Hi, David Ruiz,
Honest, David, after all of the confusion you have deomonstrated over Catholic doctrine, do you really want to dabble in Orthodoxy, too?
Let me see if I can give you some clarification on a couple of items…
Can you be Catholic and not believe in Papal doctrine ? In fact with such dialogues I have heard good arguments showing that unity that can be had , without such heirarchy /papal government/Vicar as shown by the Orthodox faith.
No, Daivid. And, the reason for this is that Christ founded His Church on Peter and promised the Holy Spirit would protect it from teaching a lie. “Papal doctrine” is from the authority that Christ gave Peter when Christ told him, “…WHATEVER you bind is bound, WHATEVER is losed is losed…” So my question to you is what part of WHATEVER are you having a problem with?
Ultimately ‘good’ arguments can be had on any street corner with two guys long on opinion and short on fact. A hierarch was established by the early Church in Acts 6 - when the Apostles established the position of Deacon, Here is an authorative reference on the hierarchy:
vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p123a9p4.htm The idea that it is the Truth that will set you free (John 8:32) no every flighty opinion. And, what this means is that there is an objective standard given to us by Christ that we can all look at: do you love God with all your heart - and if so, what are you doing with your prayer life? do you love your neighbor as yourself - and, if so, what are you doing with your community life?
Departure can be partial ,error can be partial .The 7 Churches in Revelations shows that . At what point do we extinguish the Lampstand , don’t know .Certainly some say Catholic Church has gone too far .I would NEVER say 100 %. For sure many saints are alive and well in Her .I feel when you change the gospel, how one is saved ,born again, that is critical.
Not quite, David. Notice the ‘lampstand’ and how it is used for the Church at Ephesus. Here is the verse Rev 2:1-7
1 “To the angel of the church in Ephesus,* write this: “The one who holds the seven stars in his right hand and walks in the midst of the seven gold lampstands says this: 2“I know your works, your labor, and your endurance, and that you cannot tolerate the wicked; you have tested those who call themselves apostles but are not, and discovered that they are impostors.* 3Moreover, you have endurance and have suffered for my name, and you have not grown weary. 4Yet I hold this against you: you have lost the love you had at first. 5Realize how far you have fallen. Repent, and do the works you did at first. Otherwise, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place, unless you repent.**
There is nothing here about a ‘partial’ removal. There is no indication that the lampstand will be lowered by 12 inches now and a threat of having more removed if they do not improve in Ephesus! “I will come to you and REMOVE YOUR LAMPSTAND…” The lampstand is either there or it isn’t.
The teachings of the Catholic Church are 100% in conformity with God’s message. We know this because we believe Christ is God - and He can neither deceive or be deceived. Now, these teachings have gone way too far for the 40,000+ Protestant groups all shouting that their man-made religions and their traditions are superior to any one else. But, here we are seeing doctrinal chaos as each competing group claims its interpretation of Scripture is the accurate version.
You are right to wonder about the consequences of changing the Gospel. Take a moment and look at just two examples: John 6 where Christ said that if we do not eat His Flesh we will not have life in us - and this was rejected by the Jews who walked out on Christ - and also by today’s Protestants. Take John 20 where Christ said that He gave the power to forgive sin to His Apostles - and this is rejected by Protestants who claim we are to go to God for forgiveness. Now, imagine removing inspired books of the Bible - do you think that qualifies as ‘…changing the Gospel…’?
Yes! Yes! Yes ? What do you mean ? How are you saved ? If you know how, how can assurance be anathema? If God is indeed God then He is almighty and more than capable of preventing a total apostasy.
St Paul worries that after having preached the Gospel he becomes a castaway (1Cor 9:27). This does not sound like someone blowing the ‘Once Saved Always Saved’ trumpet. These are the thoughts of a man, working with the Grace of God to remain faithful to Christ.
God is indeed all powerful - and He created you and me without our willful approval - but, as St. Augustine says, He will not save us without our will. God respects the free will He gave to each of us. And, that means we are perfectly free to reject the Love of God through sin.
God bless
- not to ‘buy’ our salvation - but to carry the Love of Christ to our fellow man.
