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Loud-living-dogma
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To an unfamiliar hymn? In real time? In tempo? As you hear it the first time? Kudos!
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TheLittleLady
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Yep. It was something that we learned as children, like riding a bike or tying shoes, in fact it seems odd that other people cannot do it 
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stpurl
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Sources for your claims, please?
As opposed to this article from the New Liturgical Movement from October 31, 2009:
www.newliturgicalmovement.org
As opposed to this article from the New Liturgical Movement from October 31, 2009:
Women and Chant
Sacred liturgy and liturgical arts. Liturgical history and theology. The movements for the Usus Antiquior and Reform of the Reform.
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DeniseNY
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I like hymns in Church Slavonic.
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Loud-living-dogma
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I’d love to hear that in person. How do you predict the upcoming chords and voicings of an unfamiliar hymn?! Or even the upcoming melody of an unfamiliar hymn? Are you psychic?
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TheLittleLady
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You are now mocking.
Those of us who grew up singing learn to hear the harmonies of each note. We look at the hymnal, we listen with our ear and we sing the harmonizing note. It is not rocket science, it is a learned skill. I am sorry if you were not taught this skill.
This guide is a little different than when I learned, we did not have such thing as a 5 second delay. We learned by sitting on a piano bench and then built on that skill.
www.wikihow.com
Those of us who grew up singing learn to hear the harmonies of each note. We look at the hymnal, we listen with our ear and we sing the harmonizing note. It is not rocket science, it is a learned skill. I am sorry if you were not taught this skill.
This guide is a little different than when I learned, we did not have such thing as a 5 second delay. We learned by sitting on a piano bench and then built on that skill.
How to Harmonize: 12 Steps (with Pictures) - wikiHow
A harmony is a series of notes that blends with a song's melody to add character and please the ears. From figuring out the best combination of notes to singing without straying from your part, harmonizing is tough. Sing along as you play...
www.wikihow.com
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Loud-living-dogma
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Sorry if I seemed to be mocking. It’s just that you yourself said that you could pick out 4-part harmonies to unfamiliar hymns in real time.
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semper_catholicus
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I don’t like Protestant music at mass. I want purely Catholic music.
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Vonsalza
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Just want to throw out that since I was a cradle-Baptist, my favorite songs were the old standards that the Church approved. I always smiled when they started them up.
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Vonsalza
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They probably knew the melody from childhood and coming up with a harmony on-the-fly based on the melody was something that they learned to do.
I was a choir nerd in high school and learned how to do the very same thing. I’d come up with a bass harmony or counter-melody because I already knew how the melody went.
On simpler songs, I found often that sopranos and tenors carried the melody in different octaves and altos and basses carried the harmony in different octaves. Not true 4-part, but still sounded nice.
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TheLittleLady
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Why is it so odd to think when I hear a note I hear and can vocalize a harmonizing note? Then the next note and the next and the next.
Most hymns are not some sort of avant garde jazz creations, melody lines are fairly predictable.
Most hymns are not some sort of avant garde jazz creations, melody lines are fairly predictable.
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Sean77
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Martin Luther was actually an excellent Catholic. He did not reject the Church as his writings will easily attest. What he rejected was false teaching and practice that had crept into the Church. He actually raised his concerns to his Archbishop and to the Pope. Unfortunately, when he raised his concerns, the response of the Church was not to address the teachings but to demand blind obedience despite the scriptural objections that he had raised. Keep in mind that Martin Luther did not leave the Church. He was ex-communicated for his decision to stand on scripture over and above man’s authority. In other words, Luther did not leave the Church, the Roman Church left Luther. He did write some great hymns. A Mighty Fortress Is Our God…
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Mi_Rose
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I’m with you. I do that sometimes at mass. We sang all the time when I was a kid and it is a skill I picked up.
Ii was I sang more now but I can not hold the notes long enough to sinng many of the hymns. Thanks lungs.
Ii was I sang more now but I can not hold the notes long enough to sinng many of the hymns. Thanks lungs.
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stpurl
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Thank you for your non-Roman Catholic perspective. Unfortunately, it is not corroborated by even non-biased (i.e., neither Catholic nor Lutheran writers) documentation.
Since this is the Liturgy and Sacraments forum, may I respectfully suggest that you start a new thread in the non-Catholic Forum (you may link to this post of yours) if you wish to discuss your opinion regarding Martin Luther instead of hijacking this forum and thread topic.
Since this is the Liturgy and Sacraments forum, may I respectfully suggest that you start a new thread in the non-Catholic Forum (you may link to this post of yours) if you wish to discuss your opinion regarding Martin Luther instead of hijacking this forum and thread topic.
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AndrewAxland
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Sorry, but that article is pure fantasy. It’s totally contrary with everything we know about church music.
The first time women singers started to appear in the SOME Catholic churches was in the 1700s, and even though this was against the rules, it was sorta kinda tolerated, or not. It was very controversial, and completely forbidden in most Catholic areas. Since this was a Protestant innovation, it was much more common in countries with a high percentage of Protestants, particularly northern Germany and, later, the US.
As fa as the official policy of the Church, women were not allowed to sing at all during the liturgy unless there were no men present (cloistered convents). When they were finally officially allowed in 1954, they were not officially allowed to sing the liturgical parts of the mass (so no Gregorian Chant). They were not officially allowed to do that until 1983. Instances otherwise were against official policy, very controversial, and the practice, though it had become popular in some places like the US, was condemned in no uncertain terms by Pius X in 1903, (which was widely ignored in places where women singing had become established).
Here’s a much better article (PDF download):
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...oad/1034/888&usg=AOvVaw2lddCgV_1XqvbI1EHywRti
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Sean77
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Actually, I was on here for the purpose of reading some opinions of Roman Catholics about Protestant hymns and liturgy since we frequently borrow from one another. It was you who made the fallacious comment about Luther which had nothing to do with liturgy or hymnology, inviting the response. If any hijacking was performed, it was by you.
By the way, I’m a fan of “A Mighty Fortress Is Our God” as you would expect. I also love “Earth and All Stars”, “Amazing Grace”, and I have a special affection for “What Child Is This.”
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Pup7
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This almost killed me.
Followed closely by:
Y’all forgot the old standby, #5, Thou Art Saved By Faith Alone (Sola Fide, How I Love Thee).My favorite is #666 “Cast Down the Heathen Statues”
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Pup7
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No, we can just either read music, or we can “listen ahead” as the hymn is being sung. (LittleLady explained it better than that, but that’s what I always called it. You hear the prevailing key in the first four or five measures, sometimes in less, and your ear sort of leads you from there.)
LittleLady is so correct in saying hymns are predictable. A lot of the melodies are even the same, or similar, even between Protestant and Catholic hymnals. Some tunes carry their own names separate from the hymn (like with “Greensleeves” and the traditional “What Child Is This?” - same tune, different words. “Autumn” and “Nearer, My God, To Thee” are, I believe, another example). So sometimes I’ll hear the opening intro measures, and think - hang on, that’s [insert name of other song here].
I sing, pick at the piano (never formally learned to play, and that makes me sad), and spent years in marching band. My voice is formally trained, but my ear isn’t. I’m sure you have skills you can just “do” that I probably can’t (like if you’re really good at math, which I stink at).
It comes in handy when it’s songs you don’t know, actually.
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Loud-living-dogma
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Okay, if you are singers who can do that great, but I’m pretty sure you are in the minority, especially since I don’t see a lot of Catholics who seem to want to sing at all…
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Spyridon
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If you want to discuss the arch-heretic Luther, go start another thread.
Stop disrespecting the forums and the OP while trying to spread your half truths.
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