Protestant versus Catholic

[Jon_Hus]

Funny, I have not known a Catholic yet who worships Mary as a deity. Even I as a Baptist know the difference between idol worship and veneration.
I take it from your posts that you must be an Adventist as you mention “Keep the Sabbath Saturday like the ancient Jews” Funny the first day of the week became known as the “Lord’s day” when Christians worshiped, you can find this in Revelation. Maybe you should start reading your Bible instead of making inflammatory remarks as what you have done. Pedophiles are in Protestant clergy and in schools as well, posting such does not bring the peace of Christ but rather confusion and hatred. And I assume you do know who the father of confusion is.

Not that I care RevJoe, but your bio says you are an Evangelical Baptist. I assume that you are a pastor. If this is correct and you have been to seminary and have studied systematic theology, historic development of doctrine, reformation history and the Holy Bible and for some odd reason know something about what the Roman Catholic Church teaches then you would also know that the gulf between the theology of most Evangelicals and Catholics is so huge as to make the quibbling between Evangelicals and SDA seem minute.

Call me jaded, that is your right but I for one believe that what many Catholics call “unity” means in laymens terms “conformance” to their religion. I have no problem with dialogue but compromise for the sake of “unity” on essentials of the faith will lead to compromise of the faith in total. In the USA, we have the freedom to choose what if any church or religion we want so what is holding back any person of say a traditional protestant background from joining the RCC if they are so interested in unity with them? Of course the answer is nothing is holding them back, so why don’t they do this? On the other hand, Catholics likewise interested in unity could become protestants for the same reasons but is anyone here offering that as a solution to this question that occupies the time of so many today? The question of the century I guess. But you should know this because baptist’s are the total theological opposites of catholics within the confines of christondom.

What church do you pastor, where did you go to seminary and why are you a baptist and not a catholic?

 

[rinnie]

Not that I care RevJoe, but your bio says you are an Evangelical Baptist. I assume that you are a pastor. If this is correct and you have been to seminary and have studied systematic theology, historic development of doctrine, reformation history and the Holy Bible and for some odd reason know something about what the Roman Catholic Church teaches then you would also know that the gulf between the theology of most Evangelicals and Catholics is so huge as to make the quibbling between Evangelicals and SDA seem minute.

Call me jaded, that is your right but I for one believe that what many Catholics call “unity” means in laymens terms “conformance” to their religion. I have no problem with dialogue but compromise for the sake of “unity” on essentials of the faith will lead to compromise of the faith in total. In the USA, we have the freedom to choose what if any church or religion we want so what is holding back any person of say a traditional protestant background from joining the RCC if they are so interested in unity with them? Of course the answer is nothing is holding them back, so why don’t they do this? On the other hand, Catholics likewise interested in unity could become protestants for the same reasons but is anyone here offering that as a solution to this question that occupies the time of so many today? The question of the century I guess. But you should know this because baptist’s are the total theological opposites of catholics within the confines of christondom.

What church do you pastor, where did you go to seminary and why are you a baptist and not a catholic?

Jon here is a HUGE thing. For a true Catholic to become a Protestant would be Impossible for ONE thing in general. The Eucharist. Speaking for myself and I believe many Catholic’s we could NEVER give up the Eucharist.

The main thing you have to realize the RCC Centers around one thing. The Eucharist. Without it there would be no Church.

Just my:twocents:

 

[JonNC]

If I say now that I am your Father, would you give me the honor and serve me your duties as a son or would you scorn at me and scold me to my face? If you will take the latter like what you will, does it not show that you find me unworthy? If you take the former does it not show that I am greater than you are?

Can a man be the father of another yet not be greater than he is? You hypocrites, if you were aware of what shame you have brought to God, you wouldn’t be going round telling everyone how you made me lower than that of an earthly woman.

.

I am the father of my children - they sometimes call me “Father”, and while they honor me, as scripture requires, I do not consider myself greater than either of them. And neither of them would say that by calling me “Father” puts me on a plane with God. How does their calling me Father put God to shame.

Words can have multiply meanings and applications. No Catholic that I know of, considers his priest to be on a plane with God, either. Nor do they use the term as implying that their priest is in some way equal to God.

Now, were you to call yourself my “father”, I would not scorn you to your face, but would simply ignore it as there is no application of the term that you would fit. You are not my pastor, or my earthly father. And despite your attempts to condemn and judge me and others,

PS. If you were blind, you wouldn’t be guilty. But now that you say you see, your guilt remains.​

You shall wallow in your sins till the day of your eternal condemnation. And no pity shall be given you.

you are not my heavenly Father.

Like benidict, I hope you will remain to continue charitable dialogue, but my fear is that the moderators will not continue to allow the dialogue you’ve displayed here.

Here’s hoping stay.

Jon

 

[Protestant101]

Funny, I have not known a Catholic yet who worships Mary as a deity. Even I as a Baptist know the difference between idol worship and veneration.
I take it from your posts that you must be an Adventist as you mention “Keep the Sabbath Saturday like the ancient Jews” Funny the first day of the week became known as the “Lord’s day” when Christians worshiped, you can find this in Revelation. Maybe you should start reading your Bible instead of making inflammatory remarks as what you have done. Pedophiles are in Protestant clergy and in schools as well, posting such does not bring the peace of Christ but rather confusion and hatred. And I assume you do know who the father of confusion is.

I agree that this person’s remarks were inflammatory; but I disagree that (even with their name on the church books) this person is an Adventist.

But, I also disagree that Sunday is “the Lord’s day.” I know very well what the text in Revelation says; but it does not say anything about the seventh-day being switched over to the first day; it does not say anywhere that that text is talking about Sunday.

 

[Protestant101]

To go back to the Church the way Jesus started it. For us to follow the teaching’s of the Apostles the way Jesus taught it, not the way we want it to be.

Authority is the big issue. Who did Jesus leave authority to? The CC. To follow the truth and to all live together and repect eachother but to also respect the leaders of the Church to lead us to the fullness of the truth. The way God set it up.

The Church of Rome is never going to give in to what WE want. The Church cannot do that. It is held by the Promise of the Holy Spirit to teach and hold all truth. It cannot change.

That’s true Rinnie; authority is the big issue that seems to dwarf all the other issues. Studying the nature of authority, and how people use/perceive it is very interesting to me.

I will say that I don’t think anyone in either Protestant or Catholic denominations are really very conversant with the nature of God’s authority, and how the Bible depicts same within our Churches.

 

[Protestant101]

i told you not to respond!:tsktsk: your just gonna get yourself in trouble once again. then i have to wait to converse with you again. Jesus loves you. and wants you come to him. i will not give up, until i get a message that you have received the love of Christ into your life. and that you have nothing but love for his Church. as St. Augustines mother prayed for him. i will pray for you. and return your venom with Charity. you are my pet project, and i will persist in prayer for your soul. i hope one day to see you at the feet of Jesus. i for one, am my brothers keeper. and you my friend, are going to be my brother. you just dont realize it yet. i have faith. Peace

Way to go benedict; I like your attitude!

 

[Protestant101]

You shall wallow in your sins till the day of your eternal condemnation. And no pity shall be given you.

Howdy friend! We can all “wallow” together.

Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

 

[Protestant101]

The Anglicans involved in the subject matter of that forum did, as part of their expression of desiring unity with Rome, use the Catechism as a marker of their desire, saying they accepted all of it. I don’t think there is a written RCC position that accepting the Catechism constitutes unity with Rome, in and of itself, but certainly, AFAIK, unity would involve accepting all RC dogma and doctrine, as expressed in the Catechism. IOW, you can’t be in union with Rome without accepting what Rome teaches, and that is expressed in the Catechism. But then, I’m an Anglican, and speak as an outsider.

GKC

Maybe for starters someone could show me where this would be in the Catechism? I would appreciate that.

 

[chris_molter]

Since it says your Catholic (Anglican) are you planning to attend a parish who is part of the Ordinariate when they are established. I believe there is an Anglican Catholic Cathedral in Orlando that appears to joining the Ordinariate. Just curious. If Orlando does, in fact, be so lucky to have an Anglican Use parish in the future I envy you.

God Bless

Bernadette

I’m actually just a run of the mill Latin Rite-r since I came into full communion in 05 from TEC (although it was an irregular situation… you can PM me if you want details), but yes, I’m hoping to attend what is now the Cathedral of the Incarnation on Edgewater when they come into the Church! I’ve been praying for years that an Anglican Use parish open up here, and God has provided something even greater with the Ordinariate!

 

[rinnie]

Maybe for starters someone could show me where this would be in the Catechism? I would appreciate that.

Not sure if this is what you are asking Pro101, But if you are asking about the governing office then yes they must be in communion with Rome.

Try putting in CCC 895 The last sentence says this. Their authority must be exercised in communion with the whole Church under the guidance of the Pope.

 

[Jon_Hus]

Jon here is a HUGE thing. For a true Catholic to become a Protestant would be Impossible for ONE thing in general. The Eucharist. Speaking for myself and I believe many Catholic’s we could NEVER give up the Eucharist.

The main thing you have to realize the RCC Centers around one thing. The Eucharist. Without it there would be no Church.

Just my:twocents:

You make my point for me very well, that is to repeat again, unity for catholics means that protestants/orthodox and and any other interloper should conform to Rome, become catholics. And further, you rinnie seem to be teaching that protestants/orthodox are not as V2 termed “separated brethern” but rather totally outside of the church as defined by Rome. I agree with you BTW but not for the reasons you believe.I’m sure you will correct me if I’m wrong.

It’s interesting to me, my wife’s Aunt who lives in proper New England and is 95 years young and still out and about and a life long committed Catholic, during a visit last weekend made polite nice nice of a religious nature to me and Mrs. Hus. Amusing after 25 years of obvious disdane for our odd beliefs.

 

[rinnie]

You make my point for me very well, that is to repeat again, unity for catholics means that protestants/orthodox and and any other interloper should conform to Rome, become catholics. And further, you rinnie seem to be teaching that protestants/orthodox are not as V2 termed “separated brethern” but rather totally outside of the church as defined by Rome. I agree with you BTW but not for the reasons you believe.I’m sure you will correct me if I’m wrong.

It’s interesting to me, my wife’s Aunt who lives in proper New England and is 95 years young and still out and about and a life long committed Catholic, during a visit last weekend made polite nice nice of a religious nature to me and Mrs. Hus. Amusing after 25 years of obvious disdane for our odd beliefs.

You know Jon its kinda like it is what it is. And I never said that you are TOTALLY OUTSIDE of the Church you said that.

I said that let me put it this way, forgive me for putting the cards on the table but the truth is the truth.

The Pope is never going to CHANGE any teaching of the RCC. HE CAN"T. Do you see what I am saying. He made a promise when he took his vows to keep with the teaching’s of Jesus Christ that he received by the successor’s of the Apostles.

I know it seems like its my way or the highway but that’s how it really is. But for me Jon, That is what I am saying. I had the truth revealed to me, and I cannot buck the Pope. Do you see what I am saying.

Every Truth that you have came from the CC do you not agree?

 

[rinnie]

[SIGN][/SIGN]

You make my point for me very well, that is to repeat again, unity for catholics means that protestants/orthodox and and any other interloper[SIGN] should conform to Rome[/SIGN], become catholics. And further, you rinnie seem to be teaching that protestants/orthodox are not as V2 termed “separated brethern” but rather totally outside of the church as defined by Rome. I agree with you BTW but not for the reasons you believe.I’m sure you will correct me if I’m wrong.

It’s interesting to me, my wife’s Aunt who lives in proper New England and is 95 years young and still out and about and a life long committed Catholic, during a visit last weekend made polite nice nice of a religious nature to me and Mrs. Hus. Amusing after 25 years of obvious disdane for our odd beliefs.

Not should Jon, will have to. I am sorry I am not telling you what you want to hear. But I am telling you the truth. Jesus left the keys to Peter and the Pope is Peter of the RCC.

There is not ONE teaching of the Church that I can not agree with. Not one goes against SS or ST. The Pope is never going to accept anything but Apostolic Truth, and is never going to teach anything but Apostolic Truth. The Holy Spirit promised us that.

 

[Jon_Hus]

The Pope is never going to CHANGE any teaching of the RCC. HE CAN"T. Do you see what I am saying. He made a promise when he took his vows to keep with the teaching’s of Jesus Christ that he received by the successor’s of the Apostles.

I know it seems like its my way or the highway but that’s how it really is. But for me Jon, That is what I am saying. I had the truth revealed to me, and I cannot buck the Pope. Do you see what I am saying.

Every Truth that you have came from the CC do you not agree?

Since the popes arent going to change then the unity you seek will never happen. But you (collectivly) are the one’s seeking unity. I will not agree with you that every truth comes from the CC. Let me be totally clear on this, every truth as pertains to God comes from God (Jehovah God) and is recorded in the Holy Bible. It is in those words that this separated brethern puts his faith and trust.

 

[rinnie]

Since the popes arent going to change then the unity you seek will never happen. But you (collectivly) are the one’s seeking unity. I will not agree with you that every truth comes from the CC. Let me be totally clear on this, every truth as pertains to God comes from God (Jehovah God) and is recorded in the Holy Bible. It is in those words that this separated brethern puts his faith and trust.

How do you know? And yes we will ALWAYS seek Unity. All are welcome to the house of the Lord.

Now you made a statement. Prove it. Show me ONE truth that did not come from the CC!

 

[Jon_Hus]

How do you know? And yes we will ALWAYS seek Unity. All are welcome to the house of the Lord.

Now you made a statement. Prove it. Show me ONE truth that did not come from the CC!

As a general rule, I don’t waste time trying to make my point with those who are determined to discredit it out of hand. So you tell me, how could I justify the time to respond to your questions?

 

[rinnie]

As a general rule, I don’t waste time trying to make my point with those who are determined to discredit it out of hand. So you tell me, how could I justify the time to respond to your questions?

By proving your Point. And I can not justify your time for you I can only Justify my time. And my justification would be proving that all Truth comes from the CC

 

[Jon_Hus]

and for that I give you the last word

 

[rinnie]

and for that I give you the last word

Yeah that’s what I kind of figured. But I will accept the last word and sing Praise and Honor to our Dear Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

And give thanks for the RCC which has been promised to be led by the Power of the Holy Spirit to lead all into the fullness of the truth

 

[GKC]

Maybe for starters someone could show me where this would be in the Catechism? I would appreciate that.

If I find time, I might browse around the Catechism a little and see. But is what you are asking for some sort of statement that to be in unity with Rome requires one to affirm all doctrine and dogmas that Rome teaches? Are you thinking perhaps one could be officially considered in communion with Rome, while not accepting all such dogma and doctrine?

GKC