Protestants are not a different "religion" from Catholics

[CalChristian]

Understanding comes from perspective. If we accept that Christianity is a religion then all baptized in the trinitarian formula are part of the Christian religion

So, since Protestantism is consider a DIFFERENT religion, is your point that no Protestant is ever baptized in the trinitarian formula?

In MY opinion, if Protestants are CHRISTIAN, then doesn’t it make sense to regard them as Christian - rather than some other religion?

You said, “we accept that all baptized in the trinitarian formula are part of the Christian religion.” Then, are you defending hundreds of millions of persons baptized in the trinitarian formula being regarded as of a different religion?

I AGREE with you that those Protestants that don’t regard Catholics as “Christians” (and I’ve not met any of such - although I’m sure they exist), but then Catholics not regarding Protestants as Christians hardly seems like a sound rebuttal or response. IF you are offended by being called a different religion, why be offended when Protestants feel the same way?

Thank you!

Just my perspective…

.

 

[CopticChristian]

So, since Protestantism is consider a DIFFERENT religion, is your point that no Protestant is ever baptized in the trinitarian formula?

In MY opinion, if Protestants are CHRISTIAN, then doesn’t it make sense to regard them as Christian - rather than some other religion?

You said, “we accept that all baptized in the trinitarian formula are part of the Christian religion.” Then, are you defending hundreds of millions of persons baptized in the trinitarian formula being regarded as of a different religion?

I AGREE with you that those Protestants that don’t regard Catholics as “Christians” (and I’ve not met any of such - although I’m sure they exist), but then Catholics not regarding Protestants as Christians hardly seems like a sound rebuttal or response. IF you are offended by being called a different religion, why be offended when Protestants feel the same way?

Thank you!

Just my perspective…

.

The point is that the OHCAC teaches and I accept that all that are baptized in the trinitarian formula are Christian. This would exclude some as you might imagine. There are those that baptize in the name of Jesus and then there are those that change the terms like the LDS. All baptized in the trinitarian formula are Christian.

I am not offended by ignorance. Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. Those that speak falsely or wrongly do not offend me for it is ignorance. Throwing stones do not offend me when the stones are thrown by an unknowing ignorant. Casting words do not offend me when the words are formulated from ignorance.

If Jesus is Lord of all then He is Lord of History. To not know what the Lord has done is to claim ignorance of His Truths…for it is written…Jesus, the same yesterday, today and tommorrow…if there is a today there must have been a yesterday…if there is but one Lord, One Faith One Baptism…then these were the same yesterday, today and will be the same tommorrow…If the Church is the Body of Christ…then that Body must be the same Yesterday, today and tommorrow…

Those that remain ignorant cast ignorant stones. Those that remain ignorant cast ignorant aspersions…this does not offend me…it saddens me.

 

[CalChristian]

I accept that all that are baptized in the trinitarian formula are Christian. All baptized in the trinitarian formula are Christian.

I agree.

Then they are CHRISTIAN, and not some other religion.

Calling them a different religion is thus incorrect (if not offensive).

.

 

[CopticChristian]

I agree.

Then they are CHRISTIAN, and not some other religion.

Calling them a different religion is thus incorrect (if not offensive).

.

This is what I said. The tragedy is that there is no Protestant Church. There is no one Protestant that speaks for all Protestants and therefore the actions of those that act like they are of another religion are another religion. From the Catholic perspective we accept those that are baptized as Christians in the family. Every family has prodigal sons.

In summary perspective dictates the answer. From the OHCAC side Protestants are Christian by their baptism and beliefs as they coincide with the teaching from which they sprang, the OHCAC and when they operate in defiance and teach false doctrine they act as if they were another religion.

From the Protestant side there are those that believe, teach, act as if they were another religion and the OHCAC accepts them as Christian by their Baptism and beliefs where they coincide with the OHCAC.

 

[fred_conty]

Webster’s dictionary (1990) gives the following definition for religion.

1. belief in the worship of God or gods.
2. specific system of belief, worship, etc., often involving a code of ethics.

According to the first definition, almost anything would fit. So it dosen’t seem to me
that this is what we are discussing here.

According to the second definition, I believe we do share some things in common with
other Christians, and some very important and essential ones at that.

But we would have to compare the differences we have, and how important these are,
in order to determine if we are so far apart as to not fit together in common within the
second definition. That is within the three mentioned: 1. belief, 2. worship, 3. ethics,
4. other differences.

For myself I find the following as defining:

1. Belief: AUTHORITY of the church. The authority is the main issue seen as historically true. If a person accepts the authority of the Church, headed by the Pope, then all the other issues fall gently into place. E.g., the Church upholds Mary as the Mother of God and worthy of our deepest consideration–which ends misunderstandings about Mary. E.g., the Church upholds all life and considers contraception as a grave evil to closing off life, and so Catholic couples who deliberately choose to use artificial birth control are not in union with Jesus. And the best example–the Church presents for our nourishment
   and our adoration, the Eucharist, Jesus Christ, Truly Present Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity, to be one with Him on earth as those who walked with Him in Galilee.
2. Worship: The Holy Mass, essence of WORSHIP. The Catholic church has songs, hymns, psalms, 3 Bible passage readings, additional prayers, and preaching of the Gospel as preparation for the great offering. Then comes the offering of prayers and gifts, then the great change of the bread and wine into the Body and Blood of Jesus, to be offered to God the Father for you and all people for their salvation and the greater glory of God. And the final partaking of the Lamb of God, as the Apostles did at the last supper, to seal the love covenant between God and ourselves. The greatest act of worship on earth that could posssibly be given and more acceptable to the Father than any other.
3. Ethics: The HARD Gospel: Abortion, contraception, divorce, purity and integrety of the body, homosexuality, social inequalities, human rights.
4. Other: The SOFT Gospel: Hospitals, schools, orphanages, nursing, social work, unwed mothers, and great numbers of dedicated spiritual people as nuns, brothers, priests, who give their lives to Jesus for the benefit of others.

Just a thought.

 

[Marybeloved]

Hi MB Again ,just how are his graces channeled is what we are talking about.I believe sins are forgiven by His blood , past, present and to come, and it’s part of the gospel commission, not hearing sins .Is not Jesus alive and well on planet earth ? Is he not alive in your heart ? Do you not speak to Him ? Can He not hear you ? The bible talks of reconciliation , restitution ,confessing “faults” one to another " , but not needing a priest and sacrament for after rebirth sins. What Christ can not do is to forgive someone not born again, or to one who does not invite Him “in”. People need to submit to the gospel ,the gospel you and I are to preach , sometimes with words. And what is our gospel ? That Christ died for our sins and wants to give us life, and more abundantly, and that, eternal.Can you not guarantee forgiveness of sins to a lost soul if they place their trust in Christ for that ? Do you not have scriptural authority for that ? Do you not have your churches authority for that ? I tell you the same method of initial forgiveness from the Father is the same method of forgiveness forever thereafter. But perhaps there lies the problem, for even in that you need a “sacrament” and usually a priest(to be born-again/forgiven ).

Hello, my friend. Do you know what lies behind the Catholic sacraments? FAITH is exactly why Catholics go to confession! It’s the reason we’ll continue to receive the Blessed Eucharist! You ask me about scriptural authority- Who told you that Catholics don’t pray to God, speak to him, ask for mercy? Catholics makes use of all Christ’s gifts that he has given us, not just some. Why do you assume that because we take advantage of ALL God’s gifts, that somehow we don’t trust God? I speak to him countless times everyday! But you know what else I do? I TRUST him, I have 100% faith in his words, declarations and promises!

-FAITH that when he promised the Church “Whoever’s sins you forgive they are forgiven them” he wasn’t lying!
-That he established his gifts for the benefit of all his church, “even to the end of the age”.
-That when the frail, weak minister pronounces the words of forgiveness in the faith the Church has in God’s promises, they are forgiven in heaven, just like Christ promised! That is an exercise in total unflinching faith in Christ’s words and complete trust in his promises.
-That I eat his body and drink his blood and have life in me- exactly according to the words of my Christ!

I’ll tell you something my friend, it’s impossible to live catholic sacramental life without complete trust and faith in Jesus Christ and his unbreakable promises. We don’t twist his words and gloss over them when they are difficult for natural man to accept! If he says that when his ministers forgive, the sins are forgiven, guess what? We believe it! When he says the bread is his flesh, the wine his blood, and gives us life, you know what? That’s exactly what Catholics believe! When he says to Peter thou art Peter and upon this rock…we believe it! When he says I will give you keys of my kingdom, whatever you bind/loose is bound/loosed in heaven, yep! We believe it!

You need to undertake a genuine study of catholic belief and practice for yourself rather than just accepting the protestant assumptions about it. You can start with our Catechism, it’s available online for free. Just learn what we really believe first, before accusing us and attempting to “correct” us on our “errors”.

Peace!

 

[jlhargus]

You said, “we accept that all baptized in the trinitarian formula are part of the Christian religion.” Then, are you defending hundreds of millions of persons baptized in the trinitarian formula being regarded as of a different religion?

JL: When I was belonged to a Protestant nondenomiation Baptist was a different religion, Methodist was a different religion etc. etc… They maybe Christian but they are not of the same FAITH RELIGION.

 

[CopticChristian]

Webster’s dictionary (1990) gives the following definition for religion.

1. belief in the worship of God or gods.
2. specific system of belief, worship, etc., often involving a code of ethics.

According to the first definition, almost anything would fit. So it dosen’t seem to me
that this is what we are discussing here.

According to the second definition, I believe we do share some things in common with
other Christians, and some very important and essential ones at that.

But we would have to compare the differences we have, and how important these are,
in order to determine if we are so far apart as to not fit together in common within the
second definition. That is within the three mentioned: 1. belief, 2. worship, 3. ethics,
4. other differences.

For myself I find the following as defining:

1. Belief: AUTHORITY of the church. The authority is the main issue seen as historically true. If a person accepts the authority of the Church, headed by the Pope, then all the other issues fall gently into place. E.g., the Church upholds Mary as the Mother of God and worthy of our deepest consideration–which ends misunderstandings about Mary. E.g., the Church upholds all life and considers contraception as a grave evil to closing off life, and so Catholic couples who deliberately choose to use artificial birth control are not in union with Jesus. And the best example–the Church presents for our nourishment
   and our adoration, the Eucharist, Jesus Christ, Truly Present Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity, to be one with Him on earth as those who walked with Him in Galilee.
2. Worship: The Holy Mass, essence of WORSHIP. The Catholic church has songs, hymns, psalms, 3 Bible passage readings, additional prayers, and preaching of the Gospel as preparation for the great offering. Then comes the offering of prayers and gifts, then the great change of the bread and wine into the Body and Blood of Jesus, to be offered to God the Father for you and all people for their salvation and the greater glory of God. And the final partaking of the Lamb of God, as the Apostles did at the last supper, to seal the love covenant between God and ourselves. The greatest act of worship on earth that could posssibly be given and more acceptable to the Father than any other.
3. Ethics: The HARD Gospel: Abortion, contraception, divorce, purity and integrety of the body, homosexuality, social inequalities, human rights.
4. Other: The SOFT Gospel: Hospitals, schools, orphanages, nursing, social work, unwed mothers, and great numbers of dedicated spiritual people as nuns, brothers, priests, who give their lives to Jesus for the benefit of others.

Just a thought.

Your Church my Church believes and teaches that unity starts with worship in the Eucharist/Christ. All things we believe flow from Eucharist/Christ. Without common worship we cannot unite with anyone. This is the common thread that unites Oriental, Orhodox and Catholic. This is the only Gospel. There is no other gospel hard, squisshy, feeling good, kinda like it or otherwise.

 

[Swiss_Guy]

There is one true religion-the Catholic Church.

However, Protestants have an “imperfect communion” with that Church despite not being united to it in body (but united in the soul).

All Trinitarian communities are apart of the Christian religion (Christianity).

The true Christian religion is the Catholic Church.

Other communities aren’t the true religion, but they are united to it bc of the Trinitarian belief/baptism, and therefore are considered Christian and apart of the same religion, despite not being the true religion.

It reminds of how non-Catholics can be saved, but every one who is saved is Catholic.

 

[david_ruiz]

There is one true religion-the Catholic Church.

However, Protestants have an “imperfect communion” with that Church despite not being united to it in body (but united in the soul).

 

[Marybeloved]

Hi Swiss Guy. Sorry, but this is balogni. Not part of the body, but part of the soul ? Sad part is I think I know what you mean, but it is still balogni. I don’t even want to say unscriptural, cause of scriptures sanctity. CC has added a lot of doctrine since the foundation of the Body . Just look at the apostles creed , once quite universal /catholic and uniting all the Body .Heck, now we have many things that divide us .The Creed is not enough anymore is it.

You can thank the Protestant Reformers for that .

Peace!

 

[John_oxios]

I think it’s more accurate to say the Protestant faith is not the Catholic faith than to use the term “religions” to explain the differences. I do not believe that those who hold to the same truths of the creeds can in any way be genuinely said to belong to different religions ;

*One God in three natures, Jesus is one divine person with two natures (human and divine); he was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered, was crucified and died to save us, rose again, ascended, went to heaven, shall come again as King and judge, in the Holy Spirit, forgiveness of sins, life everlasting, one holy church of believers etc *

Those are fundamentals that 99% of all Christians believe, and that’s what makes us a particular religion called Christianity, set apart from the rest of the world. Protestants, excepting JWs and Mormorns, are not of a different religion from us :nope:. The church even says they are part of her (the one true church) by virtue of that essential faith and baptism, though they are separated. We can call them and the Orthodox different communions, or faiths, but it’s misleading to say they are a different religion. In fact the church forbids us from calling ex-Protestants coming into the Church “converts” like we do people from other religions like Judaism/Islam etc- We call them only candidates. My two cents.

Then why not become Catholic?

 

[CopticChristian]

Swiss Guy;8553054:

There is one true religion-the Catholic Church.

Hi Swiss Guy. Sorry, but this is balogni. Not part of the body, but part of the soul ? Sad part is I think I know what you mean, but it is still balogni. I don’t even want to say unscriptural, cause of scriptures sanctity. CC has added a lot of doctrine since the foundation of the Body . Just look at the apostles creed , once quite universal /catholic and uniting all the Body .Heck, now we have many things that divide us .The Creed is not enough anymore is it.

You do good research. You agree there is an Apostle’s Creed. Was it written by and for the time of the Apostles and why?

I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic Church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and life everlasting. Amen

You say that this was enough. The Holy Catholic Church is what was believed and united. If you profess this then it is enough.

Division comes from acts of individuals contrary to this Creed including believing in the OHCAC.

 

[fred_conty]

Your Church my Church believes and teaches that unity starts with worship in the Eucharist/Christ. All things we believe flow from Eucharist/Christ. Without common worship we cannot unite with anyone. This is the common thread that unites Oriental, Orhodox and Catholic. This is the only Gospel. There is no other gospel hard, squisshy, feeling good, kinda like it or otherwise.

Your forgot to add a word…IMO

 

[Dymphna82]

Anglicans are some of the most interesting Protestants to talk to. They have more in common with Catholicism than the rest too. I really like them. At the same time, Episcopalian/Anglican is a different religion.

 

[david_ruiz]

You can thank the Protestant Reformers for that .

Peace!

Hi MB I know what you mean. But from my point ,what did we add to the creed ? The only one that stands out perhaps is sola scriptura. Anything else ?

 

[Swiss_Guy]

Swiss Guy;8553054:

There is one true religion-the Catholic Church.

Hi Swiss Guy. Sorry, but this is balogni. Not part of the body, but part of the soul ? Sad part is I think I know what you mean, but it is still balogni. I don’t even want to say unscriptural, cause of scriptures sanctity. CC has added a lot of doctrine since the foundation of the Body . Just look at the apostles creed , once quite universal /catholic and uniting all the Body .Heck, now we have many things that divide us .The Creed is not enough anymore is it.

For you it might be, but it is true.

It has come to understand more doctrine–the Church keeps learning (John 16:13).

Also, we have a different understanding of the Body of Christ.

The things that divide us are from the Reformers.

 

[Swiss_Guy]

Hi MB I know what you mean. But from my point ,what did we add to the creed ? The only one that stands out perhaps is sola scriptura. Anything else ?

I’d say it’s more of what the Reformers took away from the Apostle’s Creed, not so much what they added. Although not everything is in the creed. Although everything is if you go in depth about every single topic it touches.

 

[david_ruiz]

david ruiz;8556043:

You do good research. You agree there is an Apostle’s Creed. Was it written by and for the time of the Apostles and why?

I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic Church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and life everlasting. Amen

You say that this was enough. The Holy Catholic Church is what was believed and united. If you profess this then it is enough.

Division comes from acts of individuals contrary to this Creed including believing in the OHCAC.

Not written by apostles .Formulated thru first four centuries of western church. “Holy,catholic” were adjectives for Church , not the name of the church.

1. I believe in God the Father, Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth:
2. And in Jesus Christ, his only begotten Son, our Lord:
3. Who was conceived by the Holy Ghost, born of the Virgin Mary:
4. Suffered under Pontius Pilate; was crucified, dead and buried: He descended into hell:
5. The third day he rose again from the dead:
6. He ascended into heaven, and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty:
7. From thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead:
8. I believe in the Holy Ghost:
9. I believe in the holy catholic church: the communion of saints:
10. The forgiveness of sins:

1l. The resurrection of the body:

1. And the life everlasting. Amen.

 

[david_ruiz]

I’d say it’s more of what the Reformers took away from the Apostle’s Creed, not so much what they added. Although not everything is in the creed. Although everything is if you go in depth about every single topic it touches.

Oh what did we take away ? I see 12 points to the creed that are believed by Chrsitians.That you have to go in depth is indicative of the problem . A lot like the OT and the “depth” that evolved in adition to the original law.