Protestants, did Jesus Christ gave us a Church with authority?

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Your Bible is probably as dusty as your Rosary.
That’s a great comeback, SIA. You never can stick to the issue, though. Maybe someday, you’ll actually post something of substance.

As for my dusty Bible - I use it daily. How do you think I’ve crushed all of your talking points?

As for my dusty Rosary - I can assure you - it’s in constant use. I’ve even prayed one for you and all of the other rebellious people out there who have lost the faith of the fathers.
 
Actually the church is not a building, it is a group of believers, and we are all called to be a “holy priesthood” all other laws after are man made.

Galatians 1:8

But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!
 
You realize that when you read the Scriptures you must interpret what you read. There is no getting around this. Secondly, how do you know you are correctly interpreting what the church teaches since you are no infallible?
Since you have a difficult time comprehending what I have shared with you in past posts, I’m going to share this with you - ONE more time, my friend:

John 16:13-15

**"But when he comes, the Spirit of truth, he will guide you to all truth. He will not speak on his own, but he will speak what he hears, and will declare to you the things that are coming. **
***He will glorify me, because he will take from what is mine and declare it to *you. **
**Everything that the Father has is mine; for this reason I told you that he will take from what is mine and declare it to you."

Jesus promises and assures us that his Church will be guided by the Holy Spirit who will guide her into ALL truth. Not some, but ALL truth.

To reject this promise is to reject Jesus himself because he is not a liar - regardless of what you or SIA or Hajnalcsillag may think.

When I have a question about Scripture - I go to the Church. That’s why Jesus established the Church. It’s the pillar and foundation of truth (1 Tim. 3:15).
 
Actually the church is not a building, it is a group of believers, and we are all called to be a “holy priesthood” all other laws after are man made.

Galatians 1:8

But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!
Welcome to CAF FollowTheWay! 👍

I think you may be suffereing from a deficient view of the Church.

I agree, however that all believers are called to be holy in the priesthood of bringing Jesus to the world.

What does it mean “all other laws after are man made”. After what?
 
You realize that when you read the Scriptures you must interpret what you read.
This is why Jesus gave us a Church. The Church offers three general guidelines for reading the scriptures:


  1. *]Be especially attentive “to the content and unity of the whole Scripture”;
    *]read the Scripture within “the living tradition of the whole Church”; and
    *]be attentive to the analogy of faith.

    Godbless.
 
lol actually I dont remember what I was going to put with “all other laws are man made”
 
Actually the church is not a building, it is a group of believers, and we are all called to be a “holy priesthood” all other laws after are man made.

Galatians 1:8

But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!
Read my post to justasking4 (post #323).
**John 16:13-15 **lays out - in no uncertain terms - Jesus’ promise to his Church that the Holy Spirit would guide her into ALL truth.

**He also repeatedly said that whatever the Apostles loosed and bound on earth would also be loosed and bound in heaven ******(****Matt 16:19, Matt 18:18, John 20:23)

The Catholic Church possesses the fullnes of truth of our Lord Jesus.
I can’t say the same for all of the other splinters.
 
lol actually I dont remember what I was going to put with “all other laws are man made”
Let us then consider it as a sneeze, or a hiccup. 😉

When Jesus gave His Church the Keys to the Kingdom, and the power to bind and loose, this includes the legislation (making of laws) necessary to operate the church. We see this authority at work in the book of Acts, during the Council of Jerusalem.
 
Actually the church is not a building…
I’ve heard this more than once, actually.
It seems that some non-Catholic Christians think that Catholics believe that ‘church’ is a building.
This is not the case at all.
We believe that ‘church’ means ‘community’.

I don’t think I’ve ever heard a Catholic argue otherwise.

michel
 
You may want to do some research on what binding and loosing really is, you be astounded at what you will find.

I understand that you believe that the catholic church is all powerful and guided by the holy spirit. The funny part is that Peter was corrected by Paul and he was led by the holy spirit, but wait a minute isnt he your all powerful 1st pope??? Moses was corrected (he didnt get to see the promise land) and there are many like that: Solomon, David, etc.

Did Christ ever go to a catholic church?? he went to a synagogue to free people from a religious mind set. I know as a catholic your not supposed to question the Popes authority or the catholic churchs authority, but Christ did, the apostles did. Dont be a sheep led to the slaughter.
 
The funny part is that Peter was corrected by Paul and he was led by the holy spirit, but wait a minute isnt he your all powerful 1st pope???
In fact, we do not claim the pope is ‘all powerful’.

This is called a strawman.
You tell us what we believe, then explain why that belief is wrong.

You have not argued against what we actually believe.
You have only argued against a wrongly configured setup that we do not believe.

Paul was absolutely right for correcting Peter, our first pope.

michel
 
What Catholics all too frequently forget is just how wicked the Catholic Church was pre Reformation.

God who is the same yesterday, today and forever took authority away when the religious rulers were wicked in Isreal. Why would He not do the same in the middle ages?
In fact it is clear that He did.

see 1Sam 4 and Ezekiel 34
Because God didn’t have His Son to free them of their bondages from sin! Why do you think your Savior walked this earth?

I’ve read this thread and picked this one quote to reply to because it seems to me to be the root of a lot of disdain toward the Church.

I have one word, “Judas”.

What Judas couldn’t do, no other man can do. Because men sin and turn away from Christ, we will always have sin in the Church. Because Christ is risen, Christ will always be with the Church.

One other thing, because catholics don’t regard “the Church” as just the catholic faith, “the Church” is not the buildings we worship in, but the entire Christian faith. This is probably one of the biggest misconceptions on this thread. The Church is universal and encompasses all Christian faith who are baptized by water and believe in the Trinity.

So Christ’s Church is still alive and functioning today, however imperfect and sinful. Christ promised this and cannot be wrong.

It is man that has chosen to be separate and prideful in picking and choosing what part of the faith he will follow and staring his church from there, but just as we cannot simply “divorce” ourselves from our earthly parents, we cannot divorce ourselves from God and the Church founded by His Son. We are all in this together like it or not. Some of us choose to follow in the footsteps of our Savior and some don’t.

If you are anything other than catholic, you are simply a “protestant catholic” or a “reformed catholic” but make no mistake, you are and will always be catholic.

I know some don’t like that analogy, but it is what it is. There were only two covenants in the Bible. One for Jews and one for Christ’s Church which he left to Peter and promised He would never leave. There weren’t covenants for the folks who got tired or disenchanted with the Church.

There were two, choose one. And if you choose to follow Christ. Please follow Him in the way He taught His Apostles. Because if you out there interpreting the Bible on your own then you are out there binding and loosing on your own or if you are following some pastor somewhere (who no doubt has good intentions) and interpreting the Bible according to what Martin Luther or Calvin or whomever has bound and loosed, you are not following Christ my friend.

That’s my story and I’m sticken to it.

Peace Be With You.
 
Just to clarify, the first sentence in my last post is in reply to the following part of the included quote:

"God who is the same yesterday, today and forever took authority away when the religious rulers were wicked in Isreal. "
 
I dont tell you what to believe, I once believed it. I was catholic for 20 years of my life. I know the doctrine, there comes a time in our lives when every man must stop accepting man made truths and pick up his bible and read(and understand) after all that was the real reason I got rid of religion for relationship. When you read the Lords word with an open heart he reveals truth to you like never before.
 
I dont tell you what to believe, I once believed it. I was catholic for 20 years of my life. I know the doctrine, there comes a time in our lives when every man must stop accepting man made truths and pick up his bible and read(and understand) after all that was the real reason I got rid of religion for relationship. When you read the Lords word with an open heart he reveals truth to you like never before.
and being a Catholic makes you what? An expert in Catholic theology. I been a Catholic for 33 yrs. I have taken Catechical sources on Catholicism and the reasons behind the Catholic faith and the arguments against it.

I find the accusations against the Catholic written about Catholic Church is foolish and founded on distortion of the truth. Such example is Jack Chick’s writings on the Catholicism, and Lorraine Boettner’s book Roman Catholicism, an Anti-Catholic resources that is often cited by Protestant Evangelical Christians.

The false claims that Catholics worship the saints and Mary. The doctrine of Purgatory, and others. The truth is Catholics do not worship Mary nor the saints.

I find the teachings of the Catholic Church is consistent with the Sacred Text or Holy Bible and Sacred Tradition. I also found out that Jesus Christ founded singular Church. He build His Church upon Peter and the Apostles. When the Apostles died, the authority was handed down to the bishops. He established Apostolic Church.

There are only two Apostolic Churches which trace their history to the Apostles; the Catholic Church and Eastern Orthodox Church.

The Catholic Church resides in Rome by the Pope, and the Eastern Orthodox Church which consist of Constantinople, Alexandria, Moscow, and others Eastern Chrisitian Churches. The concept of Bible Alone is completely foreign to the Early Church Fathers.

Second, the only authority that put the books of the Bible all 46 books of them is the Catholic Church. Bible would not no authority if the Church did not put it together. The complete Biblical list was put into canon in the 4th Century.

Second, Christianity is not the religion of the Bible Alone. It is the religion of Jesus Christ. The belief of a Triune God.

I read the Scripture very well and it teaches Catholic doctrines.
 
You may want to do some research on what binding and loosing really is, you be astounded at what you will find.
It means giving authority to the Apostles and Peter.

Acts 5:13 - the people acknowledged the apostles’ special authority and did not dare take it upon themselves.

Acts 15:6,24; 16:4 - the teaching authority is granted to the apostles and their successors. This teaching authority must be traced to the original apostles, or the authority is not sanctioned by Christ.

Rom. 15:16 – Paul says he is a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles in the priestly service of the gospel of God, so that the offering of the Gentiles may be acceptable. This refers to the ministerial priesthood of the ordained which is distinguishable from the universal priesthood of the laity. Notice the Gentiles are the “sacrifice” and Paul does the “offering.”

1 Cor. 5:3-5; 16:22; 1 Tim. 1:20; Gal 1:8; Matt 18:17 – these verses show the authority of the elders to excommunicate / anathemize (“deliver to satan”).

2 Cor. 2:17 - Paul says the elders are not just random peddlers of God’s word. They are actually commissioned by God. It is not self-appointed authority.

2 Cor. 3:6 – Paul says that certain men have been qualified by God to be ministers of a New Covenant. This refers to the ministerial priesthood of Christ handed down the ages through sacramental ordination.

2 Cor. 5:20 - Paul says we are “ambassadors” for Christ. This means that the apostles and their successors share an actual participation in Christ’s mission, which includes healing, forgiving sins, and confecting the sacraments.

2 Cor. 10:6 – in reference to the ordained, Paul says that they are ready to punish every disobedience. The Church has the authority excommunicate those who disobey her.

2 Cor. 10:8 - Paul acknowledges his authority over God’s people which the Lord gave to build up the Church.

1 Thess. 5:12-13 - Paul charges the members of the Church to respect those who have authority over them.

2 Thess. 3:14 - Paul says if a person does not obey what he has provided in his letter, have nothing to do with him.

1 Tim. 5:17 - Paul charges the members of the Church to honor the appointed elders (“priests”) of the Church.

Titus 2:15 - Paul charges Timothy to exhort and reprove with all authority, which he received by the laying on of hands.

Heb. 12:9 – in the context of spiritual discipline, the author says we have had earthly fathers (referring to the ordained leaders) to discipline us and we respected them.

Heb. 13:7,17 - Paul charges the members of the Church to remember and obey their leaders who have authority over their souls.

1 Peter 2:18 - Peter charges the servants to be submissive to their masters whether kind and gentle or overbearing.

1 Peter 5:5; Jude 8 - Peter and Jude charge the members of the Church to be subject to their elders.

2 Peter 2:10 - Peter warns the faithful about despising authority. He is referring to the apostolic authority granted to them by Christ.

3 John 9 - John points out that Diotrephes does not acknowledge John’s apostolic authority and declares that this is evil.

Deut. 17:10-13 - the Lord commands His faithful Israel to obey the priests that He puts in charge, and do to all that they direct and instruct. The Lord warns that those who do not obey His priests shall die.

Num. 16:1-35 - Korah incited a “protestant” rebellion against God’s chosen Moses in an effort to confuse the distinction between the ministerial and universal offices of priesthood, and Korah and his followers perished. (This effort to blind the distinctions between the priests and the laity is still pursued by dissidents today.)

Sirach 7:29-30 - with all your soul fear the Lord and honor His priests, love your Maker and do not forsake His ministers. God is not threatened by the authority He gives His children! God, as our Loving Father, invites us to participate in His plan of salvation with His Son Jesus. Without authority in the Church, there is error, chaos and confusion.
 
Binding and loosing is not about making up doctrine based on the bible. It comes down to when you have tried to find an answer on a particular subject you come to conclusion using all the scriptural evidence. If I were to be a catholic minister according to Catholicism I could just make stuff up, like because of lack of scriptural evidence you can have pre-marital sex, which the catholic church did about 30+ years ago.
 
Binding and loosing is not about making up doctrine based on the bible. It comes down to when you have tried to find an answer on a particular subject you come to conclusion using all the scriptural evidence. If I were to be a catholic minister according to Catholicism I could just make stuff up, like because of lack of scriptural evidence you can have pre-marital sex, which the catholic church did about 30+ years ago.
???
An assertion such as this demands proof on your part; otherwise, you have descending to the level of the irrelevant, joining company with Jack Chick, Tony Alamo, and other anti-Catholic minions.
 
You may want to do some research on what binding and loosing really is, you be astounded at what you will find.
Is that right? do you think I will find something different than what was handed down to us by the apostles? would that constitute a “different gospel”?
I understand that you believe that the catholic church is all powerful …
really? where were you given to understand this? what sort of strange anti-catholic stuff are they feeding you?
The funny part is that Peter was corrected by Paul and he was led by the holy spirit,
actually, it is not funny when someone is acting like a hypocrite, and not following what they themselves have infallibly proclaimed as God’s truth. thanks be to God, though, He has prevented the church from falling into error.
but wait a minute isnt he your all powerful 1st pope???
No. apparently you have been misinformed.
Moses was corrected (he didnt get to see the promise land) and there are many like that: Solomon, David, etc.

Did Christ ever go to a catholic church??
He comes ever day at Mass. 👍
he went to a synagogue to free people from a religious mind set. I know as a catholic your not supposed to question the Popes authority or the catholic churchs authority, but Christ did, the apostles did. Dont be a sheep led to the slaughter.
good advice. what do you think Jesus meant when he took the seat of Moses away from the Pharisees, and gave it to His apostles?
 
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