Protestants and Mary

[elvisman]

Are you saying that if I’m not angry then you are bearing false witness? I’m not angry nor upset. I am not catholic nor ever have been. I have no reason to be angry. I am sad that you believe something that seems, from Scripture, to be quite wrong.

NOPE.
I’m saying that you are angry. That’s the whole reason you came here - to bach Catholics. Unfortunately, you are quite ignorant about what Jesus taught and what we believe in.

 

[elvisman]

Jesus seems to have founded HIS church. I doubt it’s the RCC in contrast to other Christian churches.

And this is the thrust or your problem - YOUR opinions and YOUR doubts.
WE rely on the truth (John 16:12-15) - and, in fact, the Pillar and Foundation of Truth (1 Tim. 3:15).

 

[rchapm77]

It’s not a problem with the Holy Spirit; it’s a problem with you and me and our ability to listen. That includes the leaders of all churches: no one listens purfectly … NO ONE.​

BTW, I don’t speak for anyone’s belief but my own. God will hold me accountable for me, not for you. Being accountable for myself is quite scary.

Amen

 

[Dokimas]

NOPE.
I’m saying that you are angry. That’s the whole reason you came here - to bach Catholics. Unfortunately, you are quite ignorant about what Jesus taught and what we believe in.

You may know Catholic doctrine, but you really have no clue about me and my motives. If your fellow Catholics are honest with you, it is you that sound angry at non-Catholics and not me toward your belief system.

 

[rchapm77]

An we in the Catholic Church can have our own opinions about certain things.
What Paul does NOT advocate is factions and splintering due to these differences of opinion. He believed that factions were useful only to weed out the bad and make known the true believers (1 Cor. 11:17-19).

The fruits of Protestantism are tens of thousands of constantly splintering sects.

You are right Paul, certainly would not advocate factions. Things seem to have really gotten out of hand with all the divisions.

 

[humble_maid]

You are right Paul, certainly would not advocate factions. Things seem to have really gotten out of hand with all the divisions.

At least we can agree on that. I would like to know how the reformation really helped? But that should probably be on a new thread.

 

[fbl9]

1Corintians 8:2 And if anyone thinks that he knows anything, he knows nothing yet as he ought to know./

this verse is in reference to gained knowledge not gifted knowledge.

​

I know what I believe but I’m not foolish enough to think I am always correct. I think it’s very dangerous for anyone to think anyone but God has all the correct answers.

truly then you can not say for certain that the Marian doctrines are incorrect,but it is only your opinion that they are.

1Co 13:12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.​

It’s not going to be until Heaven that we’ll know 100% of what is Truth.

There are many things i know but don’t understand just as there are many things i know and understand.

 

[fbl9]

Jesus seems to have founded HIS church. I doubt it’s the RCC in contrast to other Christian churcheS.

Yep Christ left us with a church that is floundering along unsure if it is truly teaching the truth…Note the s…you seem to imply that there is more than one true church.

 

[humble_maid]

When I say your church is wrong on some issues I’m denigrating your church and when you say my understanding is quit wrong, are you denigrating me? I assure you, while your intent, according to your logic, may be to denigrate me, I don’t feel at all denigrated. The burden of Truth is on God’s shoulders, not mine, yours or your church’s.

Fair enough Dokimas. I am glad you don’t feel denigrated, which by the way was not my intent. By examining scripture even from different points of view can only reveal more of the truth and speaking for myself I am more convinced that my church is authentic and true.

By the way God is the truth and it is up to Christ’s church to teach it to others. The only thing we could do is to believe it and follow the church or be content with ourselves as we are. God Bless.

 

[Dokimas]

Yep Christ left us with a church that is floundering along unsure if it is truly teaching the truth…Note the s…you seem to imply that there is more than one true church.

Only One Body (church) with One Head. He’s perfect; we’re imperfect and will be so until Heaven when we give up or mortality.​

The One church is not my church nor your church nor the one in Rome. It’s the Body of Christ.

 

[Dokimas]

Fair enough Dokimas. I am glad you don’t feel denigrated, which by the way was not my intent. By examining scripture even from different points of view can only reveal more of the truth and speaking for myself I am more convinced that my church is authentic and true.

By the way God is the truth and it is up to Christ’s church to teach it to others. The only thing we could do is to believe it and follow the church or be content with ourselves as we are. God Bless.

I didn’t think it was your intent; I was not my intent to denigrate your church.​

We are all called to spread the Gospel of Jesus to a lost and dieing world. We are called to love one another. We are called to not judge each other. We are called to carry one anothers burdens. We are called to help one another when we stray from the loving care of Jesus.

 

[Dokimas]

-
1Corintians 8:2 And if anyone thinks that he knows anything, he knows nothing yet as he ought to know./

this verse is in reference to gained knowledge not gifted knowledge.truly then you can not say for certain that the Marian doctrines are incorrect,but it is only your opinion that they are.There are many things i know but don’t understand just as there are many things i know and understand.

I can say that there is nothing I’ve read in the Bible and now read in the posts of many of those here who are part of the CC that have changed my mind.

 

[humble_maid]

I agree. However, a problem arises when people, especially a lot of Catholics, ascribe to Mary a higher position that which God intended to the point of even thinking that she is superior to God because she is His mother. Of course, in our world, a mother is always superior to the son. I know that that is not what the RCC teches, but unfortunately, that is how a lot of people, Catholics included, view it. That is why there is an accompanying danger in refering to Mary as the “Mother of God” although logically, she is.

Please excuse my delay; I have only now read your response to my post. Thank you for being honest. About the catholic’s position when it comes to the Blessed Mother, we by know means make her superior to God; though many would disagree. We are devoted to her as doting children such as myself, but Christ is always first; He is within me and all around me. She brings us closer to Him; who else can know Him better than the Father and His Mother.

I can assume that you place Christ first in your life; but how do you explain this to those who are jews or non-trinitarian christians. Are we as trinitarian christians idolizing Christ? Even Christ said that we should love God with all our heart, soul and mind. By loving Jesus it does not take away from the Father. The same is to the Holy Mother; by loving her it does not elevate her above Him. We love Mother Mary and so does God.

God Bless

 

[humble_maid]

I didn’t think it was your intent; I was not my intent to denigrate your church.​

We are all called to spread the Gospel of Jesus to a lost and dieing world.
We are called to love one another. We are called to not judge each other. We are called to carry one anothers burdens. We are called to help one another when we stray from the loving care of Jesus.

Dokimas, these are beautiful words and I believe you are sincere. Please tell me how are we to spread the Gospel of Jesus if we are so divided? You profess love of Christ and others yet do you love His Holy Mother? Why, then like so many protestants who diminish and even denigrate the image of His Holy Mother profess to know the gospel?

I believe that it is every individual’s responsibility to act charitable, loving, and peacable to one another regardless of our religion (or lack of it), ethnicity, political background. People should start living by higher moral standards clearly pointed out in the bible. Perhaps this is a way towards unification at least on a spiritual level.

God Bless

 

[bookgirl32]

Only One Body (church) with One Head. He’s perfect; we’re imperfect and will be so until Heaven when we give up or mortality.​

The One church is not my church nor your church nor the one in Rome. It’s the Body of Christ.

Is the Body of Christ the pillar also the pillar and foundation of truth (as the Bible says the Church is)?

And if it is, who exactly is really in the Body of Christ (and how do you know)? Because it would seem to me that in order for it to be the pillar and foundation of truth, there has to only be one truth supported by this pillar, not many conflicting ones. So it would seem that all the people in the Body that is this pillar should probably believe the same thing. So who exactly are the people that proclaim and believe the same (not similar with differences, but exactly the same) truth?

 

[Dokimas]

Dokimas, these are beautiful words and I believe you are sincere. Please tell me how are we to spread the Gospel of Jesus if we are so divided? You profess love of Christ and others yet do you love His Holy Mother? Why, then like so many protestants who diminish and even denigrate the image of His Holy Mother profess to know the gospel?

I believe that it is every individual’s responsibility to act charitable, loving, and peacable to one another regardless of our religion (or lack of it), ethnicity, political background. People should start living by higher moral standards clearly pointed out in the bible. Perhaps this is a way towards unification at least on a spiritual level.

God Bless

If I had known Mary I’m sure I’d have loved her as I love all Christians. Also, if you’ve read what I’ve said about her, I’ve said she’s an amazing example for all of us.​

We need to major on Jesus for He is the whole of the Gospel and not worry about the divisions. Love heals many wounds. Hatred makes many wounds.

 

[Dokimas]

Is the Body of Christ the pillar also the pillar and foundation of truth (as the Bible says the Church is)?

And if it is, who exactly is really in the Body of Christ (and how do you know)? Because it would seem to me that in order for it to be the pillar and foundation of truth, there has to only be one truth supported by this pillar, not many conflicting ones. So it would seem that all the people in the Body that is this pillar should probably believe the same thing. So who exactly are the people that proclaim and believe the same (not similar with differences, but exactly the same) truth?

Before I can answer this question, could you point me to the verses that says the church is the pillar and foundation of truth. I am aware that the Bible says Jesus IS the Truth.

 

[Bengoshi]

WRONG.
Whereas we are all stained by Original Sin - babied have not SINNED.
Try again.

---

PS - That’s not Why it’s called Original sin. It is called Original sin because it truly was the original sin committed by Adam and Eve.

Are you that dense? As far as we are concerned, the baby has not sinned of course, but as far as God is concerned “all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.” That is why all of humanity deserves eternal damnation in Hell. That apart from the grace of God given through the death of His Son on the cross, we cannot be saved. THAT IS A BASIC FOUNDATIONAL TRUTH THAT ALL CHRISTIANS SHOULD HOLD ON TO. Otherwise, Jesus would not have needed to die a horrible death!

P.S. Your condescending and sarcastic attitude is NOT appreciated.

 

[Bengoshi]

And Mary was in him just the same—only she was made righteous from conception

Mary was in Him (or He was in her) when she assented to Coceive and carry Jesus in her womb. It was her acceptance by faith that made her righteous and just in the sight of God. However, before that act of the will, she could not have been made sinless. We are saved by grace through faith (Eph. 2:8-9), same thing with Mary.

 

[elvisman]

Are you that dense? As far as we are concerned, the baby has not sinned of course, but as far as God is concerned “all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.” That is why all of humanity deserves eternal damnation in Hell. That apart from the grace of God given through the death of His Son on the cross, we cannot be saved. THAT IS A BASIC FOUNDATIONAL TRUTH THAT ALL CHRISTIANS SHOULD HOLD ON TO. Otherwise, Jesus would not have needed to die a horrible death!

P.S. Your condescending and sarcastic attitude is NOT appreciated.

I’m not dense at all - you’re an angry person.

First of all - NO - babies DON’T sin - even in the eyes of God. Original sin doesn’t mean that you have personally sinned. It means that we inherited sin and a sinful nature - not that we ourselves have personally sinned.
Don’t assume people are dense when it is you who has it dead wrong.

Secondly - you don’t understand Romans 3:10, 23 to save your life. I already explained to you that this is referring Psalm 14, where it says, "The fool (the evil) says in his heart, ‘There is no God. They are corrupt…there is none that does good.’” Later in the same Psalm, we hear that “God is present in the company of the “righteous.”**
**How can “none” be righteous when it clearly says God is in the company of the righteous?? **

---

HYPERBOLE, my angry friend - HYPERBOLE. Read the Scriptures in context or don’t read them at all.

---

St. Peter spoke well of you when he spoke of St. Pauls letters:
"In them there are some things hard to understand that the ignorant and unstable distort to their own destruction, just as they do the other scriptures."