Protestants: Do you believe that Christ is truly present in the communion elements of bread and wine?

[Patrick_Murebil]

He is also a “door” and a “gate” and a “sheep herder” iterally…He is a real busy guy isn’t He?

And yet he never pointed to, nor held up a door, a gate, a lamp, a sheep herder, etc. and said that they were His body and blood. The body and blood given for us, and to us.

God bless all!!!

 

[Patrick_Murebil]

Ah, that’s not why they refused to abide with Him…It was their choice to not abide with Jesus for a much different reason; it had nothing to do with them not wanting to think Jesus was a piece of bread on the communion plate. That’s an inference made mostly by Catholics, which is not yet proven.

But; if I answer why I say that I might be accused of the horrendous crime of reading these posts too fast so I will wait for a bit before answering. Jesus said other things in the Scripture passages of John 6 which would strongly suggest that the ones who walked away had a much different reason for doing so than Catholics here at CAF are saying.

No, please don’t wait to share those other things in the Scripture passages of John 6 which strongly suggest the other reasons as to why the disciples walked away.

If you have those answers, the time is NOW to SHARE them with everyone reading this thread.

Please don’t hesitate. I for one would love to see those reasons pointed out from scripture.

I promise you that when you share those scriptures, I for one will not accuse you of anything.

God bless all!!!

 

[NonCatholic]

And yet he never pointed to, nor held up a door, a gate, a lamp, a sheep herder, etc. and said that they were His body and blood. The body and blood given for us, and to us.

God bless all!!!

I’ve also eaten bread, but never cannibalized Jesus, which you don’t really do anyway, but worse you imagine you do and find pleasure in it thinking it brings you closer to God…at the end of the day it was a bland wafer.

Euphemisms were commonly used by Jesus, which was the point you missed on the previous post such as door, gate, and shepherd.

The word “eat” was a common Jewish euphemism, which Jesus used to drive home the point that He is the only “true” food from Heaven. There is nothing more to it than that. He tells us what he means before and after in the context of the chapter.

John 6:29 ** Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.” - very consistent with the salvation message, which this passage is more about than the Lord’s supper, which was not implemented until later.
**
John 6:35 Jesus said to them, "I am the bread of life; he who comes to Me will not hunger, and he who believes in Me will never thirst. - Consistent with the gospel message.

John 6:40 “For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life” - again consistent with the gospel message.

John 6:51 “I am the living bread that came down out of heaven; if anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread also which I will give for the life of the world is My flesh.” - Jesus uses an analogy and a euphemism here to drive home the point - (living bread - analogous to Him being eternal life) and (eats - consistent with “believe”, “behold” “comes to me”)

John 6:52 Now the Jews, like Catholics and others, did not get it (52 Then the Jews began to argue with one another, saying, “How can this man give us His flesh to eat?”,) so He makes it harder for them because He already knows they don’t get it or believe, just you do not.

In verse 64 He explains the problem which is unbelief - consistent with the gospel message. “But there are some of you who do not believe.” and verse 65 He explains the sovereignty of God in how that truth is revealed.

Notice what Peter says "Simon Peter answered Him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have words of eternal life. " Peter understood the message and its meaning - “words of eternal life” Is Jesus not the Word that brings eternal life?
One must look at whole of Scripture, but the unregenerate religious mind always perverts the truth and will always continue to do so because the natural person does not and cannot understand the Word. That can be changed through the grace of God unto faith through Jesus.

 

[NonCatholic]

That line has been disproven time and again.

When he was speaking in that manner, every one knew he was talking metaphorically. That is why you don’t have them saying how can he be a door? How can he be a gate? Everyone knew it was metaphorical.

Not so with John 6. People listening to him knew he was talking literally as evidenced by their question and their refusal to abide with him. They knew he could not be speaking metaphorically because a metaphorical interpretation is not possible without making Jesus sound stupid. That is why he could not say he was speaking metaphorically either when they asked how can this man give us his flesh to eat. Rather than explaining, he makes it worse by emphasizing and repeating what he has said before.

He already knew those who would not believe and “eat” is a common euphemism used by the Jews; the one’s that believe and understand, like Peter and the rest of the disciples that stayed understood these were the “words of life”. John 6 has more to do with the message of salvation than the Lords supper, which was not implemented till later. As consistent with the gospel, the flesh and blood are means God used to accomplish the work of salvation, which is why we are to “do this in remembrance” of Me; another reminder to believers of the price God paid in the great sacrifice that brought believers salvation.

 

[Patrick_Murebil]

The word “eat” was a common Jewish euphemism, which Jesus used to drive home the point that He is the only “true” food from Heaven. There is nothing more to it than that. He tells us what he means before and after in the context of the chapter.

John 6:29 ** Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.” - very consistent with the salvation message, which this passage is more about than the Lord’s supper, which was not implemented until later.
**
John 6:35 Jesus said to them, "I am the bread of life; he who comes to Me will not hunger, and he who believes in Me will never thirst. - Consistent with the gospel message.

John 6:40 “For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life” - again consistent with the gospel message.

John 6:51 “I am the living bread that came down out of heaven; if anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread also which I will give for the life of the world is My flesh.” - Jesus uses an analogy and a euphemism here to drive home the point - (living bread - analogous to Him being eternal life) and (eats - consistent with “believe”, “behold” “comes to me”)

John 6:52 Now the Jews, like Catholics and others, did not get it (52 Then the Jews began to argue with one another, saying, “How can this man give us His flesh to eat?”,) so He makes it harder for them because He already knows they don’t get it or believe, just you do not.

In verse 64 He explains the problem which is unbelief - consistent with the gospel message. “But there are some of you who do not believe.” and verse 65 He explains the sovereignty of God in how that truth is revealed

.

I believe all of the verses you quote above…I deeply, sincerely, and prayerfully believe every word in those verses you quote above. I also believe these words of Jesus in between verses 52 and 64 which you omitted above:

John 6:53 **Jesus said **to them, “I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him. 57Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. 58This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your forefathers ate manna and died, but he who feeds on this bread will live forever.”

Notice what Peter says "Simon Peter answered Him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have words of eternal life. " Peter understood the message and its meaning - “words of eternal life” Is Jesus not the Word that brings eternal life?

And Jesus’ words, which I read, that Jesus spoke regarding eternal life are :54Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.

Jesus’ words are very clear

One must look at whole of Scripture, but the unregenerate religious mind always perverts the truth and will always continue to do so because the natural person does not and cannot understand the Word. That can be changed through the grace of God unto faith through Jesus.

Amen!!! I couldn’t agree with you more. When we study the scriptures prayerfully, God sends His Holy Spirit and Grace to give us the faith to accept His teachings no matter how foolish they seem to us. Speaking of preaching Christ crucified, Paul concludes in 1 Corinthians 1:25For the foolishness of God is wiser than man’s wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man’s strength.

As a former Seventh-day Adventist, I can assure you that the last thing I ever dreamed of or wanted to do was admit that the Catholic Church might be correct and Biblical in its’ teaching. In fact it would have been difficult to make a distinction between Protestant101 and me if you were to listen to both of us at the same time.

However, prayer was the key. And the more I prayed about what I was reading and studying in the Bible, the more grace came from Our Father and increased my faith in Jesus Christ and His teachings. And yet, it still seemed unfortunate to me that this process was leading me to the Catholic Church.

Fortunately, as I looked at Scripture as a whole, and continued praying more than I ever prayed in my life, God regenerated my religious mind and gave me the gift to see and understand The Word of God in ways that I could not as an unregenerated natural person. And if He can give someone like me that grace, then I have hope for everyone!

Now go and read the account of the Passover in Exodus 12, and particularly focus on and think about *Exodus 12:7 Then they are to take some of the blood and put it on the sides and tops of the doorframes of the houses where they eat the lambs. 8 **That same night they are to eat the meat *roasted over the fire, along with bitter herbs, and bread made without yeast. 9 Do not eat the meat raw or cooked in water, but roast it over the fire—head, legs and inner parts. 10 Do not leave any of it till morning; if some is left till morning, you must burn it.

I know you must be familiar with the concept that Jesus is the true Passover Lamb, the true sacrifice who saves our lives.

It is a blessing how the whole of scripture comes together consistently as God calls us to His Kingdom!!

God bless all!!!

 

[guanophore]

As consistent with the gospel, the flesh and blood are means God used to accomplish the work of salvation, which is why we are to “do this in remembrance” of Me; another reminder to believers of the price God paid in the great sacrifice that brought believers salvation.

Indeed, but according to you, apparently what Catholics believe He gave as his Real flesh for the life of the world in your mind is symbolic.

he Gave His symbolic flesh for the life of the world.

 

[Protestant101]

And yet he never pointed to, nor held up a door, a gate, a lamp, a sheep herder, etc. and said that they were His body and blood.

Yes, He did! because He said “I AM”"""""""""""""""

 

[Protestant101]

My apologies to your wife, petal.

LOL, you are funny. I will tell her how “sorry” you are.

 

[Protestant101]

.

As a former Seventh-day Adventist, I can assure you that the last thing I ever dreamed of or wanted to do was admit that the Catholic Church might be correct and Biblical in its’ teaching. In fact it would have been difficult to make a distinction between Protestant101 and me if you were to listen to both of us at the same time.

However, prayer was the key. And the more I prayed about what I was reading and studying in the Bible, the more grace came from Our Father and increased my faith in Jesus Christ and His teachings. And yet, it still seemed unfortunate to me that this process was leading me to the Catholic Church.

Fortunately, as I looked at Scripture as a whole, and continued praying more than I ever prayed in my life, God regenerated my religious mind and gave me the gift to see and understand The Word of God in ways that I could not as an unregenerated natural person. And if He can give someone like me that grace, then I have hope for everyone!

It is a blessing how the whole of scripture comes together consistently as God calls us to His Kingdom!!

God bless all!!!

Hello "NonCatholic"

Often, as you investigate other religions, you will find that they always have great flowing “testimonies.” How accurate are such "testimonies? What do such “testimonies” really mean? And how would such a “testimony” actually hold up to the test of God’s Word?

Now, I won’t presume to tell you what to think; but I would like to share a bit more of what I think. I remember “testimonies” that I used to give. One day; it ocurred to me that it might be an interesting project to actually take all the components of my own experience, and see what God’s Word actually said about it. I was absolutely shocked to see some of the falsehoods that had been ocurring in my experience.

It is important to note that one of the most glaring things God’s Word pointed out to me was that no matter what doctrine I chose, it was important to experience Jesus, in the personal way depicted in 1 Jo.5:11-12. It has nothing to do with eating bread, drinking wine, making sacrifices, or any other Church sacrament a given Church could drum up.

When I discovered this from a very dear Adventist friend/mentor; I realized that Christ did indeed walk with His people, wherever they would happen to be. As a Seventh-day Adventist, this excited me very much. Why? Because I didn’t have to worry so much about what others believed, I just had to ask myself, "Do they “have” Jesus, as in the context of 1 Jo.11-12? And if so, what can I learn from them, about Him?

I also learned that I did not have to believe every testimony given to me as some sort of “proof” of any particular doctrinal set of beliefs. Testimonies always mean something, but not necessarily pointing out evidence of Bible truths. When a “testimony” gives the inference that all the people in the Church that a given person has left, for eg., are “unregenerated natural persons” this is something that can show a very sad state of affairs. To “have” Jesus, as in 1 Jo.5:11-12, is not very evident in such ramblings, but it does not mean the person is not a Christian. It just means that we need to be careful about believing testimonies as evidence of Bible truth. Too often, testimonies are used to manipulate others into “the real truth.”

 

[Patrick_Murebil]

Yes, He did! because He said “I AM”"""""""""""""""

Actually, No He did not. Go back and read all those verses carefully.

My original quote to which you responded said this:

And yet **he never **pointed to, nor held up a door, a gate, a lamp, a sheep herder, etc. and said that they were His body and blood.

If He did as you say…show me where.

God bless all!!!

 

[Patrick_Murebil]

It just means that we need to be careful about believing testimonies as evidence of Bible truth. Too often, testimonies are used to manipulate others into “the real truth.”

My testimony is mine. It is what it is. Just as the testimonies of everyone and you are theirs and yours.

Neither my testimony, nor yours or any others, are needed as evidence of Bible truth. The Bible speaks for itself.

But I did not make up what Jesus said or taught. His teachings are there for everyone to read. And He has protected His teachings, which have not changed for 2000 years, in the Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. 1,500 years before the protestants began their withdrawal from the True Church, The Body of Jesus Christ, The Bride of Christ.

Empires, nations, and kingdoms have come and gone these past 2000 years, but The Church remains, and will remain until Jesus comes the second time.

And that has nothing to do with anything that you and I have to say. But it does place us in a precarious decision making situation doesn’t it?

And God is the only One who can lead each of us to make the correct decision. Pray.

God bless all!!!

 

[ryanoneil]

I am a Protestant who believes that Christ is truly present in the consecrated bread and wine every Sunday at my Anglican church. Do you believe this or do you feel that it is truly a symbolistic example of the Lord’s Supper?

I beleive Christ is truly present. In John 6:54, 56, 57, 58 Jesus uses the literal verb, translated as “trogo,” which means to gnaw or chew or crunch.

 

[Protestant101]

Actually, No He did not. Go back and read all those verses carefully.

My original quote to which you responded said this:

And yet **he never **pointed to, nor held up a door, a gate, a lamp, a sheep herder, etc. and said that they were His body and blood.

If He did as you say…show me where.

God bless all!!!

Joh 10:7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.

"I" refers to the whole Person here, including “body and blood.” It is no different than Jesus saying “I am the Bread…” or “the flesh” or “the wine” (blood).

Jesus goes on to say, just as He did with the “bread” “blood” or “flesh” that I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved," Joh 10:9 There are many more verses which will agree with what I have said.

 

[Patrick_Murebil]

"I" refers to the whole Person here, including “body and blood.” It is no different than Jesus saying “I am the Bread…” or “the flesh” or “the wine” (blood).

Jesus goes on to say, just as He did with the “bread” “blood” or “flesh” that I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved," Joh 10:9 There are many more verses which will agree with what I have said.

Please quote the verses in the Bible where Jesus refers to anything other than bread and wine and says “This is my body”, “This is my blood”

Where does He hold up a door or point to it and say “This is my Body”, “This is my blood”?..given for you.

Where does He hold up a lamp or point to it and say “This is my Body”, “This is my blood”?..given for you.

Where does He hold up a good shepherd or point to it and say “This is my Body”, “This is my blood”?.. given for you.

There are only two things He holds up and says those words, and that is bread and wine at the Last Supper, which was Passover.

Jesus is the Passover Lamb, which must not only be sacrificed, it must be eaten.

And where does Jesus teach this truth? John 6

And why did Jesus teach this truth about eating His flesh and drinking His blood at this time? The answer is right at the beginning of John 6:

1Some time after this, Jesus crossed to the far shore of the Sea of Galilee (that is, the Sea of Tiberias), 2and a great crowd of people followed him because they saw the miraculous signs he had performed on the sick. 3Then Jesus went up on a mountainside and sat down with his disciples. 4The Jewish Passover Feast was near.

Do you think that this is merely a coincidence? Or did it have meaning to those whom He was revealing His Truth?

And in the Book of Revelation, John sees The Lamb in heaven.

And Jesus’, The True Passover Lamb who was slain to save us from our sins, is our True Passover Feast.

And through the Blessing in the Presence of His Body and Blood, which we eat as instructed by Jesus Himself, He gives us His eternal life through His once and for all sacrifice on the cross.

And He gives eternal life to all who believe in faith for the past 2000 years to the present, and to all from the present until He returns. His one time sacrifice for all is for every person in every age from the time of the cross until the second coming for all who have faith to believe.

God bless all!!!

 

[Robertwilliam]

Please quote the verses in the Bible where Jesus refers to anything other than bread and wine and says “This is my body”, “This is my blood”

Where does He hold up a door or point to it and say “This is my Body”, “This is my blood”?..given for you.

Where does He hold up a lamp or point to it and say “This is my Body”, “This is my blood”?..given for you.

Where does He hold up a good shepherd or point to it and say “This is my Body”, “This is my blood”?.. given for you.

There are only two things He holds up and says those words, and that is bread and wine at the Last Supper, which was Passover.

Jesus is the Passover Lamb, which must not only be sacrificed, it must be eaten.

And where does Jesus teach this truth? John 6

And why did Jesus teach this truth about eating His flesh and drinking His blood at this time? The answer is right at the beginning of John 6:

1Some time after this, Jesus crossed to the far shore of the Sea of Galilee (that is, the Sea of Tiberias), 2and a great crowd of people followed him because they saw the miraculous signs he had performed on the sick. 3Then Jesus went up on a mountainside and sat down with his disciples. 4The Jewish Passover Feast was near.

Do you think that this is merely a coincidence? Or did it have meaning to those whom He was revealing His Truth?

And in the Book of Revelation, John sees The Lamb in heaven.

And Jesus’, The True Passover Lamb who was slain to save us from our sins, is our True Passover Feast.

And through the Blessing in the Presence of His Body and Blood, which we eat as instructed by Jesus Himself, He gives us His eternal life through His once and for all sacrifice on the cross.

And He gives eternal life to all who believe in faith for the past 2000 years to the present, and to all from the present until He returns. His one time sacrifice for all is for every person in every age from the time of the cross until the second coming for all who have faith to believe.

God bless all!!!

Very Good. Not only that, the Church through the ages has always taught this. If you look at all the ancient Christian Churches, Western, Eastern,and Oriental Orthodox Churches, every single one teaches the SAME thing,i.e. The bread and wine after consecration become the Real True Body and Blood of our Lord Jesus Christ. The only ones who denied this historical Christian teaching are the Protestant churches, who also deny that the other Sacraments impart sanctifying grace to the partakers.

 

[ryanoneil]

"I" Jesus goes on to say, just as He did with the “bread” “blood” or “flesh” that I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved," Joh 10:9 There are many more verses which will agree with what I have said.

But the previous verse indicates that Jesus was using a figure of speech. In this case, no one asked Jesus if He was literally made of wood. They understood him metaphorically.

There is a big difference.

The Jews directly ask “How can this man give us (his) flesh to eat?” in (John 6:52). Jesus confirmed that His flesh and blood were food and drink indeed. Many disciples understood Him and left Him.

 

[Protestant101]

Please quote the verses in the Bible where Jesus refers to anything other than bread and wine and says “This is my body”, “This is my blood”

Where does He hold up a door or point to it and say “This is my Body”, “This is my blood”?..given for you.

Where does He hold up a lamp or point to it and say “This is my Body”, “This is my blood”?..given for you.

Where does He hold up a good shepherd or point to it and say “This is my Body”, “This is my blood”?.. given for you.

There are only two things He holds up and says those words, and that is bread and wine at the Last Supper, which was Passover.

Jesus is the Passover Lamb, which must not only be sacrificed, it must be eaten.

And where does Jesus teach this truth? John 6

And why did Jesus teach this truth about eating His flesh and drinking His blood at this time? The answer is right at the beginning of John 6:

1Some time after this, Jesus crossed to the far shore of the Sea of Galilee (that is, the Sea of Tiberias), 2and a great crowd of people followed him because they saw the miraculous signs he had performed on the sick. 3Then Jesus went up on a mountainside and sat down with his disciples. 4The Jewish Passover Feast was near.

Do you think that this is merely a coincidence? Or did it have meaning to those whom He was revealing His Truth?

And in the Book of Revelation, John sees The Lamb in heaven.

And Jesus’, The True Passover Lamb who was slain to save us from our sins, is our True Passover Feast.

And through the Blessing in the Presence of His Body and Blood, which we eat as instructed by Jesus Himself, He gives us His eternal life through His once and for all sacrifice on the cross.

And He gives eternal life to all who believe in faith for the past 2000 years to the present, and to all from the present until He returns. His one time sacrifice for all is for every person in every age from the time of the cross until the second coming for all who have faith to believe.

God bless all!!!

Patrick; you must be getting quite desperate to prove me wrong here…this is really “thin-ice theology.”

First, and foremost, there is not a different method of being saved, from OT to NT.

Second, I did quote one scripture above; I am not sure why you ignored it, and did not explain why what I said was so wrong.

Originally Posted by Protestant101 forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cag/viewpost.gif
"I" refers to the whole Person here, including “body and blood.” It is no different than Jesus saying “I am the Bread…” or “the flesh” or “the wine” (blood).

Jesus goes on to say, just as He did with the “bread” “blood” or “flesh” that I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved," Joh 10:9 There are many more verses which will agree with what I have said.

You act like this Catholic Eucharist doctrine of eating Jesus’ literal flesh is the only thing that we gain “eternal life” by. (“in it’s fullness” whatever that means). But the Bible text I quoted above, says clearly if we enter this “Door” we have eternal life. No eating Jesus involved there at all!! Jesus said “I AM THE DOOR.” Was He just referring to His ghost? Or, maybe to just some ethereal portion of Himself which was “symbolic?” How can something that is not Jesus (as in all of Him), or that is only “symbolic” of Him, lead to eternal life, as this text says entering The Door will do?

Of course, the Catholics here are going to laud you with accolades for sticking up for the Church; but as for sound doctrine; I can only say: “Where?”

 

[Patrick_Murebil]

Patrick; you must be getting quite desperate to prove me wrong here…this is really “thin-ice theology.”

First, and foremost, there is not a different method of being saved, from OT to NT.

Second, I did quote one scripture above; I am not sure why you ignored it, and did not explain why what I said was so wrong.

You act like this Catholic Eucharist doctrine of eating Jesus’ literal flesh is the only thing that we gain “eternal life” by. (“in it’s fullness” whatever that means). But the Bible text I quoted above, says clearly if we enter this “Door” we have eternal life. No eating Jesus involved there at all!! Jesus said “I AM THE DOOR.” Was He just referring to His ghost? Or, maybe to just some ethereal portion of Himself which was “symbolic?” How can something that is not Jesus (as in all of Him), or that is only “symbolic” of Him, lead to eternal life, as this text says entering The Door will do?

Of course, the Catholics here are going to laud you with accolades for sticking up for the Church; but as for sound doctrine; I can only say: “Where?”

Hi Protestant101,

Ok…let’s leave the topic of eating Jesus’ flesh, and drinking Jesus’ blood, as He commanded us for the moment, and discuss your one verse of scripture. I have faith that you will come back later and address Jesus’ body and blood being in things other than the bread and wine as He spoke at the Last Supper.

So let’s skate on your ice…I’m trusting it to not be thin based on where you live…in fact it is probably frozen to the bottom of the lake.

Please be perfectly clear about this…I completely, totally, unreservedly, without question, without doubt, in the fullness of the faith I have (even with my limitations), agree and believe with the verse you quoted that Jesus is the Door, which if we enter, we will have eternal life!!!

First off He does not say that looking at the door, or thinking about the door, or ignoring the door even if it is right in front of you will lead to eternal life, but entering the door. He says, and here is the verse as you posted it:
that I am the door: **by me **if any man enter in, he shall be saved," Joh 10:9
He says “by me”

You and I are in complete agreement with that, if you also believe that!!! Praise God!!! It is all about JESUS…therein lies the hope of eternal life for all of humanity from the creation of the first man and woman to the day Jesus returns the second time.

And there is nothing that I have posted or written in this thread, which is not in harmony with John 10:9…or John 6…or any verse about Jesus being the Light of our way, or Jesus being our shepherd.

Yet Jesus did not say anything about doors at the Last Supper as He approached sacrificing Himself as the True Passover Lamb for our sins on the cross.

Now please answer this for me since you brought up John 10:9…

How do you enter Jesus, the Door?

And how do you know when you have entered Jesus the Door?

God bless all!!!

 

[NonCatholic]

.

I believe all of the verses you quote above…I deeply, sincerely, and prayerfully believe every word in those verses you quote above. I also believe these words of Jesus in between verses 52 and 64 which you omitted above:

John 6:53 **Jesus said **to them, “I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him. 57Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. 58This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your forefathers ate manna and died, but he who feeds on this bread will live forever.”

And Jesus’ words, which I read, that Jesus spoke regarding eternal life are :54Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.

Jesus’ words are very clear

Amen!!! I couldn’t agree with you more. When we study the scriptures prayerfully, God sends His Holy Spirit and Grace to give us the faith to accept His teachings no matter how foolish they seem to us. Speaking of preaching Christ crucified, Paul concludes in 1 Corinthians 1:25For the foolishness of God is wiser than man’s wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man’s strength.

As a former Seventh-day Adventist, I can assure you that the last thing I ever dreamed of or wanted to do was admit that the Catholic Church might be correct and Biblical in its’ teaching. In fact it would have been difficult to make a distinction between Protestant101 and me if you were to listen to both of us at the same time.

However, prayer was the key. And the more I prayed about what I was reading and studying in the Bible, the more grace came from Our Father and increased my faith in Jesus Christ and His teachings. And yet, it still seemed unfortunate to me that this process was leading me to the Catholic Church.

Fortunately, as I looked at Scripture as a whole, and continued praying more than I ever prayed in my life, God regenerated my religious mind and gave me the gift to see and understand The Word of God in ways that I could not as an unregenerated natural person. And if He can give someone like me that grace, then I have hope for everyone!

Now go and read the account of the Passover in Exodus 12, and particularly focus on and think about Exodus 12:7 Then they are to take some of the blood and put it on the sides and tops of the doorframes of the houses where they eat the lambs. 8 **That same night they are to eat the meat **roasted over the fire, along with bitter herbs, and bread made without yeast. 9 Do not eat the meat raw or cooked in water, but roast it over the fire—head, legs and inner parts. 10 Do not leave any of it till morning; if some is left till morning, you must burn it.

I know you must be familiar with the concept that Jesus is the true Passover Lamb, the true sacrifice who saves our lives.

It is a blessing how the whole of scripture comes together consistently as God calls us to His Kingdom!!

God bless all!!!

I think your chances were better in the former.

Here is a problem: quote “**When we study the scriptures prayerfully, God sends His Holy Spirit **and Grace to give us the faith to accept His teachings no matter how foolish they seem to us”

You can pray all you want, but until one has received the Holy Spirit; he cannot understand the Word. Eat is a common Jewish euphemism, which Jesus used on many occasions…this was no exception. Eat my flesh and drink my blood…“take up your cross and follow me”…the more I study John 6, which is a great deal since I’ve been in this forum, the less this has a thing to do with the Lord’s supper…it is about salvation.

 

[ufamtobie]

I think your chances were better in the former.

Here is a problem: quote "**When we study the scriptures prayerfully, God sends His Holy Spirit **