on twisting my words and meaning I would conclude you are practicing Sophism. I am not debating anyone on anything, including evolution and/or atheism

Catholic parents and other men and women of faith are aware of the aggressivness of what I call Professional, Ideological Atheism. What is happening is clearly visible on U-Tube. Lecture Halls in colleges and universities all over the world are filled with young " skulls full of mush " and are an easy target for the propaganda offered by these " pseudo scientists. " And then there are the " off the cuff " remarks an instructor, who is an authority figure, in the class room or in social settings.

You would probably say that, so what, it’s a matter of free speech or something like that. And you would be right. That these men and women peddle pseudo science, attempting to brain wash innocent childen is something they have a legal right to do, but it isn’t very nice.

Christian parents need to be warned what awaits their children when they are away to school and how to prepare them for what they will find. They have a right to protect the faith of their children as best they can and that is what I am attempting to do. And it wouldn’t matter how many people were persuaded to " swarm " this thread and raise objections. In fact that would probably be the best proof I could offer to parents as to what their children can expect when they go off to school. Yes, I think that would be proof positive. Linus2nd

Please note, I did not bring up nor did I suggest discussing either Atheism or Evolution and I am confident that the moderator is on top of that. So please stop bringing these things up!!!.

 

[ThinkingSapien]

Again, I’m really interested to know where you stand specifically on theistic evolution v YEC.

Full elaboration of one’s position may delve into prohibited topics. Please see this thread for more information.

 

[ThinkingSapien]

Passive agressive? I was stating my understanding of something. What did I do to be reported?

I think edwest2 may have replied to your msg by mistake. From looking at the history of this thread I get the impression it was meant to be directed to another user.