Protestants: Could you please do us all a favor??

[Memaw]

I’ve seen that as well. And the thing is, there’s no charity in it. How any Catholic could justify using those words is beyond me. But if you ever question it or become offended as a Protestant they try and defend the phrase by saying “well, sometimes the truth is not easy to hear”

I think the problem is that you are running into converts from the evangelical side of Protestantism. It’s really important for them to believe they have done the right thing in converting so they have to poke holes and belittle the Protestant faith as much as they can. Unfortunately, there is some popular apologists in the Catholic Church who come up with those key phrases. 30,000+ denominations is one they love to use. Another one is “mirror worshiping” which many evangelical converts love to accuse the Protestants of doing.

I personally feel the apologists need to dial it back, just teach the Catholic faith and stop trying to teach by showing how wrong the other side is.

Just my two cents…

I understand that the 30.000(or more), comes from a protestant source, so you’ll have to take that up with them.

 

[Memaw]

Excellent point (about the evangelical converts). The do seem to be among the most dogmatic and argumentative posters. (Certainly not all or even most evangelical converts fall into this category).

The reason I’m here is because I am interested in Catholicism. I start RCIA in a couple weeks. I have no idea if I will convert but I really do have an open mind. However, when I see attacks on Protestants I instinctively respond (or just leave). I’ve learned to ignore many of the baiting posts (the names may change, but the song remains the same–“Protestants, don’t you agree that your Church sucks and if you don’t agree that your Church sucks, explain why it doesn’t suck”)

If I ever convert it would be because the Holy Spirit convicted me that I should. Not because someone debated me into submission. I’m here because I’ve known (and attended Bible studies) with Catholics who were outstanding Christians. I respect almost everyone on the board, including the most dogmatic AND those who continually post the “Protestants, don’t you agree that…” posts. They are sincere. They may well be far better Christians that I. However, I’m not likely to be persuaded by their rhetoric and I doubt others are either.

On the other hand… I used to attend a non-denominational Bible study with my Platoon Commander in the Marine Corps. He was an outstanding Christian, and outstanding Catholic (I assume based on the way he lived his life). Despite the fact that he was Catholic and I describe myself as an evangelical fundamentalist, he and I never disagreed on issues of theology. There certainly were differences, but they weren’t important. The issues we faced, with living holy lives (or at least making some semblance of an effort to do so) in obediance to God’s Word were clear and it didn’t matter whether we were Catholic or Protestant. Obediance is far more important that theology.

I’m here because of the type of Christian Captain Franklin was, not because he won any debate with me over our theological differences.

End of rant.

Theology and obedience go hand in hand. What would be the sense of knowing the Truth if one doesn’t embrace it?

 

[Memaw]

I understand pride when I see it. And, yet I have not had to take membership classes for Satanism.

Thats because his path is wide and easy to follow.

 

[Memaw]

As a protestant (although my church steadfastly disagrees that we are “protesting” anything) I unfortunately have to agree with you. The lack of original thought or scholarship among Protestants is appalling. We say that Catholics are hide-bound by tradition but let me tell you, hearing vitually the same 5 songs, 3 specials and then sermon for years on end is really starting to get on my nerves. The only thing that changes is the flower arrangement on the alter.
I recently started doing some serious Bible study and research into church history (Catholic and Protestant) and I am learning a lot of very discouraging and disappointing things.

Keep studying, the Truth will set you free.

 

[emeraldcoast]

I didn’t see your post. Can you provide a link? The links above aren’t to posts by you. ???

Edit -

I did a search and found this

"I am sure that someone on the board will tell me that I am wrong if I give you the wrong information…

An EMOHC is a “normal” person(not an ordained person like a priest or deacon) that is able to give out communion during Mass when the priest needs help. My understanding also is that the EMOHC will also bring communion to the shut-ins and nursing homes–stuff like that.

Peace!"

Is that the post you’re complainging about. Buried in a thread that was addressed to non-Catholics?!

You are correct. People help out as EM’s, and they do take communion to people who can’t get to Mass.

You already knew the answer–and you knew you knew–so what’s the deal?

You have your pat on the back from a Catholic for getting it right.

Happy Sunday.

Blessings to you, Kalt. Thank you for taking the time to review the post. I have been corrected before on this forum for assuming something about the Catholic Church, so I was looking for reassurance from a Catholic that the information was correct. Thank you for taking the time to do so.

God Bless!

 

[Memaw]

Blessings to you, Kalt. Thank you for taking the time to review the post. I have been corrected before on this forum for assuming something about the Catholic Church, so I was looking for reassurance from a Catholic that the information was correct. Thank you for taking the time to do so.

God Bless!

As I understand it an EMOHC must take some classes and then be commissioned by the Bishop to be able to administer Holy Communion to anyone.

 

[emeraldcoast]

Somehow I find it decietful that someone would come to Catholic Answers forum and ask for non catholic answers.
Does anyone else see the irony in that.
Well obviously if you are here you are looking for answers so I wish you the best you have come to the right place. You might also try the Caticism of the Catholic Church you can find it at vatican.va. There you will find what all catholics are supposed to believe. But we are not perfect either we are also continually learning.
May god Bless you all on your journey
your humble servant, jim

Are you implying the original Catholic poster (OP) was being deceitful? I am not sure why this question even showed up in this part of the forum - many non-Catholics had no idea what the poster was referring to in his post. Was the motivation for posting this question to highlight the ignorance of non-Catholics on Catholic issues? What would be the point of that?

I was looking for feedback and dialogue on the issues in the post. As I have stated previously, posting information/opinions on Catholic issues from non-Catholic sources can often get one chastised on this board, although it seems Catholic opinions/information about non-Catholic faiths are accepted without any question. I am on this forum to share information about my faith and learn from my Catholic, non-Catholic, and non-Christian brothers and sisters. Sometimes that purpose is lost in the fervor of some on this board trying to “lead me to the light” of the RC Church. I don’t believe this is called the “How do I become a Catholic?” Forum or “Please do your best to cut down Non-Catholics” Forum, but that is just my two cents…

 

[Julianna]

I don’t think RCIA is the best place for a Protestant to learn all about Catholicism because at this time in history, there is no consistency in the way RCIA is taught at all the different parishes.

When my husband and I went through RCIA in 2003-2004, the lead teacher was an ex-Protestant college professor who compiled a team of teachers who taught liturgy, the Bible, etc. There were discussions and homework and a GIANT binder filled with articles and worksheets. There was a media person who brought in videos, DVDs, CDs, and books that we were all free to borrow (and people borrowed them–they were awesome!)

And as if all that wasn’t enough, we also had at least two dozen priests who took turns each week giving us the theology lesson. It was fantastic. We got to know so many excellent priests in our diocese, and to this day, when I see one of them, I remember the talk that he gave during our RCIA class.

And it lasted–not exaggerating!–from 6:30 P.M. until 9: 30 P.M. EVERY Monday night from the first of September right up until April 10 Easter Vigil, and we had a two weeks of followup classes after the Easter Vigil. We only had one week of break, during Christmas. There were no “off nights.”

The classes were videotaped and if you missed a session, you were expected to view it on the videotape before you attended the next session.

There were about 30 people in our RCIA class, and as far as I can see, most of these people are still faithful to attend Mass and are involved in the Church.

You can see why my signature says, “RCIA Class of 2004 ROCKS!” It was an awesome class. There were times we all felt like our heads were exploding with knowledge. It was run like a college class. NO ONE felt like our time was being wasted.

My husband became part of the “team” for the next two years, and he was in charge of making sure that everyone had a sponsor, and that the sponsors attended the classes or at least were knowledgeable about what they were actually doing by sponsoring a person.

However, this year, the parish changed RCIA because the convert who taught the class asked for a leave because of illness in the family. So this year, one priest taught it. It met every other week for one hour. It was strictly him lecturing.

Interestingly, it started out with about two dozen people, but only 9 people stuck with it and were received into the Church. It was the lowest number received in the Parish for years.

So this year, at the request of the monsigneur, the convert is BACK! YAY! And my husband will once again serve on the team.

Anyway, whether or not a Protestant learns anything all depends on how the RCIA class is conducted.

My suggestion is that the Protestant consider reading a few of the really good modern books about the Catholic Church. I think even the Compendium is a little much for many Protestants. But a book like Evangelical is Not Enough by Thomas Howard is excellent (especially for evangelicals). Also books by Scott Hahn. I’m sure that others can suggest really good Catholic books that will help Protestants make sense out of the Church.

I disagree that a person needs a degree in theology to understand the Catholic Church. Certainly to understand it at the level of the priest, the bishop, or the Pope, advanced degrees are needed. But for the layperson, it’s not that complicated.

Finally–I think that many CATHOLICS should spend some time studying their theology instead of studying the rubrics of the Mass. I think a lot of people get caught up, **fascinated, by their study of “how” things should be done and all the **“rules” of Mass, and they forget about WHAT their Church actually teachers. **It seems to me that some of the Catholics on this Forum are willing to forget all about ****Charity and Humility **and concentrate instead on denouncing abuses in the Mass and condemning certain bishops, parishes, ***and fellow Catholics as “modernist.”/***QUOTE]

You got that right! I have found a many a convert…who has seen both sides and joined the Church to be more charitable and compassionate. I believe some who are “entrenched” in the “rules” have forgotten to teach as Jesus did. I have never seen so many plastic PHD’s in Church Doctrine as I have seen on CAF. As a cradle Catholic I wonder if I was daydreaming when canon law was taught and we had a test on it. Poor catechesis…no…I don’t think so. This was 1965-1974. I believe it was “time”. Can’t teach much to kids in 1 hour, 1 day a week. And after Confirmation…everyone disappears until marriage. In the Protestant Churches…there are adult classes going on all through to senior citizens. Did our Church miss the boat on that one?

 

[anamchara]

Excellent point (about the evangelical converts). The do seem to be among the most dogmatic and argumentative posters. (Certainly not all or even most evangelical converts fall into this category).

The reason I’m here is because I am interested in Catholicism. I start RCIA in a couple weeks. I have no idea if I will convert but I really do have an open mind. However, when I see attacks on Protestants I instinctively respond (or just leave). I’ve learned to ignore many of the baiting posts (the names may change, but the song remains the same–“Protestants, don’t you agree that your Church sucks and if you don’t agree that your Church sucks, explain why it doesn’t suck”)

If I ever convert it would be because the Holy Spirit convicted me that I should. Not because someone debated me into submission. I’m here because I’ve known (and attended Bible studies) with Catholics who were outstanding Christians. I respect almost everyone on the board, including the most dogmatic AND those who continually post the “Protestants, don’t you agree that…” posts. They are sincere. They may well be far better Christians that I. However, I’m not likely to be persuaded by their rhetoric and I doubt others are either.

On the other hand… I used to attend a non-denominational Bible study with my Platoon Commander in the Marine Corps. He was an outstanding Christian, and outstanding Catholic (I assume based on the way he lived his life). Despite the fact that he was Catholic and I describe myself as an evangelical fundamentalist, he and I never disagreed on issues of theology. There certainly were differences, but they weren’t important. The issues we faced, with living holy lives (or at least making some semblance of an effort to do so) in obediance to God’s Word were clear and it didn’t matter whether we were Catholic or Protestant. Obediance is far more important that theology.

I’m here because of the type of Christian Captain Franklin was, not because he won any debate with me over our theological differences.

End of rant.

You bring up some excellent points as well I agree with all of this. I’ve never been able to understand the mind set that you have to enter the Church like a wet dog after a storm with your tail between your legs.

When I was attending RCIA I was offended at what I was reading in forums like this but then I later realized they were speaking to me as if I was an evangelical and needed to be beat down or come to this great truth My back ground is not evangelical. I came from the United Methodist Church and later PCUSA. Both are consider high church and are not in any way anti-Catholic. We did a great deal of ecumencial things with Catholics over the years, VBS, bible studies. Catholics were a big part of my world. We all lived together in the same community.

I was completely taken a back when I would read some of the stuff these apologists and certain Catholics would write. I was like huh? I would have converts say to me “you have to come to the truth, you have to realize that what you were taught was wrong” HUH?? They didn’t realize I was never taught anything wrong about Catholicism

 

[distracted]

It’s not only Protestants that do this. I would suggest that some of our Catholic brethren who have come here lately to argue against the Church’s Teachings attend more in-depth catechesis before spilling opinions.

i have been to many non-Catholic churches (so called) in my life… I know a little of what just about every denomination teaches…

but the thing i know… that is all i NEED to know… is that there is no power in Protestantism…

I had NO power over sin and satan when i was “out there” away from the Church… For example, when i was outside the Church, i rationalized many sins… and could never seem to overcome them… confession and daily Mass has helped me to overcome… I have stayed out of abusive relationships… I have learned important truths, as opposed to the lies of the devil… I have b een celibate for a very long time… I could not do any of those things when i was outside the Cahtolic Church, though i tried… and tried and tried…

 

[distracted]

(I’m ready to swear off this board for good if I see one more post complaining about “30,000 versions of the Protestant religion, or words to that effect”).

why should that fact bother you??

 

[distracted]

The reason SOME Cathlics do not study Protestant theology in depth is because they have already learned at least one or more tenets thereof that they have found to be so wrong, they don’t need to bother learning any more. What is the point of learning every single tenet of a religion that is obviously wrong, particularly when you are a member of the ONE Church Christ instituted?

 

[jay29]

why should that fact bother you??

They can’t stand the divisiveness in protdome.

 

[jay29]

The reason SOME Cathlics do not study Protestant theology in depth is because they have already learned at least one or more tenets thereof that they have found to be so wrong, they don’t need to bother learning any more. What is the point of learning every single tenet of a religion that is obviously wrong, particularly when you are a member of the ONE Church Christ instituted?

Since I believe the whole entire “reformation” was not founded on any authority from God, I don’t really study it too much…I certainly stop when Luther goes beyond the abuses and attacks the very foundation of the Church, again, all with no authority.

 

[JonNC]

Since I believe the whole entire “reformation” was not founded on any authority from God, I don’t really study it too much…I certainly stop when Luther goes beyond the abuses and attacks the very foundation of the Church, again, all with no authority.

Originally Posted by distracted
The reason SOME Cathlics do not study Protestant theology in depth is because they have already learned at least one or more tenets thereof that they have found to be so wrong, they don’t need to bother learning any more. What is the point of learning every single tenet of a religion that is obviously wrong, particularly when you are a member of the ONE Church Christ instituted?

Jay and Distracted,
Just so I am not misunderstanding, you are not saying that in order to have a positive, insightful, and charitable discussion of our differences that noncatholics should learn more about Catholic teachings, but Catholics need not learn more about non-catholic teachings, are you?

Jon

 

[distracted]

. You seem to use ignorance as a weapon against those who pose things to you that you have no answer or recourse for.

this doesn’t make much sense…

Looks like you better stop calling others ignorant and do something about your own ignorance.

catholics are far less ignorant than Protestants… and that is not my opinion, that is a fact… many Catholics know the teachings of other protestant churches… but I have yet to meet an anti-Catholic person who knew much of ANYTHINg about the Catholic faith.

Funny thing is, though… they ALL THINK they do… Strange how that is…

 

[distracted]

Since I believe the whole entire “reformation” was not founded on any authority from God, I don’t really study it too much…I certainly stop when Luther goes beyond the abuses and attacks the very foundation of the Church, again, all with no authority.

Right… Why should we study religions that are man-made?

I know enough about falsehood… It is all i can do to learn and LIVE the tru******th…

Meaning: I used to beleive a lot of things that just weren’t true… and it was messing up my life. it was when i came into the Church that i began to learn and be empowered to LIVE the truth… Before that, i believed a lot of &^%$# from the devil… Jesus promisedthat the gates of Hell would not prevail over His Church… he never promised they would not prevail over individuals… or false churches…

 

[distracted]

They can’t stand the divisiveness in protdome.

well… then they are 1/2 Catholic already… Catholic means universal… as in **WE all believe the same thing… **

 

[distracted]

. I start RCIA in a couple weeks. I have no idea if I will convert but I really do have an open mind. However, when I see attacks on Protestants I instinctively respond (or just leave).

maybe you have never heard how hateful protestants are to Catholics?? Catholics are human beings and sometimes we get downright weary of always having to defend our faith, always having to argue this point & that… and even when the Protestant has no argument, he argues anyway… so you can hardly blame some of us for getting “testy” … and Protestants are generally more hateful toward Catholicism (and Catholics) than vice versa, in my, admittedly subjective opinion… You have not walked a mile in a devout Catholic’s shoes…

Anyway, congratulations on entering RCIA… maybe some day you will understand waht we go through… (having to deal with the likes of Jack Chick, etc…)…

but oh well, we must constantly remind ourselves of what Jesus said, that we would be “hated by all becasue of [Him]”…
and to take up our crosses and follow…

 

[distracted]

IMO I don’t see how this is possible. To thoroughly understand the Catholic teachings/theology requires almost a degree on Theology. To study at least 2000yr history is a lot to ask. If they did chances are that they would be Catholic (not all).

i agree… but RCIA is all that is available to some people… available to all withou charge…