Protestant Persecution of Catholics

[leahleah]

The last 2 sources are hard to read. I need more.

I’m sorry that it’s difficult for you. You asked for links, I provided them. Articles about history can be dense. If you really want the information, you’ll have to deal with it.

 

[RyanBlack]

Excellent Thesis!

Not at all. It’s very biased and distorted. Rather than calling it an excellent thesis, I’d say it’s a pile of trash.

 

[JonNC]

The core of Catholic teachings is to love God and neighbor, as Jesus taught. Your neighbor includes everyone on earth. Therefore, there are no Catholic teachings that authorize any Catholic to sin as sin is in opposition to love. That is why we Catholics are taught from grade school of the necessity of obeying the commandments, as Jesus also taught (if you love me keep my commandments). So when a Catholic sins against the great commandment to love by persecuting another solely because he is a non-Catholic or for any other thoughtless reason he is sinning on his own authority and NOT on the Catholic Church’s authority as the Church has no teaching authorizing anyone to persecute another for any reason, including dislike of the other’s religion. When a Catholic does not love and sins against another he is acting in spite of the Catholic Church’s teachings, not because of them, and therefore will have to answer to Jesus, the just judge, for his sinful acts.
This is a BIG difference when compared to the Catholic Church protesters starting with Rev. Martin Luther, OSB, who left the Catholic priesthood and Church to start his own man-made religion.** He rejected the Gospel as handed down from Jesus to the Apostles including the requirement to obey the commandments. He referred to them as “…Moses and his stupid commandments.” He also said to “…sin and sin boldly”. **Since sin is the opposite of love it leads to death and misery which is what Martin Luther, Calvin, Henry VIII etc did when they persecuted Catholics simply because they would not reject their faith for a man-made religion.
So when Protestants persecuted Catholics it was because of their new, man-made religion which explicitly taught it was not necessary to love one another and that sin was ok, so long as you “accepted” Jesus as your lord and savior even though this acceptance excluded the requirement to obey the commandments. That is why Henry VIII and his new Church of England was specifically responsible for all the Catholics he tortured and murdered simply because they did not convert to his new man-made church. And when Protestant leaders and their complicit political leaders stole and plundered Catholic churches, monasteries, etc. due to their love of money, which Jesus also taught against, it was due to the teaching and action of the Protestant religion and its leaders. BIG, BIG difference.

Do you have the sources and contexts of the quotes of Luther I bolded?

Jon

 

[MaryT777]

Do you have the sources and contexts of the quotes of Luther I bolded?

Jon

I know Sin and Sin boldly used to be a T Shirt the Old Lutheran site.
I don’t recall the source on the T shirt.

 

[Goya]

Not at all. It’s very biased and distorted. Rather than calling it an excellent thesis, I’d say it’s a pile of trash.

Nonsense–it was actually incredibly accurate and insightful, for a message board post–especially the part about the money. The lure of the money–lucre; avarice–is the dirty little secret (elephant in the middle of the room) that protestants always want to pretend was just a fortunate by product of their glorious movement.

That’s just naive.

Seeing all that wealth go into the Church’s coffers, for the Church–and not being able to partake–is what drove the Reformation.

 

[MollyMac]

Protestant Persecutions of catholics following the Reformation is largely if not completely quiet and non existent on the internet google. Can anyone help me find links to sources where it shows specific instances of Persecution of Catholics at the hands of Protestants in those days following the Reformation? I know there are many, but again, the internet gives me nothing.

Why? What is the point? You can google how Muslims persecute Roman Catholics in the MidEast. You can google how extremist Hindus persecute Christians in general in India. You can google how LGBT’s persecute Protestant churches in their communities for standing up for REAL marriage. You can even google how “Christians” were persecuting abortion advocates at the March for Life in DC. You can google just about anything when it comes to Christians being persecuted or vice versa. You are going to get stories and news articles- some truth, some not. What’s the point? Man is sinful. Whether it is Catholics persecuting Protestants or otherwise or Protestants persecuting Catholics. Both do it in one way or another. That is undeniable. We are sinners who point fingers until the Saviour returns and makes us new. I am looking forward to that day.

 

[RyanBlack]

Nonsense–it was actually incredibly accurate and insightful, for a message board post–especially the part about the money. The lure of the money–lucre; avarice–is the dirty little secret (elephant in the middle of the room) that protestants always want to pretend was just a fortunate by product of their glorious movement.

That’s just naive.

Seeing all that wealth go into the Church’s coffers, for the Church–and not being able to partake–is what drove the Reformation.

While there are parts of the post that are correct, on the whole, it’s a pile of trash, just as a said, especially the slanderous and absurd accusations that Protestants reject love of neighbor and teach that it’s OK to sin. As a former Protestant, I know what an absolute pile of dung those accusations are.

 

[JonNC]

I know Sin and Sin boldly used to be a T Shirt the Old Lutheran site.
I don’t recall the source on the T shirt.

The source of the phrase is a (partial) letter written by Luther to Melanchthon. I don’t know about the T-shirt. The paragraph says"

“If you are a preacher of grace, then preach a true and not a fictitious grace; if grace is true, you must bear a true and not a fictitious sin. God does not save people who are only fictitious sinners. Be a sinner and sin boldly, but believe and rejoice in Christ even more boldly, for he is victorious over sin, death, and the world. As long as we are here [in this world] we have to sin. This life is not the dwelling place of righteousness, but, as Peter says, we look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells. It is enough that by the riches of God’s glory we have come to know the Lamb that takes away the sin of the world. No sin will separate us from the Lamb, even though we commit fornication and murder a thousand times a day. Do you think that the purchase price that was paid for the redemption of our sins by so great a Lamb is too small? Pray boldly—you too are a mighty sinner.

It is shallow and unthinking, ISTM, to consider what Luther says here as the license to sin. Quite the contrary. It is a recognition of our sinful nature, and need for a savior, a savior to saves us from our sin.
It is a recognition that, regardless of our faith (“I believe, help my unbelief”), and our good works (“For that which I work, I understand not. For I do not that good which I will; but the evil which I hate, that I do”), we are in need of a savior to whom we can turn in repentance and confession, knowing in His grace our sins are forgiven.
We go into the world, and try our best not to sin, but to try to do the good works He has prepared for us to do, knowing that we will sin, but that His grace is all the greater than our sin (If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. … If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive our sins, and cleanse us from all unrighteousness).

As for the Ten Commandments,

bookofconcord.org/smallcatechism.php#tencommandments

Jon

 

[JonNC]

While there are parts of the post that are correct, on the whole, it’s a pile of trash, just as a said, especially the slanderous and absurd accusations that Protestants reject love of neighbor and teach that it’s OK to sin. As a former Protestant, I know what an absolute pile of dung those accusations are.

Thank you, Ryan, sincerely. Regarding the Ten Commandments and Luther, his commentary from the Small Catechism on the Eighth:

The Eighth Commandment.

Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.

What does this mean?–Answer.

We should fear and love God that we may not deceitfully belie, betray, slander, or defame our neighbor, but defend him, [think and] speak well of him, and put the best construction on everything.

Jon

 

[MaryT777]

Jon,
Why is Old Lutheran-Center for Lutheran pride (you can google it)
selling Tshirts and beer glasses with sin boldly on them?
I have seen the Tshirt and you can buy them on the site; it looks like a genuine Lutheran site.
Mary.

 

[JonNC]

Jon,
Why is Old Lutheran-Center for Lutheran pride (you can google it)
selling Tshirts and beer glasses with sin boldly on them?
I have seen the Tshirt and you can buy them on the site; it looks like a genuine Lutheran site.
Mary.

Hi Mary.
I don’t know. I will say this, however, while there’s nothing wrong with beer steins,
Selling a t-shirt with that as a logo, without an explanation leads
to misunderstandings, as was shown here.

Jon

 

[MaryT777]

Hi Mary.
I don’t know. I will say this, however, while there’s nothing wrong with beer steins,
Selling a t-shirt with that as a logo, without an explanation leads
to misunderstandings, as was shown here.

Jon

Yes indeed; probably in response to the misunderstanding of Luther’s statement in his letter.
(Remembering to add Jon to my Christmas List with a beer stein from Old Lutheran site
LOL… Maybe I’ll get Ben something also! I’ll check it out LOL

 

[Saira_Mokhtari]

If you go to wikipaedia and scroll down to the resources list, you can find a lot of websites. The only problem I see is actually finding the right time and place, but it’s a start.

As to the reasoning behind this, I refer to the post with Churchill’s quote. Many repeated mistakes are done out of ignorance of the past or simply because people did not care about the past. If we are to live in better times without repeating mistakes, we must learn what mistakes were already made and what their concequences were.