Protestant "Saints" - Who would choose to "Canonize"

  • Thread starter Thread starter JRKH
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
She is not dead yet, but Heidi Baker for what she has done in Africa.

Also, what about the baptist missionary that started Christian roots in Myanmar/Burma back in the 1800s, he was jailed numerous times in that country. His legacy still exists there as there are churches named after him. Took him 6 years to convert a buddhist, from there he converted lots of people.
 
“Did you know the Bismarck was sank from within itself”

Perhaps you mean the Maine. There is very little doubt about what sank the Bismark, at 1039, 27 May 1941.

History is interesting. Back to the thread.

GKC
 
TO KGC,
Bismarck Was Scuttled!

The American film director, James Cameron, took an expedition on board a Russian Survey ship to the site of the sinking of the Bismarck. This survey ship is the largest of its kind and is equipped with two manned submersibles, Mir 1 & 2. These in turn were equipped with Remote Operated Vehicles (ROV’s) and were equipped with specially designed cameras and 8kw searchlights. Along with 2 survivors of the Bismarck, they arrived on site, to the day, 61 years later, that Bismarck sank. Just before dawn on the anniversary, the survivors were woken up to conduct their remembrance service for their dead comrades and then the dive began in earnest. On February 16th 2003; the resulting documentary was shown on Discovery TV. The first dive took 3 hours to reach the site, a journey which took Bismarck 10 minutes! The first piece of wreckage sighted was that of the Admiral’s Bridge which was as big as a 4 storey building! This was lying upside down on the ocean floor, having been sheered off by the pressure of water as Bismarck fell to her grave. Also sheered off was the entire stern section from the armoured bulkhead aft; about 50 metres of stern. Captain Lindermann and Admiral Lutjens were actually on the bridge proper during the ships last moments. When the Bismarck turned turtle, the 4 main gun turrets, held in place only by gravity, dropped out of their mountings and dropped straight to the bottom, landing with such an impact that the turrets disappeared into the silt, leaving the massive multi level below deck sections pointing to the surface. Bismarck hit, and hit hard, on the side of a volcanic slope, she landed bow first, buckled and then landed keel first. The resulting impact sent shock waves out causing an avalanche down the slopes taking Bismarck with it a distance of about 2/3rds of a mile. As she slid down the slope, she hit the already landed Admirals Bridge, sliding it to one side and turning it completely upside down. Finally, the Bismarck slewed around and came to rest.

Whilst the two Radio Room survivors watched topside on monitors, one of the ROV’s entered through a shell impact hole directly into the Radio Room where the desks etc where these men sat could clearly be seen. As the submersibles conducted their minute survey of the hull they found only about half a dozen penetrations through the actual armour plated sides of the ship. Most the the damage done to the Bismarck was to her superstructure. The Captain never lived to see his ship lose her fight for life. A direct hit from the Rodney (16" guns) on the main bridge, covered by 14 inches of armour, caused the door to be blasted from its hinges and the tremendous impact and concussion killed all inside instantly. At the same time the Admiral was killed.

Why did the Royal Navy fail to actually “Sink the Bismarck”? First we must go back to the encounter with HMS Prince of Wales and HMS Hood. When the Hood was hit by a direct hit on her magazines; the Prince of Wales was severely damaged and was preparing to withdraw. As she turned to withdraw, she fired one last salvo from her main guns. Two of these shells hit the Bismarck in the bow, but passed straight through the un-armoured section and into the sea beyond. However, the resulting entry hole and ripped out exit hole caused tons of sea water to eventually find its way onboard, thereby making the Bismarck sluggish and to lose some speed. As the Hood broke in two and began to sink, the aft turrets fired one last departing salvo before sinking into the abyss seconds later.

Next attack upon the Bismarck involved some extremely heroic pilots who flew old, slow, Fairey Swordfish torpedo launching, biplanes off Ark Royal. Under an intense anti aircraft barrage they pressed home their attacks in bad weather and in a hail of bullets. They had already been in the air a few hours enroute to the Bismarck. The Bismarck successfully evaded all the torpedoes but one torpedo caught the rudder and blew a hole in the steerage section. Film footage from James Cameron’s dives clearly show that the rudder not only jammed on the turn, but had actually embedded itself into the central of the three propellers. The result of this unrepairable damage was that the Bismarck was stuck in a wide circulating path, now unable to speed away from the closing pack of Royal Naval hunters. And close they did. Captain Lindemann announced to the crew that they were stuck and that “they could help themselves” to the stores. An attempt was made to launch one of her Arado seaplanes packed with Bismarck’s war diaries and papers; but they could not get the catapult to work and the pilot was not amongst the survivors. A request was made to Berlin for a U Boat to race to the scene to take off Bismarck’s papers. It was this U Boat, arriving hours later, that spooked the British ships into making a withdrawal thus condemning over a thousand men to their deaths, having only had time to rescue about 100. Here we must bear in mind that capital ships such as Rodney, King George V and the heavy cruisers were not equipped to go chasing U Boats. As the Royal Navy is an honourable Service, to leave sailors to die, must have been a very difficult call to make, but it was survive or be killed.

The well publicised triple torpedo hit from the Dorsetshire did not cause the ship to go down, as the torpedoes detonated against the outer shell, rupturing it but water tanks behind the area, cushioned the impact and the inner shell remained intact. Again, these were clearly seen on film in the documentary. Admiral Tovey, the British Commander, had ordered his capital ships in close to finish off Bismarck, as a consequence, the direct hits caused by these ships, did not have the impact required and did little damage to the main hull.

Nancy
 
I have always been “in love” with the Bismarck. She was an enemy ship which killed hundreds of my fellow countrymen but she was also a marvel of engineering and a beautiful ship to behold. The almost indisputable fact that she “committed suicide” rather than be killed lends more to her legend and majesty. May she rest in peace.

I received on 3rd March 2003, an email from a gentleman, Bill Garzke, an expert on the Bismarck and author of “Battleships, Axis & Neutral Battleships of World War 2” published by the Naval Institute Press. He is currently writing a book, which I shall read, on Bismarck. In this email he thanks me for reaching the conclusion that the Bismarck was scuttled. It was not exactly brain power on my behalf, I just took in what was said on the James Cameron documentary along with the video evidence. But he also goes on to say that bow damage caused on the Bismarck by the Prince of Wales is untrue. “I have been researching the Bismarck operation for 43 years and can tell you that hit came in her 9th salvo (I believe). The 6th salvo produced the hit on the boats and the 13th produced the hit near the bridge. This was a diving shell that had an underwater trajectory”. Thanks you Bill for your email. I am not an historian, just someone who has loved the Bismarck since a child and does research as a hobby. I do not think that there is anyone who agrees with everyone 100% on matters that sank so long ago. I also referred to eye witness reports from Bismarck survivors who do not necessarily have to be 100% right in their memories of what was a frightening, scary fight for survival in a flame riddled ship and icy seas.

Nancy
 
I have always been “in love” with the Bismarck. She was an enemy ship which killed hundreds of my fellow countrymen but she was also a marvel of engineering and a beautiful ship to behold. The almost indisputable fact that she “committed suicide” rather than be killed lends more to her legend and majesty. May she rest in peace.

I received on 3rd March 2003, an email from a gentleman, Bill Garzke, an expert on the Bismarck and author of “Battleships, Axis & Neutral Battleships of World War 2” published by the Naval Institute Press. He is currently writing a book, which I shall read, on Bismarck. In this email he thanks me for reaching the conclusion that the Bismarck was scuttled. It was not exactly brain power on my behalf, I just took in what was said on the James Cameron documentary along with the video evidence. But he also goes on to say that bow damage caused on the Bismarck by the Prince of Wales is untrue. “I have been researching the Bismarck operation for 43 years and can tell you that hit came in her 9th salvo (I believe). The 6th salvo produced the hit on the boats and the 13th produced the hit near the bridge. This was a diving shell that had an underwater trajectory”. Thanks you Bill for your email. I am not an historian, just someone who has loved the Bismarck since a child and does research as a hobby. I do not think that there is anyone who agrees with everyone 100% on matters that sank so long ago. I also referred to eye witness reports from Bismarck survivors who do not necessarily have to be 100% right in their memories of what was a frightening, scary fight for survival in a flame riddled ship and icy seas.

Nancy
It doesn’t belong in this thread, of even in this forum (or site?) but it’s an interesting topic.
Bismark has been one of my favorites, too, for over 50 years. Without looking too far, I find, in this room, Mullenheim-Reichberg’s book (which you will know) and Mearns and White’s HOOD AND BISMARK, published after a similar dive to Ballard’s conducted from the Akademik Keldysh., and about a year prior. Mearn’s and White’s conclusions:torpedoes (pp.176-177). I’m not expert enough to decide if Mearns or Cameron or McLaren is correct. But I’m holding for torpedoes. I’ll watch for your friend’s book.

And now, really back to the thread.

GKC
 
I too am a history Buff - WWII was my passion for many years.

Perhaps the two of you would be interested in this site.

Battleship VS Battleship

I haven’t been on it in some time but I remember teh folks there being really good.
A fun place to propose "What if "Scenerios.

Peace
James
 
It doesn’t belong in this thread, of even in this forum (or site?) but it’s an interesting topic.
Bismark has been one of my favorites, too, for over 50 years. Without looking too far, I find, in this room, Mullenheim-Reichberg’s book (which you will know) and Mearns and White’s HOOD AND BISMARK, published after a similar dive to Ballard’s conducted from the Akademik Keldysh., and about a year prior. Mearn’s and White’s conclusions:torpedoes (pp.176-177). I’m not expert enough to decide if Mearns or Cameron or McLaren is correct. But I’m holding for torpedoes. I’ll watch for your friend’s book.

And now, really back to the thread.

GKC
HAY! We should open a thread on the war and on the fabels and truths of it, what say you? Love of Christ Nancy Sorry James for the interuptions:)
 
I too am a history Buff - WWII was my passion for many years.

Perhaps the two of you would be interested in this site.

Battleship VS Battleship

I haven’t been on it in some time but I remember teh folks there being really good.
A fun place to propose "What if "Scenerios.

Peace
James
Did anyone ever tell you that you have the patients of JOB? You are very sweet, and kind, and smart. In fact I do like you! Nancy:D
 
I too am a history Buff - WWII was my passion for many years.

Perhaps the two of you would be interested in this site.

Battleship VS Battleship

I haven’t been on it in some time but I remember teh folks there being really good.
A fun place to propose "What if "Scenerios.

Peace
James
Thank you very much and apologies for stealing your thread. Though I started by being interested in the German navy (beginning with Bekker’s DEFEAT AT SEA, in the 6th grade), I mainly concentrate on the Pacific theater, now.

That’s a fascinating site and I’m a great fan of “what-if”, alternate history. I think I’ll spend some time there.

Again, thanks.

GKC
 
To a protestant the term saint applies to all those who are believers. There is really no differance between those who are considered great in the faith or least. When God sees His children He sees them equally because He sees them through Jesus and all that He is. We have a tendancy to look up to others because of the life they lived for the Lord. God sees Jesus and His work. All who have repented of their sins having recieved Jesus as saviour are born again and would be considered a saint.
Code:
      I understand that this is a differant way of thinking but this is what I gather from scripture. I have read some of the writings that are about what the catholic church calls saints and I am deeply moved by them especially the ones that are mystics,What strikes me the most when I read about them or their writings is their relationship with the Lord and their compleate abandonment of themselves to Him.

 In the protestant church there is one that has stood out to me for a long time. Her name is marth wing robinson. There is a book that can be found online  called radiant glory. If any are interested I can share a link to this sight. Just let me know.

 She lived in the late 1800s to 1936 .   She was led of the Lord to start what is called a faith home. Which influenced many in the revival that spread around the world in her day. There is not very much information about her except what is written in the book radiant glory. The faith homes are still in existance today. She always pointed to Jesus just Jesus. I know that the catholic church would consider her a mystic. Her life story and the things that she has said have had a great impact on my life as a christian.
 
To a protestant the term saint applies to all those who are believers. There is really no differance between those who are considered great in the faith or least. When God sees His children He sees them equally because He sees them through Jesus and all that He is. We have a tendancy to look up to others because of the life they lived for the Lord. God sees Jesus and His work. All who have repented of their sins having recieved Jesus as saviour are born again and would be considered a saint.
Thank you this is nicely put and totally agrees with the Catholic position. There are indeed only “Saints” in Heaven. Those who have been recognized by the Catholic Church are in a sense, persons who, like you say, we look up to.
I understand that this is a differant way of thinking but this is what I gather from scripture. I have read some of the writings that are about what the catholic church calls saints and I am deeply moved by them especially the ones that are mystics,What strikes me the most when I read about them or their writings is their relationship with the Lord and their compleate abandonment of themselves to Him.
If you like the mystics, may I recommend a book to you?
It is called, “The Fulfillment of All Desire”, by Ralph Martin. Subtitled, "A guidebook for the Journey to God Based on the Wisdom of the Saints. It quotes many Doctors of the Church extensively including Teresa of Avila, Therese of Liseaux, Catherine of Avila, Bernard, St John of the Cross, St Francis Desales.
I have found it to be a wonderful book.

In the protestant church there is one that has stood out to me for a long time. Her name is marth wing robinson. There is a book that can be found online called radiant glory. If any are interested I can share a link to this sight. Just let me know.
Code:
 She lived in the late 1800s to 1936 .   She was led of the Lord to start what is called a faith home. Which influenced many in the revival that spread around the world in her day. There is not very much information about her except what is written in the book radiant glory. The faith homes are still in existance today. She always pointed to Jesus just Jesus. I know that the catholic church would consider her a mystic. Her life story and the things that she has said have had a great impact on my life as a christian.
Thanks for sharing this name.
It is so interesting to learn of these other people that I have not heard of.

Peace
James
 
C.S. Lewis – For bringing so many people to Christianity through his writings.
 
To a protestant the term saint applies to all those who are believers. There is really no differance between those who are considered great in the faith or least. When God sees His children He sees them equally because He sees them through Jesus and all that He is. We have a tendancy to look up to others because of the life they lived for the Lord. God sees Jesus and His work. All who have repented of their sins having recieved Jesus as saviour are born again and would be considered a saint.
I converted to Catholicism in 2005 from a non-denominational background. I use to have a problem with Catholic’s usage of the word “Saint.” I also know that all true Christians are referred to as saints in Holy Scripture. I now have a better understanding of why the RCC deems certain ones as Saints. Not all who call themselves Christians live as one, The saints are recognized as living outstanding holy lives and are examples for us and their lives bring God to us also and a better understanding of the faith. It is much like how certain prophets and patriarchs are adored in Judaism.

I also believe that protestants have an assumption that they are saints and are assured of eternal life because they believe in Jesus, while Catholics hope that they will be found worthy of heaven by living a life of faith, sacraments and good works thereby truly being
a saint.

May we all live as close to God as we can by being obedient to Jesus.

Kathy
 
I converted to Catholicism in 2005 from a non-denominational background. I use to have a problem with Catholic’s usage of the word “Saint.” I also know that all true Christians are referred to as saints in Holy Scripture. I now have a better understanding of why the RCC deems certain ones as Saints. Not all who call themselves Christians live as one, The saints are recognized as living outstanding holy lives and are examples for us and their lives bring God to us also and a better understanding of the faith. It is much like how certain prophets and patriarchs are adored in Judaism.

I also believe that protestants have an assumption that they are saints and are assured of eternal life because they believe in Jesus, while Catholics hope that they will be found worthy of heaven by living a life of faith, sacraments and good works thereby truly being
a saint.

May we all live as close to God as we can by being obedient to Jesus.

Kathy
“I want that you have life and have it more aboundently”
 
Knowing the saints does not make anyone religous, nor does wearing medals or buying the Sunday paper like my mom thought.Being kind, and loving even your enemies, feeding the poor, visiting them in jail as I have alot, winning souls for Christ, clothing the naked, the biggest to me is love but I find people are not very easy to forgive and most all religions say they forgive but inside do not! I can prove this that what I say it truth. Love of Christ Nancy
 
Knowing the saints does not make anyone religous, nor does wearing medals or buying the Sunday paper like my mom thought.
The lives of the Saints (and other godly role models) provide have inspired many to grow in the love of God and Man. Just because one is not helped spiritual by such things does not mean that everyone is just like you in this regard. Different people find different sources of inspiration that help us along the journey.
Hebrews 12:1 Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us rid ourselves of every burden and sin that clings to us 2 and persevere in running the race that lies before us
2 while keeping our eyes fixed on Jesus, the leader and perfecter of faith. For the sake of the joy that lay before him he endured the cross, despising its shame, and has taken his seat at the right of the throne of God.
 
The lives of the Saints (and other godly role models) provide have inspired many to grow in the love of God and Man. Just because one is not helped spiritual by such things does not mean that everyone is just like you in this regard. Different people find different sources of inspiration that help us along the journey.
:DHI pnewton, Bless you to! That is why I read Foxes book of Martyers those people realy inspire me, and the new testement saints also, according to the word’s of God. love of Christ Nancy
 
:DHI pnewton, Bless you to! That is why I read Foxes book of Martyers those people realy inspire me,
Then perhaps you can understand that for Catholics there is a parallel in our list of Saints that you have found in your protestant martyrs. Indeed, many of them were put to death by Protestants for following their Lord.
 
Then perhaps you can understand that for Catholics there is a parallel in our list of Saints that you have found in your protestant martyrs. Indeed, many of them were put to death by Protestants for following their Lord.
And vice versa, you know I made a statement and it still goes about forgiveness:
Re: Protestant “Saints” - Who would choose to “Canonize”

Knowing the saints does not make anyone religous, nor does wearing medals or buying the Sunday paper like my mom thought.Being kind, and loving even your enemies, feeding the poor, visiting them in jail as I have alot, winning souls for Christ, clothing the naked, the biggest to me is love but I find people are not very easy to forgive and most all religions say they forgive but inside do not! I can prove this that what I say it truth. Love of Christ Nancy

John:3:16
You are Loved Nancy:D
 
.

So to recap:
Persons who are western, non-catholic, raised in their faith, or converted after the denomination was established (not original reformers) who have been dead for at least 25 years and are widely considered as good Christian men or women.

Well that’s where we’ll start.

Any (name removed by moderator)ut?

Peace
James

I**f by the term “Persons who are… non-catholic,” you are including those ,‘Church,’ people who are not in Communion with the Pope here is my contribution.

Archbishop Laud of Canterbury who was murdered by an Act of Attainder in an English Parliament controlled by Calvinists in 1646.

Also, James Stanley, 7th Earl of Derby, known as ,‘The Great Martyr’, who gave his life and his considerable fortune in defense of the Church in England. He was executed at Bolton, [The Geneva of The North,] in 1651 AD., after being captured by Calvinist Troops.**

All three of the gentlemen were members of that select group, both Roman and Anglican who fought the Calvinist enemy for the safety of the Catholic Religion from 1641/1660.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top