Protestant opinion on where Roman Catholic Church went into apostasy?

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Ammi said:
The Reformation marked a justified break from certain doctrines (not from an apostasy of Rome altogether).
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JonNC said:
While the sad break has blame to go around, I generally agree
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Just so you know, and with respect, I dont see the break of Eucharist as justified. Certain practices and abuses definitely deserved admonishment. I think every age has those (some worse [higher up the rank] than others).

My comment was trying to represent the “protestant” perspective.
 
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sainteriksrose said:
Thank you…

No offense intended, but whatever mistakes might have happened back then or even today, won’t change my mind about the validity of the Church’s authority as given to it by Christ.

His teachings will remain intact because He said hell will not prevail, and He is with us always. And I believe Him because God does not lie. (Matthew 16, 28)
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I think a common misunderstanding with some Catholics, is that authority equals correct decisions or correct application of correct Teachings.

Abuses can and do happen, even by the most authorized people.
 
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ltwin said:
In the past, the Latin rite was virtually the only rite in the Catholic Church.
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Maronites were always Catholic. But yes, were minority mostly. Some byzantines in Italy never left either.
 
Ammi said:
My comment was trying to represent the “protestant” perspective.
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There is no such thing as a “Protestant “ perspective.
Ammi said:
Just so you know, and with respect, I dont see the break of Eucharist as justified.
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I’ve been receiving the Eucharist since I was 15 . It is sad, though, that we cannot share the same altar to receive His true body and blood.
 
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JonNC said:
There is no such thing as a “Protestant “ perspective.
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That’s why I put it in parentheses. But some things are pretty general to Protestants. The Reformation being one.
I’ve been receiving the Eucharist since I was 15. It is sad, though, that we cannot share the same altar to receive His true body and blood.
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We can.
 
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Well, I dont want to argue definitions and what all the various groups believe. Obviously they vary, and I cant speak for them all. But there is a common theme, and division. The authority of and Communion with the See of Rome.

That being said, even Rome is not immune to abuses, or neglecting its duty to formally affirm or admonish what is brought to its attention.
 
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JonNC said:
Not according to Catholic and orthodox Lutheran teachings.
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You are always able to receive Communion from the table of the Catholic Church. If you wish to receive Confirmation.
 
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Ammi said:
Well, I dont want to argue definitions and what all the various groups believe. Obviously they vary, and I cant speak for them all. But there is a common theme, and division. The authority of and Communion with the See of Rome.
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That would include Eastern Orthodox and PNCC, but you’re right, not worth arguing over.
Ammi said:
That being said, even Rome is not immune to abuses, or neglecting its duty to formally affirm or admonish what is brought to its attention.
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Not Rome alone. That applies to all of us.
Ammi said:
You are always able to receive Communion from the table of the Catholic Church. If you wish to receive Confirmation.
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The reverse is true, too. Either way, it doesn’t solve the broader issue.
 
sainteriksrose said:
No offense intended, but whatever mistakes might have happened back then or even today, won’t change my mind about the validity of the Church’s authority as given to it by Christ.

His teachings will remain intact because He said hell will not prevail, and He is with us always. And I believe Him because God does not lie. (Matthew 16, 28)
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Ok…feel same way about reformed churches and their mistakes (such as you pointed out and any others). Still believe in the validity of their reforms and that they came from God. And that they are part of the means of “prevailing” and God keeping His promises to guide into all truth.
 
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MarkRome said:
Roman Catholic refers to the Roman (Latin) Rite of the Church. There are many Catholics who aren’t Roman Catholic because they are part of other Rites- Maronite, Armenian, Syrian, etc.
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Not quite following you here. The original Church was polycentric (Rome, Antioch, Alexandria, et al) yet all were united in faith and essential doctrine. It was comprised of both East and West. Gradually East and West grew apart, with the papal primacy of Rome becoming more clearly defined, but still united, until the schism of 1054. Rome says the Orthodox schismed from her, the Orthodox say Rome schismed from them. Whichever side you take, for the first thousand years, before the schism, “the Catholic Church” consisted of both eastern and western rites, including the Latin Rite.
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The TEACHINGS of Christ are spot as taught by His Church.

Because the authority of the Church He founded in 33 AD, was given to it by God, Who said He’d be with us always.

Does that mean its members are perfect? No, but we are encouraged to try to be! (Matthew 5:48)

Too we must remember that Jesus said there will be tares among the wheat. And one of our responsibilities as Christians is to pray for everyone, because people can change, and in this way there will be more sheep than goats at the end of time, which will make our Father happy!
 
What were/are its fruits?

Some disciples of Christ’s who walked with Him on this earth walked away from Him because of His teachings. (John 6:66)

And what were those teachings? That He is the Bread of Life, and unless we eat His Flesh and drink His Blood, we have no life in us.

So then if a person believes that Jesus is God, why would they not believe EVERYTHING He says?
 
Without looking it up, aren’t we instructed to be likeminded?

And, once we KNOW the Truth, God DOES let us decide for ourselves. So we will find there are Catholics who are deliberately disobedient to His teachings and are ergo lukewarm Christians.

I dunno. God is the One Who knows the hair count of every head, and when a sparrow falls to the ground, so…

We have to keep praying that those whose souls are in jeopardy, wake up and stay awake! (Matthew 25:1-13)
 
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You are referring to the East/West schism and the Eastern Orthodox Churches which are not Catholic, not in communion with the Pope, but are still considered “Churches” with valid Sacraments.

I am referring to the 23 Easter Rite Catholic Churches which are in full communion with the Pope. They are not considered “Roman Catholic” as that (primarily) refers just to the Latin Rite Churches.

 
sainteriksrose said:
Some disciples of Christ’s who walked with Him on this earth walked away from Him because of His teachings. (John 6:66)
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John 6 says these disciples did not believe from the beginning like in John 2. It is not like they believed everything but the eating. They didn’t believe period, even before John 6.

“But Jesus did not commit himself unto them (“believers”), because he knew all men,”
John 2:24 KJV


“But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.”
John 6:64 KJV

 
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sainteriksrose said:
The TEACHINGS of Christ are spot as taught by His Church.
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Yep. But even Bishops and Cardinals have trouble distinguishing between Apostolic Teachings and innovations (disputing among themselves).
Because the authority of the Church He founded in 33 AD, was given to it by God, Who said He’d be with us always.
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Yep. But having authority doesnt always mean doing the right thing.

Does that mean its members are perfect? No, but we are encouraged to try to be! (Matthew 5:48)
And one of our responsibilities as Christians is to pray for everyone, because people can change, and in this way there will be more sheep than goats at the end of time, which will make our Father happy!
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We dont know how many will be saved and how many will not. I believe Jesus warned that many will not.
 
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sainteriksrose said:
We have to keep praying that those whose souls are in jeopardy, wake up and stay awake! (Matthew 25:1-13)
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Indeed, we have to have our own “oil”, a personal filling.( of the Spirit)…can’t be somebody else’s…we must know Him personally and declare Him as such (Savior), and He will declare us as His when we come knocking at the door of the “wedding”.

It can’t be about knowing Him a little bit, thru others, like His biography. That is like those with a little oil in their lamps, that we are given thru tradition and religion from a youth.

We must have a personal full encounter with the saving Lord, getting our own oil, drawing from the well we have been led too by others and by the Holy Spirit. Being born of the Spirit.

We can not be like Nicodemus who had some ancestral, religious oil, some light, being a leader of God’s people, yet not born again, not born of Spirit. He saw Jesus only biographically (as a great teacher from God). He had not wrested his salvation ( thought he was already saved with his little oil) fully on Jesus and gotten His fill dose of oil.

“Behold, I stand at the gate, and knock. If any man shall hear my voice, and open to me the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.” Rev 3:20
 
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