Protestant versus Catholic

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I have a simple solution for everyone, take the sayings of Jesus in context out of the New Testament up to His ascention and put that in one book then toss out the rest save as secondary and minor relevance to Christianity.
That is not possible. Much of what Jesus said was based on the Old Testament. You have to understand the context of Jewish belief system in order to understand what Jesus is saying.
As for this issue of whether Mary was a perpetual virgin the passage earlier clearly said “until” the birth of Jesus so after that Joseph did have relations with her its clear to me. Yes he did.
See my post below regarding the false interpretation of this verse. Mary’s Perpetual Virginity was believed since the first century. Refer to the link I posted.
 
Where in Scripture can you find that Mary was childless after Christ? In fact, the RC church ignores the fact that Jesus had brothers and sisters.
They were brethren, a term used in the Arab world and the Hebrew world, indeed in the Christian world. We are brothers and sisters in Christ. There is no Hebrew or Aramaic word for cousin.
No please explain what it means when the text says Joseph KNEW HER NOT UNTIL Jesus was born.:confused:
This is a false modern development. Even Martin Luther believed in Mary’s Perpetual Virginity.
 
If that isn’t adding to Scripture I don’t know what is…😦
How does a deeper understanding of Scripture through historical evidence “add” to Scripture? Do you not use a commentary or footnotes to understand difficult verses?
 
qui est ce;They were brethren, a term used in the Arab world and the Hebrew world, indeed in the Christian world. We are brothers and sisters in Christ. There is no Hebrew or Aramaic word for cousin.
Sorry, I don’t buy that weak argument. There isn’t one thing in the context of Scripture, that His brothers coming to see Him were anyone other than His literal, blood-related, half-brothers. There is a greek word for cousin and it was never used here. Why? Because it is meant to be a blood related brother or sibling.
This is a false modern development. Even Martin Luther believed in Mary’s Perpetual Virginity.
Another very weak argument. How is it a false modern development when the Holy Scripture says “Joseph knew her not UNTIL Jesus was born”?? You can dance around that Scripture all you want, but you can’t deny what is meant there. So are you telling me when “Adam knew Eve and bore Cain” that means Eve was always a virgin, even after “knowing” her husband and having a kid?

You are denying the word of God if you say Joseph never knew (had sexual relations) Mary.
 
qui est ce;How does a deeper understanding of Scripture through historical evidence “add” to Scripture? Do you not use a commentary or footnotes to understand difficult verses?
Sure I use footnote to understand difficult verses. But there isn’t one verse in Scripture that is about Mary never losing her virginity or being lifted bodily into Heaven!? So how can you add a “footnote” to an invisible verse?? The only way you can do that is by bringing in a outside source like the catechism to back up your claims. You might as well follow all the Gnostic writings as well.

I mean seriously, how do we know Jesus claimed He was God. Because it was written in Scripture. How do we know Mary was a virgin all her life? It’s not in Scripture, it came from the made up ideas of the RC bishops. There is no evidence to back up this claim, period. It’s called making something out of nothing. That’s why the RC church doesn’t use Sola Scripture. Because if they did, they would need to remove all the the false teachings of Mary, among other things.
 
They were brethren, a term used in the Arab world and the Hebrew world, indeed in the Christian world. We are brothers and sisters in Christ. There is no Hebrew or Aramaic word for cousin.
This is a false modern development. Even Martin Luther believed in Mary’s Perpetual Virginity.
Yes, but is there a Greek word for cousin?
 
Yes, but is there a Greek word for cousin?
Jesus spoke Aramaic, not Greek. He probably could read in Hebrew, because the Scriptures would have been in Hebrew. Hebrew was already out of use as a spoken language by the first century AD.
 
Jesus spoke Aramaic, not Greek. He probably could read in Hebrew, because the Scriptures would have been in Hebrew. Hebrew was already out of use as a spoken language by the first century AD.
Check out the thread about whether or not Jesus spoke Greek.
 
Sorry, I don’t buy that weak argument. There isn’t one thing in the context of Scripture, that His brothers coming to see Him were anyone other than His literal, blood-related, half-brothers. There is a greek word for cousin and it was never used here. Why? Because it is meant to be a blood related brother or sibling.
but were they the children of Mary and Joseph, or the children of Joseph from a previous marriage?
Another very weak argument. How is it a false modern development when the Holy Scripture says “Joseph knew her not UNTIL Jesus was born”?? You can dance around that Scripture all you want, but you can’t deny what is meant there.
Since at least the time of St. Jerome (4th century AD) the belief that Mary was ever virgin was acknowledged in writing. It’s a historical fact that’s what the Church believed.

Also, if Mary had other children, why did Jesus give Mary to John at the cross? To give one’s mother to a non-relative simply wasn’t done.
So are you telling me when “Adam knew Eve and bore Cain” that means Eve was always a virgin, even after “knowing” her husband and having a kid?
I never said that. Please reread my post.
You are denying the word of God if you say Joseph never knew (had sexual relations) Mary.
How am I denying the word of God? Did God say they knew each other AFTER the birth of Jesus? Or are you implying it from the misinterpretation of the word “until.”

I would prefer to discuss this on the other thread.🙂
 
Queen of Heaven in Revelations, Bathsheba to Solomon.
I wouldn’t say believing in the Perpetual Virginity is salvific in and of itself. It is part of the Truth of Salvation History, which must be understood and believed in order to be saved.
If the perpetual virginity of Mary IS true, can you explain how a woman can give birth to a child through the birth canal and after this is again a virgin? And do not say with God nothing is impossible.
Anther key word here is the words about Mary, “Brought forth her FIRSTBORN son.” How can you have a FIRST born if there are no other siblings? IF she was a perpetual virgin why wouldn’t the scriptures say “only begotten.”
 
Padrej,

Your answer to the virgin birth of Christ may be found in Scripture…the same manner as Christ was born in Bethlehem to that in Jerusalem on Resurrection Sunday evening when He passed through the locked door of the Upper Room to encounter the Apostles.
 
If the perpetual virginity of Mary IS true, can you explain how a woman can give birth to a child through the birth canal and after this is again a virgin? And do not say with God nothing is impossible.
Anther key word here is the words about Mary, “Brought forth her FIRSTBORN son.” How can you have a FIRST born if there are no other siblings? IF she was a perpetual virgin why wouldn’t the scriptures say “only begotten.”
i think according to Tradition, i think, is that Jesus was not borne like us. it was not a normal type of birth. i thought i heard long time ago from a Catholic that Jesus appeared by the side of Mary. anyone can correct me if i am wrong. that is what i remember.
 
Queen of Heaven in Revelations, Bathsheba to Solomon.
I wouldn’t say believing in the Perpetual Virginity is salvific in and of itself. It is part of the Truth of Salvation History, which must be understood and believed in order to be saved.
Hi Christine,
As you already know, I believe that the Holy Theotokos was ever virgin. However, what you state here is where I respectfully disagree with Catholic teaching. I don’t see how belief that she had other children negatively influences the salvation won for us by Christ.

One the other hand, I also don’t see how belief in her perpetual virginity is unscriptural.

Jon
 
Padrej,

Your answer to the virgin birth of Christ may be found in Scripture…the same manner as Christ was born in Bethlehem to that in Jerusalem on Resurrection Sunday evening when He passed through the locked door of the Upper Room to encounter the Apostles.
KethleenGee
I am not arguing the virgin BIRTH of Christ. The Bible says, “a virgin shall CONCEIVE” the angel then tells her after you GIVE BIRTH (No miracle mentioned) you shall name Him…" Are you saying that Mary experienced NO labor pains and Jesus Miraculously passed through the birth canal? How would this then allow Him to be fully human?

Also how can Jesus be her FIRST BORN? This indicates there had to be other siblings.
 
i think according to Tradition, i think, is that Jesus was not borne like us. it was not a normal type of birth. i thought i heard long time ago from a Catholic that Jesus appeared by the side of Mary. anyone can correct me if i am wrong. that is what i remember.
In all of my studies I have never heard such.
 
In all of my studies I have never heard such.
yes, that is what i heard. i believe it was a priest who said this. which it make sense to me. that is what i believe to be true, since all things are possible with God. i will continue to believe that is how Christ came into the world. remember that she did not sleep with man. yet she was pregnant. you might want to ponder on this.
 
=Padrej;7026774]If the perpetual virginity of Mary IS true, can you explain how a woman can give birth to a child through the birth canal and after this is again a virgin? And do not say with God nothing is impossible.
Hello Father,
My understanding of virgin has always been having had no intercourse with a man. Your’s seems to be that having once given birth, she was no longer a virgin. Could you please explain what you mean?
Anther key word here is the words about Mary, “Brought forth her FIRSTBORN son.” How can you have a FIRST born if there are no other siblings? IF she was a perpetual virgin why wouldn’t the scriptures say “only begotten.”
At the Passover, when the first borns of the Egyptians died, is it your understanding that if a family only had one child (son), that child was not killed? IOW, is it your understanding that first born is a term to differentiate between him and younger siblings, or a title, regardless of the existence of other siblings?

Jon
 
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