Protestant hymns?

[mercygate]

I don’t know about that but I do know some priests that seem to be more comfortable singing the Latin than saying it. Polyphony sounds pretty good too. What’s your feel about that?

Polyphony is my idea of “soul music” in any language. As an Episcopalian, we used to sing Palestrina, Tallis, and Byrd in both Latin and English.

 

[mercygate]

How funny.

I play piano for a 100 year-old Catholic parish that is ministered by the Conventual Franciscan Friars. Here’s the website: stanthonyrockford.com/

“Canticle of the Sun” is like a “theme song” in that parish! Everyone loves it! It is a guaranteed “everyone will sing out” hymn selection. I love playing it for the people because I know that THEY like it!

This hymn is so meaningful to the Franciscans, and through their life and words, they make this hymn meaningful to all of us.

You should have heard the homilies from the Franciscan friars this Sunday when the Gospel was “The Parable of the Soils!” Woohoo! I wanted to go straight home and start a garden! (Unfortunately, nothing grows once I touch it.)

If this thread accomplishes anything at all, I hope that somehow I can get across the message that all of us are different, and what we love in hymnody is different, and that’s OK according to the Catholic Church! There is no such thing as a “dreadful” hymn! A hymn that does nothing for you might cause me to dissolve into tears.

What I’m really looking for with this thread is “Protestant Hymns,” whatever they are. I see the term thrown around throughout this forum, but so far in this thread, no one has succeeded in convincing me that there are hymns in the Catholic hymnals that are so Protestant that they should be ripped from the hymnals and banned from the Mass. What exactly are those “Protestant hymns?” and why are they unsuitable for Catholic hymnals?

I am beginning to suspect that “Protestant hymns” are hymns that someone doesn’t personally like, but that’s probably a bit wicked of me.

My sympathies to you!

I cringe every time I hear “We’ll dance in the forest, we’ll play in the field.”

Some things do not translate well across cultures.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Polyphony is my idea of “soul music” in any language. As an Episcopalian, we used to sing Palestrina, Tallis, and Byrd in both Latin and English.

Tallis and Byrd! The BOMB!

 

[JKirkLVNV]

My sympathies to you!

I cringe every time I hear “We’ll dance in the forest, we’ll play in the field.”

Some things do not translate well across cultures.

I always have a horrible image of Our Lord standing in a field with a bunch of Smurfs. “Lord of the Dance” does me in, too, as pictures of the Holy One leading the Faithful in a line dance, ie, the Electric Slide, race across my mind.

I am evil, I fear.

 

[mercygate]

Tallis and Byrd! The BOMB!

Jusquin du Pres – the H-bomb!

 

[latinmass]

If we wouldn’t have Billy Graham, (a nice protestant man) give a homily, why would we use protestant music in our mass, our sacrafice to our Lord of the one true Church?

 

[Joe_5859]

If we wouldn’t have Billy Graham, (a nice protestant man) give a homily, why would we use protestant music in our mass, our sacrafice to our Lord of the one true Church?

We wouldn’t have a Catholic layperson or nun give the homily, either, does that mean that we can’t use songs written by them, either?

And what exactly is “Protestant music”? Does it refer to the author, the instrumentation, the lyrics, or all of the above?

 

[latinmass]

We wouldn’t have a Catholic layperson or nun give the homily, either, does that mean that we can’t use songs written by them, either?

And what exactly is “Protestant music”? Does it refer to the author, the instrumentation, the lyrics, or all of the above?

The point I am trying to make is that it is about the author. We do not need any guidance or music from those who have heretical beliefs in our mass. Those who do not believe in the Eucharist, Confession, Holy Orders, etc. and or have rejected the Catholic Church, the Church Jesus started, need not the slightest influence in the mass, it would not be prudent. I do believe we have enough music in our Church to support our liturgies, especially in light that Gregorian is the ideal for all masses as the Pope has stated.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

If we wouldn’t have Billy Graham, (a nice protestant man) give a homily, why would we use protestant music in our mass, our sacrafice to our Lord of the one true Church?

Because a lot of it is better than what is currently on offer at Mass. It has more to do with God as God IS than, for example, “Sing a New Church.”

 

[Joe_5859]

The point I am trying to make is that it is about the author. We do not need any guidance or music from those who have heretical beliefs in our mass. Those who do not believe in the Eucharist, Confession, Holy Orders, etc. and or have rejected the Catholic Church, the Church Jesus started, need not the slightest influence in the mass, it would not be prudent. I do believe we have enough music in our Church to support our liturgies, especially in light that Gregorian is the ideal for all masses as the Pope has stated.

The Catholic Church has a knack for holding fast to that which is good, even from outsiders. That’s probably why my copy of the Liturgy of the Hours has hymns in the back that were written by people like Martin Luther, Welsley, etc.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

The point I am trying to make is that it is about the author. We do not need any guidance or music from those who have heretical beliefs in our mass. Those who do not believe in the Eucharist, Confession, Holy Orders, etc. and or have rejected the Catholic Church, the Church Jesus started, need not the slightest influence in the mass, it would not be prudent. I do believe we have enough music in our Church to support our liturgies, especially in light that Gregorian is the ideal for all masses as the Pope has stated.

You make the philosophical error of “genesis.” Something is not inherently bad because of its source. Most Protestant hymns do not even address the issue of the Eucharist, Confession, Holy Orders, etc. Examine the hymnody of Bible-believing/fundamentalist/evangelical Christians. There’s very little that should offend a Catholic.

As for Gregorian chant, I’m a fan, I sing in a schola. But GC in Latin and I think MOST people (obviously not all) would prefer the vernacular. Of course, we can chant in the vernacular as well. We should thank God that Pope Benedict has given us a choice.

 

[latinmass]

You make the philosophical error of “genesis.” Something is not inherently bad because of its source. Most Protestant hymns do not even address the issue of the Eucharist, Confession, Holy Orders, etc. Examine the hymnody of Bible-believing/fundamentalist/evangelical Christians. There’s very little that should offend a Catholic.

As for Gregorian chant, I’m a fan, I sing in a schola. But GC in Latin and I think MOST people (obviously not all) would prefer the vernacular. Of course, we can chant in the vernacular as well. We should thank God that Pope Benedict has given us a choice.

That is the problem that the N.O. has run into, it does at times what the people want and not what God wants.

 

[latinmass]

The Catholic Church has a knack for holding fast to that which is good, even from outsiders. That’s probably why my copy of the Liturgy of the Hours has hymns in the back that were written by people like Martin Luther, Welsley, etc.

I don’t think you realize what you are saying. Because a Catholic bood has something from Martin Luther means it is good. I think this is a prime example of protestantism seeping into the Church. Your example proves it is no longer seeping but enmeshed. What a shame.

 

[Cat]

If we wouldn’t have Billy Graham, (a nice protestant man) give a homily, why would we use protestant music in our mass, our sacrafice to our Lord of the one true Church?

So Bach is out? And Handel?

My daughter sang “Rejoice” from The Messiah last year at Christmas Day Mass (as a prelude). You would say that this piece should never be sung at Mass? Or any other pieces from The Messiah, including the “Hallelujah Chorus”?–just because they were written by a Protestant?

 

[mercygate]

So Bach is out? And Handel?

My daughter sang “Rejoice” from The Messiah last year at Christmas Day Mass (as a prelude). You would say that this piece should never be sung at Mass? Or any other pieces from The Messiah, including the “Hallelujah Chorus”?–just because they were written by a Protestant?

I believe Bach and Handel were not allowed in Catholic churches before the Council.

 

[elgar]

I don’t think you realize what you are saying. Because a Catholic bood has something from Martin Luther means it is good. I think this is a prime example of protestantism seeping into the Church. Your example proves it is no longer seeping but enmeshed. What a shame.

There was a time when the choral and instrumental works of J.S. Bach was not permitted in Catholic worship. A pope of pre-Vatican II days (can’t remember which one) lifted the ban–Praise the Lord! Just because the author is Catholic doesn’t make it worthy to be sung and played at Mass. Pope Benedict XVI is a great fan of Bach and other classical composers not all of whom were Catholic.

 

[mercygate]

There was a time when the choral and instrumental works of J.S. Bach was not permitted in Catholic worship. A pope of pre-Vatican II days (can’t remember which one) lifted the ban–Praise the Lord! Just because the author is Catholic doesn’t make it worthy to be sung and played at Mass. Pope Benedict XVI is a great fan of Bach and other classical composers not all of whom were Catholic.

It kind of makes me scratch my head that so few people have commented on the execrable theology and execrable music that have been unhappily married in many contemporary Catholic church songs.

It makes me scratch my head that people would prefer bad Catholic hymnody to good hymnody with good theology written by a non-Catholic.

That is taking sectarianism to absurdity.

 

[Joe_5859]

I don’t think you realize what you are saying. Because a Catholic bood has something from Martin Luther means it is good. I think this is a prime example of protestantism seeping into the Church. Your example proves it is no longer seeping but enmeshed. What a shame.

We’re not just talking about any old “Catholic book”, we’re talking about the Liturgy of the Hours, “the very prayer which Christ himself together with his Body addresses to the Father” (CCC 1174; cf. SC 84). I would assume that the hymns have been approved for inclusion. If they have been found suitable for inclusion by the legitimate authority for such things, who am I to disagree.

I’m curious as to how this indicates that “protestantism” has seeped into the Church (or become enmeshed in it). How exactly does using a song written by a Protestant (that in no way contradicts Church teaching) lead to any sort of “protestantizing”? Especially since most people don’t even know who wrote a particular hymn. Is a Protestant completely incapable of writing a hymn that is not at odds with Catholic teaching?

 

[JKirkLVNV]

That is the problem that the N.O. has run into, it does at times what the people want and not what God wants.

Interpreting what God wants has been left up to the CHURCH, not to you and not to me. The Church has allowed the use of some hymnody from other Christian sources. There is no hard and fast emperical evidence that the TLM was what God wanted. We know that the Holy Sacrifice IS what God wants, but it may be clothed in either the OF or the EF.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

There was a time when the choral and instrumental works of J.S. Bach was not permitted in Catholic worship. A pope of pre-Vatican II days (can’t remember which one) lifted the ban–Praise the Lord! Just because the author is Catholic doesn’t make it worthy to be sung and played at Mass. Pope Benedict XVI is a great fan of Bach and other classical composers not all of whom were Catholic.

Exactly! Explain to me how Handel and Bach offend the Catholic Faith? Bach’s Mass in B Minor, anyone? Handel’s Zadok the Priest?