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PRmerger
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Interesting!
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PRmerger
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So do you believe that Mary was not the spouse of St. Joseph? Remember, the Orthodox believe that she did not engage in marital relations with him.
Then you would have to claim that Adam and Eve were also not human, since they, too, were conceived without original sin.
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KathleenGee
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Coming to this page, Constantine, and with your past comments, I am questioning just how much Orthodox think like you.
Last year I served a Greek Orthodox widow in her home. It was filled with icons of Mary Theotokos. I revealed to them I was Catholic and greatly enjoyed their presence. They told me it gives them such a sense of motherly protection, especially with father now deceased.
The next day worker came in and I asked her what she thought of the icons. She responded that she was a Christian. I asked why that?..and she said she goes to her Christian church and they do not worship Mary. I told her I was Catholic and that we do not worship Mary, and that I am a Christian and implied these Greek Orthodox were as well.
That was it, but I sometimes want to let such Protestants know they should look for another ecclesial community.
Last year I served a Greek Orthodox widow in her home. It was filled with icons of Mary Theotokos. I revealed to them I was Catholic and greatly enjoyed their presence. They told me it gives them such a sense of motherly protection, especially with father now deceased.
The next day worker came in and I asked her what she thought of the icons. She responded that she was a Christian. I asked why that?..and she said she goes to her Christian church and they do not worship Mary. I told her I was Catholic and that we do not worship Mary, and that I am a Christian and implied these Greek Orthodox were as well.
That was it, but I sometimes want to let such Protestants know they should look for another ecclesial community.
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EIF5A
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Her Holy Soul ascended first then the (physical?) glorified body after, and not together?
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KathleenGee
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PRMerger, I shared with my sister your analogy of the soiled plastic bottle to represent womanhood vs the Holy Virgin. We were going to Mass to meet our new archbishop. We talked about how one sin can do a big mess to our soul and personality, just like the old oil did to the once clean bottle.
I like your other comments here on this page, too.
I like your other comments here on this page, too.
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EIF5A
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The confusion is, “Well, what’s the actual practical difference between latria and hyperdulia?” Yes, there are terms to differentiate the two, but how does one practice latria and how does one practice hyperdulia?
Maybe I’m not “fundamentalist” enough or have not been around such people, but I never got the impression growing up that Catholics were not Christians. (Never heard of Orthodox until recently.)
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GaryTaylor
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PRmerger
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SteveVH
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Are you kidding me? Is not the Church the spouse of Christ? Do you think that in any way has a sexual connotation? Who is the Father of Jesus? Who is the mother of Jesus? Of course God did not have sexual relations with Mary and I have just shown you that a spousal relationship does not have to mean a sexual relationship. But when you are the father, I guarantee you that you have a spousal relationship with the mother.
A relationship between the divine and the human is not at all analogous to human sexual relations. You are doing nothing but building a straw man here. No Catholic believes that God had sexual relations with Mary so to imply that we do is just not being honest. You have debunked nothing.
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Porknpie
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Steve, is this not a Mormon theological thought?
uch:
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GaryTaylor
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Biblical for sure.
1 Corinthians 3
1 Brothers, I could not talk to you as spiritual people, but as fleshly people, as infants in Christ.
2 I fed you milk, not solid food, because you were unable to take it. Indeed, you are still not able, even now, for you are still of the flesh. While there is jealousy and rivalry among you,
3 are you not of the flesh, and behaving in an ordinary human way?
1 Corinthians 3
1 Brothers, I could not talk to you as spiritual people, but as fleshly people, as infants in Christ.
2 I fed you milk, not solid food, because you were unable to take it. Indeed, you are still not able, even now, for you are still of the flesh. While there is jealousy and rivalry among you,
3 are you not of the flesh, and behaving in an ordinary human way?
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KathleenGee
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Agree with PorknPie here…that the concern about Mary having sex with God…again is projecting alot on to what we do not believe.
EIFA, my daughter prays for me and I for her. We are intercessing for each other. But she has special devotion to me as her mother in that I allowed her to live. I could have chosen to abort her. This is basically what happens to many unborn in that their mothers have them destroyed in their wombs. My daughter can enrichen my life, but she did not cooperate with God to give me life. However, I cooperated with God and in my free will allowed her to continue to live within me before birth, and cared for her until she was a grown up, and in many ways still care for her in my heart.
Mary gives us new life in Christ with her fiat. We ask her powerful intercession, and likewise we give her additional devotion and veneration because she is in a most sacred place as the Mother of God.
Finally, we are living in communion. Our first goal as Catholics is to enter into the divine life of the Holy Trinity, Whose essence is communion. Mary and the saints are now in the fullness of this communion in heaven. We cannot believe their concern for us here on earth ended when they entered heaven. This communion of the Holy Trinity and the communion of saints with Mary continue with us here on earth. We are part of each other through faith and sanctifying grace.
EIFA, my daughter prays for me and I for her. We are intercessing for each other. But she has special devotion to me as her mother in that I allowed her to live. I could have chosen to abort her. This is basically what happens to many unborn in that their mothers have them destroyed in their wombs. My daughter can enrichen my life, but she did not cooperate with God to give me life. However, I cooperated with God and in my free will allowed her to continue to live within me before birth, and cared for her until she was a grown up, and in many ways still care for her in my heart.
Mary gives us new life in Christ with her fiat. We ask her powerful intercession, and likewise we give her additional devotion and veneration because she is in a most sacred place as the Mother of God.
Finally, we are living in communion. Our first goal as Catholics is to enter into the divine life of the Holy Trinity, Whose essence is communion. Mary and the saints are now in the fullness of this communion in heaven. We cannot believe their concern for us here on earth ended when they entered heaven. This communion of the Holy Trinity and the communion of saints with Mary continue with us here on earth. We are part of each other through faith and sanctifying grace.
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ConstantineTG
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Spouse is a wife, what other meaning is there. To say that the action of the Holy Spirit in conceiving Jesus in the womb of Mary is spousal is to make the act sexual. There is no other way around that. I mean, if it is not sexual, then why insist that Mary is the spouse of the Holy Spirit? This claim is piety gone wrong.You and I do not believe the only way God could impregnate Mary was via sex? Scripture said God did it via the HS. Your hang up is the word spouse.
What it means is what was said to Joseph.
If we want to ignore the words of scripture which clearly define the HSs role then yes we can just believe that God can make a woman pregnant without taking her for His wife.
You are taking the word spouse, to mean wife, way too literal. OK forget the word spouse. What other person is the daughter of the Father, impregnated by God via the Holy Spirit via supernatural means, and the mother of the Son? What other person had that kind of relationship with the holy Trinity? None. That is pretty awesome…
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ConstantineTG
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Elijah was treated differently as well. The problem with the IC is about the humanity of Mary in contrast to the rest of us. Of course everyone gets something unique, but that doesn’t make us a different human from the rest. The IC does.
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Arizona_Samson
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This “dilemma” is only present in the minds of some of our Catholic friends in these threads that have grown fond of perpetrating this false dilemma.
Since one must assume A to be true to posit B, this is an error of false presumption.
I do not accept the authority and infallibility of the Catholic Church in determining Canon. Fact is I categorically reject any claim to authority and infallibility that the Catholic Church makes for itself.
And yes, I do believe the Catholic Church errors on faith and morals - which is one of many reasons I am not Catholic.
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pablope
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How about you…are you the one to declare what is in error and what is not?
Is it possible you are the one in error? Do you claim to be perfect?
And are you infallible to make a declaration of what is erronious and what is not?
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joe371
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Again, OK forget the word spouse. What other person is the daughter of the Father, impregnated by God via the Holy Spirit via supernatural means, and the mother of the Son? What other person had that kind of relationship with the holy Trinity? You find nothing unique about that relationship?
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joe371
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Who determined the canon? Let’s leave the Catholic Church and every other non-Catholic Church out of the discussion. Please be specific.
If all churches “error on faith and morals” including the Catholic Church, then how can truth be known, for sure, for you and I and every other Christian?
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dvdjs
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Really, it is her being Theotokos that makes her different than the rest. Bishop Dimitri, the last OCA Bishop of the South basically said that if you don;t get that, you don’t get the mystery of the incarnation.
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Arizona_Samson
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The error of your analogy lies in the fact that I’m not free to believe the above to be true because the voice of* The Most High God* has proclaimed them false.
Huge difference!
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