Protestant Persecution of Catholics

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Sadly many Protestants have brought up the sins of Catholics persecuting them, but when they are told of the Protestants who killed Catholics they many times don’t believe it at first. The history many have been told is one sided. We need to know and understand where some of the issues we are dealing with between our different communities come from.

Secondary to this is that many books and websites that attack the Church use the actions of individual or groups of Catholics, (not usually sanctioned by the Church) as a reason to reject the Church, while omitting the crimes of equal number and cruelty either though their own ignorance of the past, or willful omission. If such behavior by Cathoics is a valid reason for them to reject the Catholic Church, would it not be the same for rejecting their groups too?

Man lives with the stain of original sin, The Church was founded by Jesus so we could have access to the Graces we need to restore our lives and souls to what God originally intended for us.

I’ll quote an Anglican Bishop who said, “The Church is a hospital for sinners, not a hotel for Saints.” I agree with him to a point, but as a Catholic I’d say, “The Church Militant and Suffering is a hospital for sinners, so we can check into that part of it which is a hotel for Saints.”
 
SecretaryMonday said:
When you say “persecution”, I think that you mean “speaking against”. I believe that the thread starter is using the word “persecution” to mean things like imprisonment, torture, exile, and death.
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Yikes, yes, I did definitely mean “speaking against,” not persecution. Thank you. :o
 
I have never heard of a catholic methodist? Would you please let us know what you mean by that?? Thank you.
 
JonNC said:
I believe Catholics were welcome in Pa under William Penn

Jon
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That is true
As a former New Englander I was always confused why the French colonist never supported the US rebellion.
Actually the British granted zQuebecers freedom of worship.
Where it was against the law to be Catholic in New Enhlsnd.
In fact Congregationalism was the state religion in in Conn until 1802
The US constitution prohibits a national religion not state rrligions
I think the last state was as late as. 1850
 
SecretaryMonday said:
When you say “persecution”, I think that you mean “speaking against”. I believe that the thread starter is using the word “persecution” to mean things like imprisonment, torture, exile, and death. Catholics, especially priests, were tortured to death with unimaginable cruelty. Margaret Clithrow, early American, was crushed with stones because she would not attend Protestant services.

The Catholic Encyclopedia is one source of information (www.newadvent.org) . For example, under the heading “Maryland,” it mentions that in some of the early laws in America, if a Protestant widow remarried a Catholic man, the state could take away her children and put them in another Protestant family. Catholics were taxed at a higher rate. England had a “no return policy” for priests who had left their country, and sometimes priests in the American colonies were kidnapped and returned to England to face death.

It has been a while since I read Foxe’s. I thought that mainly mentioned Protestant martyrs and was more or less silent on Catholic ones? At one time I looked up the Queens Mary and Elizabeth: there were lots of results under Mary (a Catholic), and I didn’t see any under Elizabeth (she declared England a Protestant nation). I’m not a history buff, but other sources record a much bloodier Elizabethan era.
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No, I mean the slaughter and killing of Catholics during the Reformation. I need LINKS! Not books. I have a forum that Protestants are using against us and I need some help. They rave against us about the Huguenots… Tell me something I don’t already know? 🤷
 
brandonjennings said:
Why is it so important to point out the bloodshed protestants did to catholics and ignore the other
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While I agree that bringing up past wrongs does nothing to evangelize or defend a faith, bringing up past wrongs (or perceived wrongs) has been a popular tactic by Protestant/Reformed and Secularist opponents of the Catholic Church.

These opponents are quick to bring up how horrible the Catholic Inquisitions were, or how the Crusades were massacres of innocents intended to gain power, or how every priest is a pedophile. It is helpful, in these situations, to bring up that past wrongs have no bearing on the teaching authority of the Church, and that if they do apply this standard, then they would have to apply it to Protestants (witch hunts, executions of Catholics, anti-Semitism), schools (sex abuse occurs frequently), secular atheistic organizations (communist Russia’s and China’s massacres of millions of people for the good of the state).

More plainly, in this case, when a Protestant claims the Catholic Church is wrong because of the past injustices or perceived injustices, it is sometimes good to point out that Protestant communities have committed injustices, and yet this does not negate the authority of the Bible they use.
 
CarolNoel said:
I have never heard of a catholic methodist? Would you please let us know what you mean by that?? Thank you.
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My mother was Catholic and my father was Methodist. They fell in love, but neither wanted the other to have to leave the denomination they came from and each wanted to know more about the other’s denomination. They each “converted” to each other’s denomination (for instance, my father had his first communion, and my mother joined the methodist church) without leaving their original church. For my entire life (I’m sixteen), my family has gone to saturday night vigil mass at the catholic church and sunday morning service at the methodist church. Even after my father died a year ago, we had two funerals (most people don’t do this for practical reasons, but my dad wanted it), and i witnessed a very interesting (and respectful) conversation between my parish preist and my methodist minister.

I’ve thought about my faith, prayed about my faith, and searched scriptures about my faith quite a lot. I think that if you believe in Jesus Christ and try to love Him to the best of your ability, you will be saved. There is no “one size perfectly fits all” denomination- everyone worships God a little differently.
 
sleepysheep25 said:
My mother was Catholic and my father was Methodist. They fell in love, but neither wanted the other to have to leave the denomination they came from and each wanted to know more about the other’s denomination. They each “converted” to each other’s denomination (for instance, my father had his first communion, and my mother joined the methodist church) without leaving their original church. For my entire life (I’m sixteen), my family has gone to saturday night vigil mass at the catholic church and sunday morning service at the methodist church. Even after my father died a year ago, we had two funerals (most people don’t do this for practical reasons, but my dad wanted it), and i witnessed a very interesting (and respectful) conversation between my parish preist and my methodist minister.

I’ve thought about my faith, prayed about my faith, and searched scriptures about my faith quite a lot. I think that if you believe in Jesus Christ and try to love Him to the best of your ability, you will be saved. There is no “one size perfectly fits all” denomination- everyone worships God a little differently.
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It is a beautiful story …Sleepy… 🙂
 
brandonjennings said:
Remember Catholics also had their fair share of murdering protestants
your not being oppressed right now
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The core of Catholic teachings is to love God and neighbor, as Jesus taught. Your neighbor includes everyone on earth. Therefore, there are no Catholic teachings that authorize any Catholic to sin as sin is in opposition to love. That is why we Catholics are taught from grade school of the necessity of obeying the commandments, as Jesus also taught (if you love me keep my commandments). So when a Catholic sins against the great commandment to love by persecuting another solely because he is a non-Catholic or for any other thoughtless reason he is sinning on his own authority and NOT on the Catholic Church’s authority as the Church has no teaching authorizing anyone to persecute another for any reason, including dislike of the other’s religion. When a Catholic does not love and sins against another he is acting in spite of the Catholic Church’s teachings, not because of them, and therefore will have to answer to Jesus, the just judge, for his sinful acts.
This is a BIG difference when compared to the Catholic Church protesters starting with Rev. Martin Luther, OSB, who left the Catholic priesthood and Church to start his own man-made religion. He rejected the Gospel as handed down from Jesus to the Apostles including the requirement to obey the commandments. He referred to them as “…Moses and his stupid commandments.” He also said to “…sin and sin boldly”. Since sin is the opposite of love it leads to death and misery which is what Martin Luther, Calvin, Henry VIII etc did when they persecuted Catholics simply because they would not reject their faith for a man-made religion.
So when Protestants persecuted Catholics it was because of their new, man-made religion which explicitly taught it was not necessary to love one another and that sin was ok, so long as you “accepted” Jesus as your lord and savior even though this acceptance excluded the requirement to obey the commandments. That is why Henry VIII and his new Church of England was specifically responsible for all the Catholics he tortured and murdered simply because they did not convert to his new man-made church. And when Protestant leaders and their complicit political leaders stole and plundered Catholic churches, monasteries, etc. due to their love of money, which Jesus also taught against, it was due to the teaching and action of the Protestant religion and its leaders. BIG, BIG difference.
 
JOE_OBERR said:
The core of Catholic teachings is to love God and neighbor, as Jesus taught. Your neighbor includes everyone on earth. Therefore, there are no Catholic teachings that authorize any Catholic to sin as sin is in opposition to love. That is why we Catholics are taught from grade school of the necessity of obeying the commandments, as Jesus also taught (if you love me keep my commandments). So when a Catholic sins against the great commandment to love by persecuting another solely because he is a non-Catholic or for any other thoughtless reason he is sinning on his own authority and NOT on the Catholic Church’s authority as the Church has no teaching authorizing anyone to persecute another for any reason, including dislike of the other’s religion. When a Catholic does not love and sins against another he is acting in spite of the Catholic Church’s teachings, not because of them, and therefore will have to answer to Jesus, the just judge, for his sinful acts.
This is a BIG difference when compared to the Catholic Church protesters starting with Rev. Martin Luther, OSB, who left the Catholic priesthood and Church to start his own man-made religion. He rejected the Gospel as handed down from Jesus to the Apostles including the requirement to obey the commandments. He referred to them as “…Moses and his stupid commandments.” He also said to “…sin and sin boldly”. Since sin is the opposite of love it leads to death and misery which is what Martin Luther, Calvin, Henry VIII etc did when they persecuted Catholics simply because they would not reject their faith for a man-made religion.
So when Protestants persecuted Catholics it was because of their new, man-made religion which explicitly taught it was not necessary to love one another and that sin was ok, so long as you “accepted” Jesus as your lord and savior even though this acceptance excluded the requirement to obey the commandments. That is why Henry VIII and his new Church of England was specifically responsible for all the Catholics he tortured and murdered simply because they did not convert to his new man-made church. And when Protestant leaders and their complicit political leaders stole and plundered Catholic churches, monasteries, etc. due to their love of money, which Jesus also taught against, it was due to the teaching and action of the Protestant religion and its leaders. BIG, BIG difference.
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Sort of an odd thing to say
Martin Luther left because the catholic church were selling indulgences to get into heaven and yes when a pope or another catholic commits an massacre in church teaching the church is responsible, by your logic the protestants killings of Catholics were not protestants because they were not following Jesus.

Yea a really odd/perplexing thing to comment on
Probably should do some research and thinking before posting and please un capitalize catholic For you it is shouting at us
 
You have also been brainwashed into believing non catholics are all evil
 
I hope there’s a circle of hell reserved for the protestant and catholic warlords who depopulated germany in the 30 years war.
 
brandonjennings said:
Sort of an odd thing to say
Martin Luther left because the catholic church were selling indulgences to get into heaven and yes when a pope or another catholic commits an massacre in church teaching the church is responsible, by your logic the protestants killings of Catholics were not protestants because they were not following Jesus.

Yea a really odd/perplexing thing to comment on
Probably should do some research and thinking before posting and please un capitalize catholic For you it is shouting at us
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Unless it was part of the specific Protestant sect’s teaching that Catholics must be executed, then no, the blame can’t be placed on the theological school from which the offender came from. For instance, if Calvin had Catholics put to death, this says nothing about his theology or authority. It in no way disproves it or proves it.

An analogy: there are two schools that train math teachers. One school teaches a skewed view of mathematics, one teaches proper mathematics. Some of the students from both schools end up being abhorrent, wicked people when they get out of school. The fact that some students from both schools turned out to be bad people says absolutely nothing about the math they taught. The school and the students that teach true math can still disprove the school and students that teach math incorrectly, based purely on their teachings, regardless of how some of the students behave.

Fortunately, just as the school that teaches proper math, we Catholics also do not rely on individual actions of followers to disprove someone’s authority to teach: history, tradition, and our own theology espoused by the Holy Spirit through the magisterium do this. Faith and reason win in the end.
 
brandonjennings said:
Sort of an odd thing to say
Martin Luther left because the catholic church were selling indulgences to get into heaven and yes when a pope or another catholic commits an massacre in church teaching the church is responsible, by your logic the protestants killings of Catholics were not protestants because they were not following Jesus.

Yea a really odd/perplexing thing to comment on
Probably should do some research and thinking before posting and please un capitalize catholic For you it is shouting at us
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Capitalizing Catholic Church is normative; this is the first I’ve heard that it is offensive all caps screaming.
The CC did not, is not and will not ever “sell” indulgences as there is no CC teaching, practice or tradition allowing it as indulgence requires prayer and prayer cannot be sold. Some Catholics who disobeyed Church teachings and were money hungry attempted to basically steal from others under the purview of a legitimate Church practice of the time. When the Popes would discover some evil clerics or princes were accepting money illicitly the Popes would attempt to stop the abuse and the pope around 1570 or so ended any monetary connection with indulgences and public works projects such as hospitals, bridges, churches etc.

If a pope were to commit massacre he is acting on his own as I repeat there is no CC teaching authorizing a Catholic to sin, in this case the massacre of any group or society. And there never will be because mass murder is opposed to Jesus’ great commandment to love our neighbor. A pope that commits murder is personally responsible and he will have to answer for it in this life (possibly) and, unless he repents of this grave sin, for sure when he meets Jesus his just judge. This of course applies to anyone who commits murder or massacre.

The Protestants, especially their leaders such as Henry VIII who murdered hundreds if not thousands of Catholics for the simple reason of being Catholic and not converting to their particular brand of Christianity were definitely not following the teachings of Jesus to love their (non-Protestant) neighbor. To murder by torture due to differences in faith is not an act of charity, quite the opposite, needless to say.

They wouldn’t even spare women. In England Margaret Ward was condemned to die for assisting a priest to escape from Bridewell. She was offered her liberty if she would go to the Protestant church, and on refusing these terms, was hanged. A Mrs. Line was tried for her life before Chief-Justice Popham for entertaining a priest in her house, and was flogged and then hanged. A Mrs. Wells, for the same cause, received sentence of death, but died in prison. In 1586 Mrs. Margaret Margaret Clitherow, age 30 with young children, was found guilty of harboring priests and was pressed to death by 900 lbs of weight. Priests had to hide their identity as the Protestant leaders of England would persecute them if discovered.

A Protestant that murdered Catholics was indeed a Protestant - Anabaptist, Lutheran or whatever denomination he was a member of. Again, the foundation of modern day Protestantism, the man-made church started by the Rev Martin Luther, is rejection of the teachings (of love) of the CC which goes back to biblical times. Luther taught obedience to the commandments was unnecessary even though Jesus said “If you love me keep my commandments”. Luther said to sin and to sin boldly and murder is sinning boldly. Luther, in short, wanted to be his own pope.
Therefore, the Protestant religion and its various denominations are responsible for perpetrating all manner of sin and misery as its teachings allow for it and even encourage it as their leaders stated in the 1500’s. Of course when one no longer loves all is fair game and there are also numerous instances of Protestants killing each other for religious/political reasons just as Muslim sects today kill each other due to the “heresy” of the other sect.
 
brandonjennings said:
You have also been brainwashed into believing non catholics are all evil
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Where did I say or even imply that all non-Catholics are evil?

What I am saying is that Protestantism rejected the the vast bulk of the Gospel Jesus taught the Apostles which he then commissioned them to preach for our salvation (Mk 16:15-16). Since the bible does not claim to have this Gospel the Apostles learned from Jesus salvation can not come from the bible. Faith comes from hearing, as St Paul says, the oral word of God (1 Thes 2:13) not from reading or studying the bible, the written word of God, which is distinct from the oral word of God. Luther and the other Protestant leaders, with no authority from God whatsoever, rejected this Apostolic Tradition, and replaced it with their own interpretation of what they believed Christianity should be. Proof their movement was not of God was that none of them agreed with each other on doctrine and practice - even to this day as Protestants are in a continual division mode.

Luther hated the pope, called him an a _ _ , who was the head of the Catholic Church and ridiculed the ten commandments so it was not surprising that mayhem followed in his stead.
 
For an interesting look at the anti-Catholicism that was prevalent in the Jim Crow south during the early years of the 20th century, read Rising Road–A True Tale of Love, Race, and Religion in America. Although the incidents recounted are true, and thoroughly documented, it reads like a novel. A minister literally got away with the murder of a Catholic priest, and was assisted in the effort by a future supreme court justice.

Here’s a link about the English Reformation:
supremacyandsurvival.blogspot.com/p/supremacy-and-survival-reviews-and_02.html
 
Yes Catholic Leaders who have commited massacres and sins are catholic you guys are trying to make an excuse for your religion mistakes in the past. Yes they did abuse their power giving protestants a JUST reason to leave i am not excusing any murders or massacres they performed, its a sad and terrible thing that happened And yes they did sell indulgences to build a fancy dancy church in Rome and thats why martin luther left, thats just simple
history folks

God Bless you all
 
JOE_OBERR said:
Where did I say or even imply that all non-Catholics are evil?

What I am saying is that Protestantism rejected the the vast bulk of the Gospel Jesus taught the Apostles which he then commissioned them to preach for our salvation (Mk 16:15-16). Since the bible does not claim to have this Gospel the Apostles learned from Jesus salvation can not come from the bible. Faith comes from hearing, as St Paul says, the oral word of God (1 Thes 2:13) not from reading or studying the bible, the written word of God, which is distinct from the oral word of God. Luther and the other Protestant leaders, with no authority from God whatsoever, rejected this Apostolic Tradition, and replaced it with their own interpretation of what they believed Christianity should be. Proof their movement was not of God was that none of them agreed with each other on doctrine and practice - even to this day as Protestants are in a continual division mode.

Luther hated the pope, called him an a _ _ , who was the head of the Catholic Church and ridiculed the ten commandments so it was not surprising that mayhem followed in his stead.
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I think John 3:16 will prove that wrong in a heartbeat
 
JOE_OBERR said:
The core of Catholic teachings is to love God and neighbor, as Jesus taught. Your neighbor includes everyone on earth. Therefore, there are no Catholic teachings that authorize any Catholic to sin as sin is in opposition to love. That is why we Catholics are taught from grade school of the necessity of obeying the commandments, as Jesus also taught (if you love me keep my commandments). So when a Catholic sins against the great commandment to love by persecuting another solely because he is a non-Catholic or for any other thoughtless reason he is sinning on his own authority and NOT on the Catholic Church’s authority as the Church has no teaching authorizing anyone to persecute another for any reason, including dislike of the other’s religion. When a Catholic does not love and sins against another he is acting in spite of the Catholic Church’s teachings, not because of them, and therefore will have to answer to Jesus, the just judge, for his sinful acts.
This is a BIG difference when compared to the Catholic Church protesters starting with Rev. Martin Luther, OSB, who left the Catholic priesthood and Church to start his own man-made religion. He rejected the Gospel as handed down from Jesus to the Apostles including the requirement to obey the commandments. He referred to them as “…Moses and his stupid commandments.” He also said to “…sin and sin boldly”. Since sin is the opposite of love it leads to death and misery which is what Martin Luther, Calvin, Henry VIII etc did when they persecuted Catholics simply because they would not reject their faith for a man-made religion.
So when Protestants persecuted Catholics it was because of their new, man-made religion which explicitly taught it was not necessary to love one another and that sin was ok, so long as you “accepted” Jesus as your lord and savior even though this acceptance excluded the requirement to obey the commandments. That is why Henry VIII and his new Church of England was specifically responsible for all the Catholics he tortured and murdered simply because they did not convert to his new man-made church. And when Protestant leaders and their complicit political leaders stole and plundered Catholic churches, monasteries, etc. due to their love of money, which Jesus also taught against, it was due to the teaching and action of the Protestant religion and its leaders. BIG, BIG difference.
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Excellent Thesis! 👍
 
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