Protestant? right

[1ke]

When people splinter off over clear differences in doctrine… are they essentially saying “NO!” to both God and the Church?

Yes, Christ tells us this in Luke 10:16. The Apostles, and their successors, have the authority of Christ and we are to receive them and listen to them… *“The one who hears to you hears to Me, and the one who rejects you rejects Me; and he who rejects Me rejects the One who sent Me.” *

In a smaller way, is that like when we say “no” to God when we sin?

Yes.

 

[teachccd]

I was speaking of the living, not those who have come before us, they have all received the particular judgment.

I re-read your quote in context. I stand corrected…

 

[Randy_Carson]

my main point is do catholic believe in Protestant’s ways of teaching and agree with it.

No, Catholics do not follow any Protestant doctrines, though Protestants follow many Catholic doctrines…they just won’t admit that they do.

Please consider:

Principle #1: Jesus founded one Church
Jesus founded one, and only one, Church – not a bunch of “churches”.

“And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.” (Mt.16:18)

Notice that Jesus did not say, “and on this rock I will build what I must call my loosely-affiliated network of non-denominational fellowships.” He said, “I will build my church.” Each word of that little phrase is packed with implication.

Principle #2: Jesus established a Church that has authority
People need to know truth in order to be set free from sin, to be saved and to reach heaven. Therefore, Jesus established a Church that can teach authoritatively regarding these truths.

“Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free." (John 8:32)

We must learn the truth in order to be freed. But what truth can do this?

“Jesus answered, ‘I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.’” (Jn 14:6)

Jesus alone is the truth that can free us from death to sin. Not just any truth will do.

Jesus answered, "You are right in saying I am a king. In fact, for this reason I was born, and for this I came into the world, to testify to the truth.” (John 18:37)

From this, we see that God the Father has sent Jesus into the world to testify to the truth. Where do Christians go to find the truth? Well, what is the pillar and foundation of the truth? Is it the Bible? No! It is the Church. Paul wrote:

Although I hope to come to you soon, I am writing you these instructions so that, f I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth. (1 Tim 3:15)

In order for the Church to fulfill its function as the pillar and foundation of the truth, the Church must have authority with which to speak to and teach those who are seeking truth. How can we be sure that the Church has this authority?

"If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector. I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.” (Matthew 18:15-18)

Jesus tells you to take your unresolved disputes to the Church as the last “court of appeal” for disciplinary matters. He does not tell you or your brother to consult the Bible to determine what should be done; the Church is the final arbiter. If anyone refuses to listen to the Church, there is no further appeal; he is to be thrown out. Why does the Church have this final say? Because Jesus has told the Apostles that “whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”

If the Church is to speak with any effectiveness at all to the world about the truth on matters of faith and morals (not astronomy, biology or economics, etc.), then it must be able to do so with authority.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

The Catholic Church has never taught that one is “saved” by baptism.

 

[maurin]

No, Catholics do not follow any Protestant doctrines, though Protestants follow many Catholic doctrines…they just won’t admit that they do.

Please consider:

Principle #1: Jesus founded one Church
Jesus founded one, and only one, Church – not a bunch of “churches”.

“And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.” (Mt.16:18)

Notice that Jesus did not say, “and on this rock I will build what I must call my loosely-affiliated network of non-denominational fellowships.” He said, “I will build my church.” Each word of that little phrase is packed with implication.

Principle #2: Jesus established a Church that has authority
People need to know truth in order to be set free from sin, to be saved and to reach heaven. Therefore, Jesus established a Church that can teach authoritatively regarding these truths.

“Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free." (John 8:32)

We must learn the truth in order to be freed. But what truth can do this?

“Jesus answered, ‘I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.’” (Jn 14:6)

Jesus alone is the truth that can free us from death to sin. Not just any truth will do.

Jesus answered, "You are right in saying I am a king. In fact, for this reason I was born, and for this I came into the world, to testify to the truth.” (John 18:37)

From this, we see that God the Father has sent Jesus into the world to testify to the truth. Where do Christians go to find the truth? Well, what is the pillar and foundation of the truth? Is it the Bible? No! It is the Church. Paul wrote:

Although I hope to come to you soon, I am writing you these instructions so that, f I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth. (1 Tim 3:15)

In order for the Church to fulfill its function as the pillar and foundation of the truth, the Church must have authority with which to speak to and teach those who are seeking truth. How can we be sure that the Church has this authority?

"If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector. I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.” (Matthew 18:15-18)

Jesus tells you to take your unresolved disputes to the Church as the last “court of appeal” for disciplinary matters. He does not tell you or your brother to consult the Bible to determine what should be done; the Church is the final arbiter. If anyone refuses to listen to the Church, there is no further appeal; he is to be thrown out. Why does the Church have this final say? Because Jesus has told the Apostles that “whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”

If the Church is to speak with any effectiveness at all to the world about the truth on matters of faith and morals (not astronomy, biology or economics, etc.), then it must be able to do so with authority.

Totally worth a re-print and second read!!! Thanks for taking the time to post this.

 

[Philthy]

Hi guys.

Hi! :yup:
op:

we all know that if you believe in Jesus Christ you are a christian no matter u are a catholic or a baptist. u are called a catholic Christian or a baptist Christian for example.

Yes, your are right if you mean Christian in the sense that that is how you will be identified by other people here on earth. Beyond that, no one on this forum knows who God deems to be a Christian - it is as simple as that. We may all have reasons to believe what we believe in this regard, but no one knows.
op:

but some catholic friends of mine they believe that protestant will not enter heaven so do some priest that i have read of. they say that protestant are doing the wrong ways and we are not really a christian and they are very negative about the ways of some pentecostal protestant church which is the largest church in my country. because of the contemporary way of worshiping God.

No one knows how God will ultimately judge individuals. Only the Catholic Church has the guts and authority to declare people Saints who have definitively achieved eternal life. Accepting that authority requires faith, however.
op:
they are often criticizing in all ways.
aren’t follower suppose to be a big family.
my main point is do catholic believe in Protestant’s ways of teaching and agree with it.

Catholics agree as much (or more )with Protestants as Protestants agree with Catholics. Do you know what it means to “protest” something? If so you understand that the "protest"ants are defined by their opposition to the Catholic Church.
op:
I’m from a pentecostal church in the smallest country in the world

The entire Church is “pentecostal” since that is when the Church came into existence- on Pentecost. You are a member of one of the many “Pentecostal” churches which are relatively new and came into being within the last 200 years

 

[hoosierdaddy]

Yes I am. And get this. Shhh…quiet now…drumroll please…

I am a Christian too. Scripture says that all who call upon the Lord shall be saved. Guess what? I called Him. He answered. He died for me. And I live. Forever.

 

[mercygate]

rciadan;1812077:

Hi, Im sure you are correct but I have had some catholics on this forum tell me otherwise.

Yeah: Quoting I Peter 3:21: Baptism, which corresponds to this [Noah’s ark], now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

So Baptism, in the ordinary course of Christian life is an instrument of salvation. Not the whole picture of salvation by any means but nevertheless effective and necessary.

 

[mercygate]

Yes I am. And get this. Shhh…quiet now…drumroll please…

I am a Christian too. Scripture says that all who call upon the Lord shall be saved. Guess what? I called Him. He answered. He died for me. And I live. Forever.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Yes I am. And get this. Shhh…quiet now…drumroll please…

I am a Christian too. Scripture says that all who call upon the Lord shall be saved. Guess what? I called Him. He answered. He died for me. And I live. Forever.

Hi,

ME TOO :dancing:

 

[hoosierdaddy]

Hi AllforHim, right on.

 

[MrS]

Yes I am. And get this. Shhh…quiet now…drumroll please…

I am a Christian too. Scripture says that all who call upon the Lord shall be saved. Guess what? I called Him. He answered. He died for me. And I live. Forever.

gee… I thought scriptures also said… “…NOT everyone who says Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven…”

.

 

[hoosierdaddy]

gee… I thought scriptures also said… “…NOT everyone who says Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven…”.

Are you calling the LORD a liar? Come on man, you STILL don’t get the point of that passage? sigh Jesus (once again) was talking about “religious” people who really don’t have faith in Him. Also, don’t forget that EVERYBODY at the Judgement Seat of Christ will call Him Lord. “Every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord…”.

Now…was Jesus telling the truth? Or wasn’t He? My Bible says, “all who call upon the Name of the Lord shall be saved”.

 

[hoosierdaddy]

ALLFORHIM;1816275:

Yeah: Quoting I Peter 3:21: Baptism

, which corresponds to this [Noah’s ark], now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

So Baptism, in the ordinary course of Christian life is an instrument of salvation. Not the whole picture of salvation by any means but nevertheless effective and necessary.

Note the words “for a clear conscience”. Baptism is done to appeal to God for a clear conscience. In this way, and this way alone, baptism saves you. Without faith, baptism is nothing but getting wet.

 

[hoosierdaddy]

Only the Catholic Church has the guts and authority to declare people Saints who have definitively achieved eternal life.

Wrong Philthy! ALL Christians are “Saints”. ALL Christians RECEIVE eternal life. Eternal life is not “achieved”. Did you achieve your natural life? Neither do you achieve eternal life. It is a gift from God, not of works, lest any man should boast. And it seems that many of you think you’re going to boast.

By the way, I don’t duck from you or anybody. Just so you know.

 

[happygal]

A Christian becomes a Christian through the Sacrament of Baptism, therefore Protestants are indeed Christians, according to the Council of Trent that declared that the Baptisms done by the Protestants are indeed valid.

A Christian will lose Salvation if they commit Mortal Sin after Baptism. Unknowingly following heresy is not a mortal sin, particularly when you have been raised that way and taught it is the truth.

I got a question, so if a Christian commit Mortal Sin after baptism will lose Salvation, me as a Christian not a full flege one coz i have not go for my baptism, so meaning what i have no salvation now becoz i have no baptism!! Huh!!!

The only way back after commiting Mortal Sin is through the Sacrament of Confession unless however if you are sorry for the sin truly for the love of God, and not simply for the fear of going to hell and have no way of getting to or going to confession.

Now you, as Protestant, are you absolutely sure that every time you committed Mortal Sin, and you repented, that your repentance was based solely on love for God and having offended Him?

This must be the case, or else judgement will stand before you. For we are judge accordingly to what we have done, let alone if we still sinning against God despite having a non geniue repentance then how do we get closer to God then right!!

Ken

 

[mercygate]

mercygate;1819634:

Note the words “for a clear conscience”. Baptism is done to appeal to God for a clear conscience. In this way, and this way alone, baptism saves you. Without faith, baptism is nothing but getting wet.

Catholics would agree that even an infant cannot be baptised “without faith.” Indeed: “for a clear conscience.” Baptism wipes away all sin, both original and actual.

 

[mercygate]

Only the Catholic Church has the guts and authority to declare people Saints who have definitively achieved eternal life.

Wrong Philthy! ALL Christians are “Saints”. ALL Christians RECEIVE eternal life. Eternal life is not “achieved”. Did you achieve your natural life? Neither do you achieve eternal life. It is a gift from God, not of works, lest any man should boast. And it seems that many of you think you’re going to boast.

By the way, I don’t duck from you or anybody. Just so you know.

Relax, Hoosier. You’re having a language problem here. The difference between all of us “saints” and the “Saints” named by the Church is that: 1) The Saints have died. 2) The Saints have been identified, through a rigorous process of discernment, as having reached the goal. That’s all the previous poster meant by the word “achieved.”

 

[hoosierdaddy]

mercygate>>

Relax, Hoosier. You’re having a language problem here. The difference between all of us “saints” and the “Saints” named by the Church is that: 1) The Saints have died. 2) The Saints have been identified, through a rigorous process of discernment, as having reached the goal. That’s all the previous poster meant by the word “achieved.”

**It’s not a matter of relaxing though. The same way you guys call us out when you “think” we’re wrong about something is the same way I call someone out when they are wrong. We do not achieve eternal life and I called him out on it. The Gospel is that it is a free gift.

There is no rigorous process of discernment needed. All Christians are saints, alive and dead. The only reason I say “St. so and so” is so that people will know who I am talking about. Oh…and if the Saints have died why ask them to pray for us? (rhetorical question BTW, no need to answer)**

 

[mercygate]

mercygate>>It’s not a matter of relaxing though. The same way you guys call us out when you “think” we’re wrong about something is the same way I call someone out when they are wrong. We do not achieve eternal life and I called him out on it. The Gospel is that it is a free gift.

The word “achieve” does not necessarily mean “earn by your own merit.” It can mean simply “get where you need to be.” “He ran the race; he achieved the goal.”

**

There is no rigorous process of discernment needed. All Christians are saints, alive and dead. The only reason I say “St. so and so” is so that people will know who I am talking about. Oh…and if the Saints have died why ask them to pray for us? (rhetorical question BTW, no need to answer)

**All Christians are “saints” but we are also all sinners – at least that is what St. John tells me in his first Epistle.

The process of canonization simply identifies those whom the Church recognizes, through her teaching authority, to be definitively among those who have achieved (???) final blessedness. And the matter of the “deadness” of the Saints is not a rhetorical point at all, since the Saints now live in Christ, and as we read in the Gospels and in Revelation, our God is the God “of the living.”