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CWBetts
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Luke 1:43
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fbl9
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Question for Rick Holland, Bengoshi and Dokimas: when did your spirit rejoice in God and call Him your Savior? before or after you were saved?
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onenow1
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Jesus has the same body now that he was born with friends, therefore Mary Indeed]! was the Mother of God. Jesus went through a lot of trouble to show us His risen body a promise that this would be us if we obeyed His commands spoken throughout the entire bible.
Mary from birth to death has pointed to Her Son in time of need. We are adopted sons and daughters of Mary, and Jesus decree on the cross when he turned to Mary and His disciple and said in; John 19: 25-27" When Jesus saw his mother, and the disciple whom he loved standing near, he said to his mother, “Woman, behold, your son!” Then he said to the disciple, “Behold, your mother!” And from that hour the disciple took her to his own home.
The Assumtion of Mary only reinforces the belief in being adopted sons of God, and of the ressurection, after all no matter how you cut the cake she was the spouse of the Holy Spirit, third person of the Triune God.
REV 12: 1, And a great portent appeared in heaven, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars.
Peace and God Bless
onenow1
Mary from birth to death has pointed to Her Son in time of need. We are adopted sons and daughters of Mary, and Jesus decree on the cross when he turned to Mary and His disciple and said in; John 19: 25-27" When Jesus saw his mother, and the disciple whom he loved standing near, he said to his mother, “Woman, behold, your son!” Then he said to the disciple, “Behold, your mother!” And from that hour the disciple took her to his own home.
The Assumtion of Mary only reinforces the belief in being adopted sons of God, and of the ressurection, after all no matter how you cut the cake she was the spouse of the Holy Spirit, third person of the Triune God.
REV 12: 1, And a great portent appeared in heaven, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars.
Peace and God Bless
onenow1
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AwGusTeen
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jpaul1953
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what about John the Baptist?
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2nd_Adam
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I believe that even though God chose Mary as His vessel to give us our Lord Jesus Christ in a human body, it does not mean God was dependent on Mary’s cooperation to fullfill His divine plan of redemption. Consider Jesus’s words about Sons of Abraham in the same line of thinking: IMO… I believe Mary would reject the title of Queen Mother of Heaven and earth, and she would point us soley to Jesus Chrsit, deflecting any attention given her which would have a tendency to take our focus and affection away from Jesus Christ.
Luke 3:8
Bear fruits in keeping with repentance. And do not begin to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I tell you, God is able from these stones to raise up children for Abraham.
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guanophore
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No, Rick. She knew she was saved, but that does not make her a sinner. God redeemed her from the stain of original sin at the moment of conception. She chose not to sin, just as we are all to do. Anyone who thinks that God’s grace cannot lead us to a sinless life has a deficient understandingn of God’s plan for us.Probably explains why she said herself “my God my Savior”, but apparently you knew more than she did; how god-like of you
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guanophore
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maybe neither of the above speculations is true? Maybe you are neither unintelligent or spiritually prideful. Maybe you just are drinking too much before posting?
There is no such thing as an “earthly dead saint”, so no, you won’t find any scriptural reference to this, or any other concepts that are simply a product of your imagination.
If you think that Saints and angels do not intercede for us before God, then you are not reading your scriptures.
However, if you think that those who die in Christ are not “alive forevermore” as He said they would be, there is really no point trying to have the discussion at all.
This seems to be a rather condescending comment. FYI, intellect belongs to human beings, not to the Bible. Intellect functions to help us to understand the Bible, and when the intellect is not informed by the Apostolic Teaching as yours is not, then one will not properly interpret what one is reading.I’ll smoke a cigar:hey_bud: and eat some popcornwhile we all wait with great anticipation for your Biblical intellect to shine forth.
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guanophore
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To the extent that we each contribute to the lack of unity in the Body,we are all guilty. And when the Body is fractured, it is between all of us. This idea that we are not members one of another is very detructive.
It is even more sad that you are spreading this lie.
The Catholic Church does not teach this.
This is another lie that you are spreading.
The Catholic Church does not teach this either.
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guanophore
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It is not an “admission”, Rick, it is a hymn to God in thanksgiving for His Great Works. It is a confession of faith.
This passage does not refer to “all humans”. Paul is making a comparison between Jews and Greeks, righteous, and unrighteous. He is saying that both groups contain faithless sinners. If you look at the Psalm from which this is quoted, it will become clear that it does not refer to “everyone”.
Mary is not a goddess, she is a creature. To say otherwise is a departure from the Catholic faith. If you think that the attributes of Mary are make her a “goddess” then you dont’ understand God’s plan for mankind.
Yes, but what it says is not the same as how you interpret it. Read the Psalm from which the quote was taken, then we will talk.
No, Rick. You are adding words to the Scripture. Mary was saved from sn by Her Divine Son, just as we all are. The Apostle here is referring to original sin, not personal sin.
I see that you have rewritten it, but it now fits with your obvious misunderstanding of what Catholics believe.
CAF is certainly more tolerant of those with different theology than CARM is of Catholics.
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guanophore
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Referring to the Mother of Jesus as “baggage” is one of the most disrespectful comments I have heard here on CAF, and I have heard a lot, I can tell you.Depending on how you meant that; that would like trying to agonize through the narrow gate with some baggage; it is difficult w/o any baggage and you’ll never fit through it till you drop all the baggage. Just a thought from the Word.
I can’t imagine that someone who claims to love Jesus would conceptualize HIs Mother in such a manner! Jesus is the Son of God, but He is also the Son of Mary! What man does not take offense when someone insults his mother!
Anyway, it is an inappropriate reference, as Mary is already through the gate that is narrow, and resides with her Kingly Son in eternity. She will be waiting for you on the other side, forgiving you for your ignorant and disrepectful expressions.
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guanophore
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This statement reflects several errors. One is the manner in which you interpret the passage about sin. Another is that God is the only one incapable of not sinning. God expects us all to live without sin. This is how He created us, and this is why He came to die for us. The notion to the contrary is a modern innovation of the Reformation.
No one said that Mary was incapable of sin. She chose not to sin, just as we are all to do.2nd_Adam said:
We believe all that God has said.2nd_Adam said:
We do not agree with your interpretation of what He said.
Jesus appointed a teaching authority and instructed the disciples to settle their differences of this kind by taking it to the Church.
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CWBetts
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Why do you think Mary does not point us to Jesus? My devotion to Jesus has grown since growing closer to Mary. Love increases the capacity to love. The more I love Mary, all the more love I have for the Saviour.
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guanophore
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Note pad is better. no codes.Thank you…I have repeated this answer so many times I feel like typing it up in a word document and doing a copy/past every time it gets brought up!
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guanophore
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No, Rick. You are misunderstanding both the scripture and what was said. Hebrews is written to believers. Believers who reject Christ are then left with nothing, since without Christ, there is no gate to heaven. We shouldn’t get into this here because it is off topic in this thread. Suffice to say that Mary never “crucified the Son of God afresh”, therefore it was not impossible to redeem her.
We read it differently, Rick. Catholics read scripture from the point of view from which it was written (Aposotlic). We see it differently because you are reading it from a perspective separated from Apostolic Teaching. Again, this is off topic in this thread. suffice to say that Mary was a elected, called, saved, and believed. She is not “baggage”.
It is no new, Rick. We recognize that three of the four seeds sprouted. The faith was planted in them, and grew. You have misunderstood the parable of the seeds. However, that is off topic here also. Suffice to say that the seed of faith God planted in Mary grew, matured, and bore fruit.
You are misunderstanding the use of the word “worship” Rick.
I agree, it is unfortunate that ancient Latin does not have the same meaning as modern English. Suffice to say that Catholics do not worship any creature, but God alone. I know when you read this, it does not seem that way to you, but it is because you misunderstand what you are reading.
I pray that you can receive this.
What is referred to as “indirect worship” is still directed toward God. We are recognizing Him in His creation,and honoring Him as God, through the things that have been made.
You have misunderstood the teaching of the Church, Rick.
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guanophore
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No, Rick, it does not. She fed Him at her breast, changed His diapers, taught Him how to walk and talk, washed His clothes and his dirty hands and feet, taught Him piety and protected Him all His life. She accompanied Him through His ministry and right up to the foot of the cross. She was given to the Church by HIm, and remained with the Apostles serving the faithful until her days on earth were ended.
Honestly, I think people who refer to His mother as “baggage” and say “she gave birth to him, and it stops there” are really reflecting a personal experience of their own mothers, and assuming all mothers are as deficient.
Yes, I did know that. She had a blessing no one else ever has had, or ever will.
It is her desire that we all become His saints. She is the mother of all who follow her son, and commands us all to “do whatever He tells you”.
Choosing not to sin has nothing to do with the gift of infallibility. We are all expected to choose not to sin. the fact that we are falllible is what makes it necessary to choose the good!
Yes, it is you we disagree with, Rick. We disagree with your interpretations of Scripture. We understand what is written differently.
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lil_flower_luv
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Thank you, guanophore and CWBetts. Thank you.
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guanophore
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God can save whoever He wants, however He likes. However, what makes you think that someone was saved without faith?
No. It would be your PERCEPTION that He changed. However, we can already clearly see that your perceptions have digressed markedly from what the Apostles believed and taught.
Rick, you are welcome here at CAF, but if you wish to engage in discussion with us, it is required that you respect our faith. That means that you refrain from calling our faith “lies”.
Anyway, a lie is a deliberate attempt to deceive someone. We sincerely believe, and want you to believe what the Apsotles taught about Mary. therefore, it is not a deliberate attempt to deceive ( a lie).
I can’t think of one. The exception here would be YOU. You are the one that does not believe His rule and authority does not exist in the Church He founded.
I agree with you that Paul is addressing persons who have reached the age of accountability in this passage. It does not apply to those who have not attained it, or do not have the capacity to accept or reject. So, in essence, you are in agreement with the Catholic Church that the word "all " used in this passage does not mean “all” in the sense that it describes all of humanity. Clearly children and the diminshed intellectual capacity are not included as sinners.
No.
If they were that sad, they might have been motivated to baptize their children.
I don’t imagine they were any sadder that parents of baptized teens who throw away their inehitance.
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Des
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John the Baptists parents never sinned while on earth unless you can find sin, walking in all the commandments.
As was John the Baptist himself who was filled with the Holy Spirit, even in His mother’s womb. That’s quite the statement there if you ask me.
**; and shall drink no wine nor strong drink: and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother’s womb. *
Revelations tells us that one hundred forty-four thousand Virgins never had a spot on them and never uttered one lie.
- for they are without spot before the throne of God.
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guanophore
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I recognize how you arrived at such a conclusion that Mary had other children. It is the same source where your misunderstandings of salvation emanate.
Actually, what has no basis here is your conclusion that believers are not subject to apostasy. Don’t your realize that one cannot fall away from something to which they do not hold? Never mind. It is off topic here.
Right!
I do worry, though, about the extent of your misundersatndings,a nd the eternal consequences for those. I also am concerned by your inability to recieve the teaching of the church. Even if you chose not to agree, it is concerning that you cannot even try to understand what is taught.
This is very true. You notice He did not go running after them, either, telling them they misunderstood.
You seem to be laboring under the misunderstanding that devotion to the Blessed Mother subtracts from Christ. On the contrary, she bids us to follow Him as she has done. Her soul acts as a magnifier, enhancing all our devotion to Him.
You are confusing veneration with the adoration that is due only to God. There is nothing wrong with honoring the work God has done in His saints.
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