Protestants and non Catholics who do you hold to teach you scripture infallibly?

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kalt said:
I know it because I accept the authority of the Church. The Church was founded by Jesus, so I know that it is right.
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In other words, you know that the Catholic church is incapable of speaking without error in matters of faith and morals because the Catholic church says so.

Hmm.

What if your denomination (and exclusively your denomination) is not (in entirety) the church founded by Jesus? What if the logic “my church was founded by Jesus therefore it is incapable of being incorrect” is faulty logic?

Just because your denomination asserts that it is incapable of being incorrect doesn’t mean that it is so.
kalt said:
Again, you know that your doctor could have been wrong all along. You put your trust in him, but you weren’t sure. He could have had the diagnosis wrong. Surgery might not have been the best option. He might have made a mistake in surgery. You made the best guess you could, based on what you know (from your experience, the experiences of those you know, and probably from reading what you could on the condition and the doctor you chose.)
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Not quite. My doctor is capable of error true. But he is also an authority in his field. We trust authorities to be correct even if they are capable of error.

If I made the “best guess” in this case, then what you are saying is that life reduces to “best guesses”.

The point is that life revolves around trusting authorities who know more about a subject area than we do. I do not have to believe that my doctor is incapable of being incorrect in order to trust my life with my doctor. Neither do you.

The same logic holds in our spiritual lives.
kalt said:
Now about your religion. If you know that all of those things could go wrong with your spiritual leaders opinions, too, how do you know that you have it right?
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Well the question “how do you know that you have it right” is a quite substantial (and interesting I might say) question. How do you know for certain that any of the common knowledge that you hold is correct.

How do you know for certain say that Antarctica is a very cold place and has penguins? What if everything you read is a conspiracy and incorrect? The fact is that you don’t know for certain that Antarctica is a very cold place and has penguins. You trust the observations of those who have been to Antarctica (even though they are capable of being incorrect) and have reported on what they observed.

Funny how life just seems to work with folks that are capable of being incorrect isn’t it.
 
mozart-250 said:
In other words, you know that the Catholic church is incapable of speaking without error in matters of faith and morals because the Catholic church says so.

Hmm.

What if your denomination (and exclusively your denomination) is not (in entirety) the church founded by Jesus? What if the logic “my church was founded by Jesus therefore it is incapable of being incorrect” is faulty logic?

Not quite. My doctor is capable of error true. But he is also an authority in his field. We trust authorities to be correct even if they are capable of error.

Well the question “how do you know that you have it right” is a quite substantial (and interesting I might say) question. How do you know for certain that any of the common knowledge that you hold is correct.

How do you know for certain say that Antarctica is a very cold place and has penguins? What if everything you read is a conspiracy and incorrect? The fact is that you don’t know for certain that Antarctica is a very cold place and has penguins. You trust the observations of those who have been to Antarctica and have reported on what they observed.

The issue is that there is some level of trust in all applied human knowledge and that we don’t live in a world of conspiracies.

Besides, this same question can be flipped. Just because your denomination asserts that it is incapable of being incorrect does not mean it is so.
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Amen. Is it just me or does it seem that Protestants do a bit better job at admitting faults than many Catholics on this site?
 
Swan said:
Jesus said his church would not err, however, 2,000 year have passed and the original church has been divided many, many times.

What an assertion you have just made. **Swan can you prove such many divisions by the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church. ****Because the Roman Cathoic church can prove her existance for the last 2 millenium, without unbroken succession from the apostles. **

The assertion that today’s Catholic church is the same church founded by Jesus is simply that, an assertion.

I hope you can prove your assertion by facts, because I am sure waiting to hear about the many divisions of the Catholic faith, by you. Believe me Roman Catholic Church is not going to state her succession from the apostles if she cant prove it. Can you prove your assertion that she isnt?

Without Jesus here to confirm that this is the case it is simply a claim that can not be substantiated.

Its easy to call on the divine like this when you are in doubt. Well Swan, Jesus is here in the Roman Catholic church. Jesus being present body, blood, soul and divinity, in the Catholic church proves Jesus’s promise to his Church, “I am with you always”, “I will never forsake you”, “I will be with you until the end of the age”. Swan your not calling Jesus a liar, are you? I believe Jesus has kept his Promise and is faithful to his Church.

It is indeed possible that one of the churches that separated from Rome hundreds of years ago is the true chruch.

Swan, please, Their is only one faith, one Lord, one baptism, one church. How can you divide the body of Jesus Christ, when the body of Jesus Christ is the Church here on earth.

Apostolic succession proves nothing other than a continuing priesthood in the same institution - continued by man, it says nothing about that insitution’s continued teaching of, or possession of, truth.

Apostolic succession proves no division among the Catholic Popes and Bishops., The priesthood was instituted by Jesus Christ himself not man. The Catholic church possesses the “FULLNESS OF TRUTH”. Do you need this explained?

Further, anyone can claim to be infallible when it comes to issues such as religion since there is no “proof” that can be offerred other than opinion.

So when the Roman Catholic church, her Popes, and Bishops, came together and canonized the books of the bible , to which is the book you read today, or a version of the Holy bible. Tell me what other church or man can infallibly put together a bible, being the inspired word of God? Would it not be logical that to do such a thing, must take place WITHOUT ERROR=INFALLIBILITY.

To state that one is infallible is, indeed, a perfect way to stifle inquiry and discussion.

I disagree with your statement, to state one is infallible better be able to back it up, because to dare to make such a statement draws much inquiry, and much discussion for clarification, as we are doing here.

The church is the body of Christ, made up of all believers and God works within us all. 🙂
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**True there is only one body of Jesus Christ on earth his church. But which one do you think has the body, blood, soul and divinity of Jesus Christ in their Church and is believed by all her believers. Jesus is not divided.

Matthew 7:21
"Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, 10 but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven.
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Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name? Did we not drive out demons in your name? Did we not do mighty deeds in your name?’
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Then I will declare to them solemnly, ‘I never knew you. 11 Depart from me, you evildoers.’
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12 “Everyone who listens to these words of mine and acts on them will be like a wise man who built his house on rock.
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The rain fell, the floods came, and the winds blew and buffeted the house. But it did not collapse; it had been set solidly on rock.
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And everyone who listens to these words of mine but does not act on them will be like a fool who built his house on sand.
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The rain fell, the floods came, and the winds blew and buffeted the house. And it collapsed and was completely ruined.”

Swan, The Roman Catholic Church can prove that, she was built on the foundation of Jesus and Peter, where the Present Pope and all prior to him can trace themselves all the way back to Peter our first Pope, THE ROCK. And prove it today.**
 
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