K
kage_ar
Guest
The Saints in heaven are Christians - right?
1 Tim. 2:1–5
Matt. 5:44
Rom. 15:30–32
Eph. 6:18–20
Col. 4:3
1 Thess. 5:25
2 Thess. 3:1
2 Thess. 1:11
Rev. 8:3-4
Revelation 5:8
- Status
1 Tim. 2:1–5
Matt. 5:44
Rom. 15:30–32
Eph. 6:18–20
Col. 4:3
1 Thess. 5:25
2 Thess. 3:1
2 Thess. 1:11
Rev. 8:3-4
Revelation 5:8
V
VociMike
Guest
That is not true.
B
Blue_Serenity
Guest
Those passages do NOT say “saints in heaven”. They are referring to saints here on earth.
ALLFORHIM summed it up nicely:
K
kage_ar
Guest
The funny thing, I don’t find the “on earth” qualifier in any of those verses. That is the thing about us Catholics, we are a bit more family oriented - our older brothers and sisters in Heaven just as much a part of the community as the brothers and sisters we see in the flesh every day.Those passages do NOT say “saints in heaven”. They are referring to saints here on earth.
ALLFORHIM summed it up nicely:
A
ALLFORHIM
Guest
A
ALLFORHIM
Guest
Hi,
Well where is it in the bible then that tells us to do so? I think it is probably part of the CC sacred tradition.
B
Blue_Serenity
Guest
The more family oriented comment seems like a low blow, since we believe our relatives that have gone before us are now in Heaven waiting for us.
Anything that is NOT listed in the Bible is trivial and has no bearing on our salvation.
If it was really THAT important, God would have wanted it written down for us to believe and follow. Mary’s sinlessness and praying to her and the saints isn’t necessary for salvation.
A
ALLFORHIM
Guest
I agree:thumbsup:The more family oriented comment seems like a low blow, since we believe our relatives that have gone before us are now in Heaven waiting for us.
Anything that is NOT listed in the Bible is trivial and has no bearing on our salvation.
K
kage_ar
Guest
In no way meant as a low blow - in my 30 plus years as a non-Catholic Christian, I was taught the same things you now believe. I thank my non-Catholic Christian parents and grandparents for giving me a faith foundation - The journey to the Catholic Church is one that opens up new depth and breadth of this beautiful Faith! We Catholics feel close to those who are in heaven, that is all I meant.The more family oriented comment seems like a low blow, since we believe our relatives that have gone before us are now in Heaven waiting for us.
Anything that is NOT listed in the Bible is trivial and has no bearing on our salvation.
At the danger of a full hijack of this thread - most non-Catholic Christians do hold things important that are not mentioned in Scripture - the Trinity is one that pops to mind. Does not Scripture tell us that there are many miracles done by Jesus not recorded because there would not be enough books to hold them all? And there have to have been many words Christ spoke that were not recorded - all those are important.
Hijack over, I promise!
B
Blue_Serenity
Guest
We do too because afterall, those are the ones we’re going to be spending eternity with.
K
kage_ar
Guest
And I imagine they are praying for you, even if you don’t ask them too.
B
Blue_Serenity
Guest
They very well could be.And I imagine they are praying for you, even if you don’t ask them too.
A
az_4_faith
Guest
Saints-in-the-making = those of us on earth = Church Militant
Saints-being-purified = those in Purgatory = Church Suffering
Saints glorified = those in Heaven = Church Triumphant
Add all three together = One Church Unified
We pray for each other on earth. We pray for those in Purgatory. We pray through those in Heaven, especially Our Lady. We are all united in praying to and worshipping One God in Three Persons.
We’re all brothers and sisters, one big family, looking out for one another.
There are alot of things that we believe in, i.e. the Trinity, the Incarnation, Purgatory etc., that aren’t explicity defined verbatum in the Bible but are conceptually all there and are dogmas of the Church. Our Church Father’s have spent two millenia helping to word these doctrines to our understanding, using Scripture and Tradition. They didn’t invent the doctrines, God did, and the Church Father’s have interpretted them for our benefit, using all their Wisdom and all the Holy Resources at their disposable.
Saints-being-purified = those in Purgatory = Church Suffering
Saints glorified = those in Heaven = Church Triumphant
Add all three together = One Church Unified
We pray for each other on earth. We pray for those in Purgatory. We pray through those in Heaven, especially Our Lady. We are all united in praying to and worshipping One God in Three Persons.
We’re all brothers and sisters, one big family, looking out for one another.
There are alot of things that we believe in, i.e. the Trinity, the Incarnation, Purgatory etc., that aren’t explicity defined verbatum in the Bible but are conceptually all there and are dogmas of the Church. Our Church Father’s have spent two millenia helping to word these doctrines to our understanding, using Scripture and Tradition. They didn’t invent the doctrines, God did, and the Church Father’s have interpretted them for our benefit, using all their Wisdom and all the Holy Resources at their disposable.
D
dessert
Guest
The scripture that I like to refer to is John 11; 1-44
Jesus specifically speaks to Lazurus as Lazarus as He says he is asleep. Mary is the one who had the faith and spoke the faith and belief. IMOP Jesus is telling us we can talk to the dead as to the saints as Lazarus was not really gone. He was their brother and Jesus says we are in the family of God so the saints are our brothers and sister in the Lord . Jesus said Father I thank you for hearing me, I say for that they may believe. Martha was angry becaue she was cynical and said that if you had been here this would not have happened. She said I know he will rise in the ressurection the last day.
And Jesus said I am the resurrction and the life so in other words he lives. And also Mary said if you had come.
IMOP we can pray to and or with the saints as they are our brothers and sisters with God.
My bible does a cross refeence or verse 43 and when he had said this in a loud voice “Lazarus come out!”
notice loud voice as he is sleeping or that he may be heeard by all
with John 5;28-29
Do not be amazed at this,because the hour is coming in which all who are in the tombs will hear his voicce. and will come out , those who have done good deeds to the ressurection of life, but those who haave done wicked deeds to the resurrection of condemnation. dessert
D
dessert
Guest
if you invest in the New Cathholic Answer Bible the NAB CE we call it you will be able to compare the catholic understanding better and it is about 29.95 plus shippping from the Catholic Company. Hope this helps dessert
W
wardrandolph
Guest
I would suggest a careful,historical research into Biblical versions of the Bible.We need to keep in mind that for about 1400-1500 hundred yrs.,the Church(Catholic,there were no Protestant churches)read and taught from the Alexandrian or Greek old testament.When Protestants broke away from the Catholic church,they excluded 7 old testament books because Praying for the dead,the dead praying for us,indulgences and other Jewish beliefs that were handed on to the Church did not fit this new theology.Some of the traditions and beliefs of the Church that this new theology left out ,like praying for the dead are in 2Macc.12:38-46,The dead(are they really dead?)praying for the living,2Macc15 tells of a vision that shows Onias a former High prist praying for the whole Jewish community and also shows Jeremiah praying for his people and the hol city.Ever wonder where the Jewish feast Purim came from? look in 2Macc.15:36.Luke 15:7 speaks of the joy in heaven over one sinner who repents.I am not attacking Protestants and dont want to offend anyone but please read these scriptures then you can appreciate some more of what the Lord has for me n you.
D
dessert
Guest
I was reading some of Maccabees and I tried to look some of the words up in my strongs concordenc and they don’t have those books in there ither but my concord is old but it has hebrew and greek. It doesn’t have the concord for those seven books. This also got me curioous about the ides of March so I looked that up to no avail and I looked up that Judas and he is not listed except inMacc.
there are really pulling the wool over our eyes aren’t they. 
How can they say a man did not exist that actually killed a bad king and my NAB said that it didn’t last long as they put his head up but then they got a bad king that killed a good king again. Does this have anything to do with Julies Caesar getting killed in 44bc and the ides of march? I think this is a roman celebration day that rome still celebrtes? You seem to know a lot but now I am at my storngs which I thought was legit.c.1890 but mine is c. 1974 of course do you have one? dessert
there are really pulling the wool over our eyes aren’t they. How can they say a man did not exist that actually killed a bad king and my NAB said that it didn’t last long as they put his head up but then they got a bad king that killed a good king again. Does this have anything to do with Julies Caesar getting killed in 44bc and the ides of march? I think this is a roman celebration day that rome still celebrtes? You seem to know a lot but now I am at my storngs which I thought was legit.c.1890 but mine is c. 1974 of course do you have one? dessert
W
wardrandolph
Guest
Hi.I do have a Strongs exhaustive concordance that I use for a KJV.Thompson chain referance bible.I enjoy both but you have to keep in mind that 7 inspired O.T books are not included.Although I am Catholic,most of my friends are Protestant.There have been churches in my area(which is about 95%protestant)that have split over use of the KJV.and the NKJV.A good example for using Strongs along with a KJV version of the bible is Phil.3:20.“our conversation is in heaven”,in 1600’s England they understood the meaning of this passage.For us it is confusing to take this literally for the "conversation"it is talking about means “citizenship”.I believe the New Am.bible is a great gift from our Bishops.Also the Maccabees are inspired historical books telling of Alexanders{Greek}invasion,and finally the Roman invasion of Israel setting the stage for the birth of our Lord.I didnt mean to ramble on but I would encourge youto prayerfully study "all "scripture.May the Lord bless you.
M
Milliardo
Guest
ALLFORHIM seems to forget that when Catholics pray to the saints, they do so with the saints praying in Jesus’ name in mind. In short, it is not unlike when we ask others to pray for us, or we praying for others. Jesus works through the saints, as much as He works through living people; therefore then, in Jesus’ name we ask the saints to pray for us, and they intercede in Jesus’ name. As Monsignor Soc Villegas so often says, only Jesus. It is all Jesus. The saints do not act of themselves, nor do Catholics think that the saints by themselves have any inherent power; if they do so, it is because Christ wills it so, not because they have that by themselves.
A
ALLFORHIM
Guest
Hi,
Thanks for clarifying for me as to how the catholics do it. I have always got the impression that you would just simply pray to a saint without going through Jesus. Although I still dont believe we are to be asking the Saints in heaven for anything(per the bible)you have clarified your belief for me.
- Status