Protestant opinion on where Roman Catholic Church went into apostasy?

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At what point, for example, what decade, do you (or any posters) think Sola Scriptura became an authoritative method of interpretation of Scripture?
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Indeed Paul writes about keeping the oral (tradition) and written gospel commands. He wrote this before all things were put to writing, before all scripture had been penned.

Yet Barnabus exhorts us after most scripture had been penned with this,

“Those knowledgeable of the Lord’s precepts, keep them, as many as are written”.

Whike SS may not have been explicitly put forth, what was is the early variance of oral tradition, and to explicitly combat this, one gospel writer does just that, put things in order thru writing, and says so in normative fashion.

Not sure SS is a form to interpet scripture but moreso the norm for any teaching thru any authority, be it a presbyter/ bishop or council etc…
 
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I have been talking with some very extreme Protestants who say that which we call the Catholic Church never existed as a valid Church, but was apostate from the beginning. They admit the apostles were authentic followers of Jesus, but they never formed an institutional church. It doesn’t make sense to me, but that’s what they say. I should also say this tiny group is not typical of most Protestants.
 
The Catholic Church was often referred to as “Rome” or the “Church in Rome” or the “Roman church” or the “holy Roman Catholic Church” because that is where its headquarters were located.
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Roman Catholic refers to the Roman (Latin) Rite of the Church. There are many Catholics who aren’t Roman Catholic because they are part of other Rites- Maronite, Armenian, Syrian, etc.

The term “Roman Catholic” was used by the Church of England to try and say that they are one of three branches of Catholicism- Roman, Orthodox, and Anglican in order to legitimize their group. The term “Roman Catholic” to refer to the entire Catholic Church became so ingrained afterwards that many still think that it is the term to use, which it isn’t. My parish has Roman Catholic on the sign. That’s to distinguish it from Eastern Rite parishes.

There was a pope, I can’t remember the name, who wrote an encyclical to Protestants and referred to the Catholic Church as the Roman Catholic Church. They say, “See! Even the pope called you Roman Catholics!” No, the pope was just using the term that was colloquially used by Protestants.

Unfortunately, it is often used in a derogatory way such as “Romist” right along “Papist”.
 
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mcq72 said:
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historyfan81:
its a historical concensus the church was pacifist in these times (ie first to 4th century) said by their words and profesionals like Professor of Theology at Wheaton College writing that "literary evidence confirms the very strong internal coherence of the Church’s non-violent stance for the first three centuries.
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It is ironic that as soon as the civil authorities stopped persecuting the church, the church began using civil authority to enforce orthodoxy.
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The message of Jesus is centered around love, peace and non-violence, turning the other cheek and living in expectation of the same persecution given to “the Prophets which were before you.” Peter tried to use man’s reasoning at the betrayal but the statement that Jesus gave that “my Kingdom is not of this world” is just too hard to live by.
 
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The term “holy Roman Catholic Church” was used long before the Protestant Reformation. It was not invented by Protestants.
 
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Your Source? I’m sure this term, and countless others, was used at least once by someone. But was there routine use of the term Roman Catholic to refer to the Church in general, as opposed to the diocese of Rome?
 
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commenter said:
Your Source? I’m sure this term, and countless others, was used at least once by someone. But was there routine use of the term Roman Catholic to refer to the Church in general, as opposed to the diocese of Rome?
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Innocent III required the heretical Waldensians to make this profession of faith, which in part reads:

423 By the heart we believe and by the mouth we confess the one Church, not of heretics but the Holy Roman, Catholic, and Apostolic (Church) outside which we believe that no one is saved.

This was in the 1200s.

The Council of Florence used the term “Roman Church” in the first line of its decree on the Jacobites of Syria in 1441. It also used the term “holy Roman Church”.

Now, I’m not saying that people were routinely going around before the Reformation saying “Roman Catholic Church” all the time. What I am saying is that in the context of inter-church dialogue, such as when Catholics were interacting with heretics or with ancient churches outside of Western Europe, they would use “Roman” as an added descriptor so everyone was clear what church was being referred to.

So, it made perfect sense for the Church of England to refer to the Catholic Church as the “Roman” church. It also made sense of German Lutherans to call the Catholic Church the “Roman” church. It was not an invention or a slur so much as a continuation of long standing practice of using geographical markers for the names of various churches all claiming catholicity.
 
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Definitely agree with not applying today’s standards to past actions.

Or bringing back the capital punishments of yore.

Too, commentary of past actions is not a judgment of souls. Which I couldn’t do if I wanted to and I don’t. But I can and should discern actions and by that I mean what is good and what is evil.

Please remember, the Church is about God first, last, and always, which includes HIS instructions known as commandments and the Sacraments He instituted - which are blueprinted in the Bible - to better guide us to Him…AND spread the Gospel of this good news to all nations.

It ALSO was authorized to forgive or retain sin. (John 20:23) And its decisions declared on earth, are honored in Heaven. (Matthew 16:19; Matthew 18:18)

We are FREE to believe this or not. God won’t bully us into remaining in or joining the Catholic Church. But if we do, we are promising HIM that we will be the best Christians we can be, and with the help of His grace remain in Him and His Kingdom, forever.
 
MarkRome said:
Roman Catholic refers to the Roman (Latin) Rite of the Church. There are many Catholics who aren’t Roman Catholic because they are part of other Rites- Maronite, Armenian, Syrian, etc.
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The Eastern rites were not always in communion with Rome. So, applying this as an objection to early Protestant use of “Roman Catholic” is a bit of an anachronism. In the past, the Latin rite was virtually the only rite in the Catholic Church.
 
Right. There is only a few churches (and maybe not even recognized as Christian) who claim the See of Rome went into apostasy. The Mormon Church comes to mind.

Rather, I think Protestants simply dont see Peter as being a supreme Apostle, and/or leaving succession of an office which maintained valid Communion or orthodox affirmation of doctrine.

The Orthodox Church having valid Apostolic Communion, although in a wounded state (from the See of Rome) aside.

The Reformation marked a justified break from certain doctrines (not from an apostasy of Rome altogether).
 
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When Christianity was declared no longer illegal?

When the Holy Spirit conveyed the canon of the Bible to the men of His Church? Since the Church kept its contents protected before and since…

I’m not a scholar nor am I aware of why the Holy Spirit’s decisions are second guessed so you’re going to have to elaborate what the problem is, as I wasn’t raised Protestant therefore am fine with whatever God declares and proclaims officially, through the Church He authorized to speak on His behalf. This includes His Bible, creeds, catechism, hierarchy, traditions, etc.

Thanks! and

God bless
 
As I’ve already stated, Roman Catholic is not now, nor has ever been, the official name of the universal Catholic Church. Over the centuries the phrase “Roman Catholic” was required to be used in some ecumenical documents, as you’ve pointed out.
 
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Ammi said:
Right. There is only a few churches (and maybe not even recognized as Christian) who claim the See of Rome went into apostasy. The Mormon Church comes to mind
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I won’t speak for them, but that is my understanding.
Ammi said:
Rather, I think Protestants simply dont see Peter as being a supreme Apostle, and/or leaving succession of an office which maintained valid Communion or orthodox affirmation of doctrine.
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Certainly not supreme , but I wouldn’t argue that he was in many was the leader of them.
On the point of succession, it depends on the tradition/denomination.
Ammi said:
The Reformation marked a justified break from certain doctrines (not from an apostasy of Rome altogether).
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While the sad break has blame to go around, I generally agree
 
Not an anachronism. I am explaining one official way the Catholic Church currently uses the phrase Roman Catholic. I am curious, though, are someone who thinks the “Roman Catholic Church” was started by emperor Constantine in the early 4th century?
 
sainteriksrose said:
When Christianity was declared no longer illegal?
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Yes, the irony of finally being free from civil persecution to then using same for church conformity. I would have to get you source but apparently was said the Nicene council decrees were “enforceable” by civil authorities…if not the next council, when Christianity was not just “legal”, but the authorized state religion so to speak.
 
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Thank you…

No offense intended, but whatever mistakes might have happened back then or even today, won’t change my mind about the validity of the Church’s authority as given to it by Christ.

His teachings will remain intact because He said hell will not prevail, and He is with us always. And I believe Him because God does not lie. (Matthew 16, 28)
 
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