Protestant Songs at Mass

[PetraG]

If there’s nothing against Catholic teaching in the song, then the only problem with it would seem to be that you don’t like it.

No, that is not exactly right.

“…Not every form or style of music is capable of being rendered suitable for the Mass.
One often gets the impression that, as long as the written text of the music or song speaks about God, then it qualifies as “sacred music.” Given what has been articulated here, this is clearly not the case. As an example, the Gloria of the Mass set to a Polka beat or in the style of rock music is not sacred music. Why not? Because such styles of music, as delightful as they might be for the dance hall or a concert, do not possess all three of the intrinsic qualities of sanctity, artistic goodness (beauty) and universality proper to sacred music. While Catholics rightly expect genuine sacred music in all its forms to have spiritual and emotional impact, there is a necessary divide between that and what generally we call entertainment.”
Archbishop Alexander Sample, Pastoral Letter “Sing to the Lord a New Song”
The letter is about 20 pages long and a good piece of scholarship on what is and is not appropriate in liturgical music and music at Mass.

Some Protestant denominations have a musical aesthetic that is in keeping with what is appropriate for Catholic worship and some do not. Even some Catholic musicians write music that is anything but heretical and makes lovely devotional music but is nevertheless not appropriate for Mass.

I think we could agree that a similar distinction could be made between religious art that is appropriate for a child’s room or for the classroom of a Catholic school and the level of artistic merit that is appropriate for the sanctuary of a Catholic church. Art that might be charming in a classroom could still lack the aesthetic quality necessary to be appropriate in the church. The setting of the church could make the art seem banal or lacking in the level of beauty called for in a sanctuary.

Yes, I’m talking about excluding the musical equivalents of felt-and-glue banners from the Mass, unless perhaps the Mass is specifically aimed at a group that is mostly young children. That is not a condemnation of either polkas or felt-and-glue banners. It is just stating that they’re not universally appropriate artistic expressions.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

And here we go again with the discussion of a Christian song about God (not a secular song) not being “suitable” for the Mass when the pastor has obviously decided that it is indeed “suitable” for the Mass.

This is an extremely subjective topic, to the point where every post is pretty much just somebody’s opinion that they found a reference somewhere in Church history to support.

Everybody draws the “distinction” in a different place, and everybody who wants to draw a distinction is just absolutely sure that some awful harm will happen to the Church or the Mass if That Song is let in.

 

[Peeps]

There is such a thing as Catholic liturgical music. “Good good Father” ain’t it. It is devotional music, which is not fitting for the public liturgical worship that happens at a Mass.

What is the criteria for this determination?

 

[Tis_Bearself]

What is the criteria for this determination?

It’s whatever the person posting wants to say that it is.

As someone said above, the criteria being applied here would exclude a huge number of Marian hymns that are sung fairly regularly at Mass.

 

[Peeps]

Like I said, maybe I’m being too sensitive and uncharitable. I just can’t stand the thought of the True Church becoming more Protestant in its worship.

You do know that many of the great traditional hymns in the Gather Hymnal, as well as other Catholic hymnals, were written by Protestants?

 

[vsedriver]

artistic goodness (beauty)

this is so subjective.

I can’t imagine a more appropriate song for Lent then the Negro Spiritual “Were you there”?

I’m not sure what he means by ‘universality’ in this context. I’ve only ever had one time where I was involved in choosing the music for a Mass and that was for a funeral. My family chose:

entrance: Morning has Broken
Offertory: I am the bread of life
Communion: Ave Maria/I was there to here your borning cry (this is a Lutheran hymn),
when Father was swinging the brazier over the coffin the organist softly played “When Irish Eyes are Smiling”
procession: Battle Hymn of the Republic

The priest reviewed the lyrics of the Lutheran hymn and gave his permission for us to use it.

The Mass was absolutely beautiful, so much so that two families asked to learn more about becoming Catholic and several people also said how moving everything.

 

[JanetF]

I’m not seeing a problem especially in light of the gospel readings from last Sunday. He is a good father after all!

 

[Loud-living-dogma]

Oh Peeps. Have you and I not been over this before? Maybe not.
Here’s highlight from a good website:

Musica Sacra, therefore is that music which exists solely for use within the Church and Her Sacred Liturgies. All else is defined as secular, or removed from the temple, common, unimportant in a liturgical sense. It is possible to hear Sacred Music on the radio, drawing our minds and souls toward the otherworldly, but it is non-sensical to utilize secular music from the radio, for example, to draw our minds elsewhere while we are attending Holy Mass.
Why, you ask? Isn’t it a matter of opinion and personal taste? Who is the authority?

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

The Church and Her Magisterium have given us clear guidance, beyond the above definitions.

http://www.sfcatholic.org/worship/what-is-sacred-music/

 

[Loud-living-dogma]

Here’s another good resource, if anyone wants to take the time to read it.

https://www.sfcatholic.org/worship/wp-content/uploads/sites/17/2016/10/frequently-asked-questions-on-sacred-music.pdf

 

[Loud-living-dogma]

Peeps:

What is the criteria for this determination?

It’s whatever the person posting wants to say that it is.

As someone said above, the criteria being applied here would exclude a huge number of Marian hymns that are sung fairly regularly at Mass.

Really? You think the Church has not given guidance on what sacred liturgical music is? It’s just that it is not typically done in the average American parish.

 

[angel12]

. Like I said, maybe I’m being too sensitive and uncharitable.

I do think that anger so strong that it takes days to calm down seems like an overreaction. It’s just a song.

 

[po18guy]

Much music in the local parish is insipid, if not “un-Catholic.” Amazing Grace insinuates that grace arrives only once you believe. This denies the Sacraments, especially regarding children and baptism. Subtle, but who is the most subtle of all?

And the über-Catholic “We are the light of the world” strikes me as nothing more than boastful. Is it true? It is supposed to be, but should we sing it out proudly? We have enough trouble with lack of humility as it is.

Archbishop Sample of Portland, Oregon wrote a pastoral letter on sacred music. Though he may not be your Ordinary, the points and principles are universal. From the article:

"Pope Francis, too, has lamented ‘a certain mediocrity, superficiality and banality’ in liturgical celebrations that acts to the detriment of their “beauty and intensity.”

Liturgical music, as with almost everything in our culture, suffers from having been dumbed down.

 

[Dougbro1]

At mass last weekend, though, the music leaders (two women singing, one also playing guitar) sang the Chris Tomlin song “Good Good Father.”

this is ok as long as they don’t contradict Catholic teachings/doctrine.

You said it yourself. From my understanding, protestant megachurches also like Matt Maher’s song “Lord I Need You,” but obviously, Matt Maher is a Catholic. Just because certain songs, old and new, are popular among Protestants, doesn’t mean it’s bad to include in the liturgy. By the Catechism’s guidelines, music in the liturgy should promote prayer. From my experience, “Good Good Father” has definitely fulfilled that. Don’t worry too much about it. Some Catholics prefer traditional music, I understand, but others believe a mix of old and new might be a good thing for the mass. There was a time when the traditional hymns were contemporary (okay, a long time ago, but still).

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Hymns are meant to add an emotional dimension to our worship of God, not to convey every fine point of theology in three verses and a chorus.

Besides, it’s quite possible that the grace only appeared precious to the person once they began to believe. They may well have received all kinds of grace before that point and yet didn’t appreciate it or value it.

As for lack of humility, I see way more of it in the music threads on this forum than in “We Are the Light of the World”.

Muting now…these music threads are like the endless modesty threads, a whole lot of sound and fury signifying nothing and over nothing.

 

[LilyM]

Much music in the local parish is insipid, if not “un-Catholic.” Amazing Grace insinuates that grace arrives only once you believe. This denies the Sacraments, especially regarding children and baptism. Subtle, but who is the most subtle of all?

And the über-Catholic “We are the light of the world” strikes me as nothing more than boastful. Is it true? It is supposed to be, but should we sing it out proudly? We have enough trouble with lack of humility as it is.

Archbishop Sample of Portland, Oregon wrote a pastoral letter on sacred music. Though he may not be your Ordinary, the points and principles are universal. From the article:

"Pope Francis, too, has lamented ‘a certain mediocrity, superficiality and banality’ in liturgical celebrations that acts to the detriment of their “beauty and intensity.”

???

The line is “How precious did that grace appear (ie seem) the hour I first believed” .

This doesn’t mean the grace only started upon belief, but that the believer only saw/felt it’s ‘preciousness’ or value st that moment.

Think.of how Mary ‘appesred’ to St Bernadette. Does that mean Mary did not exist beforehand or elsewhere?

 

[Loud-living-dogma]

o_senhor_falado:

I imagine there might have been a few other people irked by it too.

Imagine also, if you will, that it was exactly what some other person needed to hear.

Yeah well, they have 24/7 to listen to Christian pop songs. Maybe it would have come up in their YouTube feed.
Songs like that are not intended as Catholic liturgical music.

 

[Loud-living-dogma]

o_senhor_falado:

. Like I said, maybe I’m being too sensitive and uncharitable.

I do think that anger so strong that it takes days to calm down seems like an overreaction. It’s just a song.

Yeah it’s just the public worship of our Church. The source and summit of our faith.
In other words, who cares?

 

[Loud-living-dogma]

Hymns are meant to add an emotional dimension to our worship of God, not to convey every fine point of theology in three verses and a chorus.

Besides, it’s quite possible that the grace only appeared precious to the person once they began to believe. They may well have received all kinds of grace before that point and yet didn’t appreciate it or value it.

As for lack of humility, I see way more of it in the music threads on this forum than in “We Are the Light of the World”.

Muting now…these music threads are like the endless modesty threads, a whole lot of sound and fury signifying nothing and over nothing.

Where on Earth did you get the idea that music at Mass is supposed to be emotional?!
Oh never mind, you muted…

 

[angel12]

In other words, who cares?

Nowhere did I say “who cares.” I said anger that takes days to dissipate seems like an overreaction.

I’ll thank you not to misrepresent my words. Even if you think misrepresentation is funny.

 

[Loud-living-dogma]

Okay, sorry if I interpreted the phrase “it’s just a song” as “who cares”. But they convey a similar sentiment to me and I bet to others as well.