Protestants:Doesn't the Bible support the true presense?

[Gottle_of_Geer]

My fellow posters,

**I don’t think we explored the subject of the true presense in the Bread and Wine enough bacause for some strange reason Protestants and others still can not see the truth as Jesus taught in the Scriptures. **

**So my question is: Protestants: Doesn’t the Bible support the the presense? **

What do you think?

I thank Catholics ought to try a lot harder to understand why Protestants think as they do…​

 

[Realcatholicgk]

I thank Catholics ought to try a lot harder to understand why Protestants think as they do…​

**Hi Gottle,

IMHO that is an easy one! Satan clouded their minds over 500 years ago and the dance goes on!

The real truth is: No one can know what Protestants think! They have a mixture of 1,375 doctrines, dogmas, and beliefs. Some don’t think Jesus was God! Some think you have to worship on Saturdays! Some think the bible is the sole authority for their beliefs and practices, yet they don’t follow it! Some think Jesus drank grape juice and called it wine! Some think jesus had brothers and sisters, Some think they can be saved by faith alone in trusting Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior! Some think that OSAS, Some believe that to disrespect Jesus’ Mother doesn’t violate the commandment to Honor your Father and Mother. Some think they can be saved by faith alone. Some don’t think Jesus is really presence in the Eucharist! Some don’t believe the Catholic church is the real church, well actually more than some have that foolish belief!

God Bless**

 

[pete_29]

I thank Catholics ought to try a lot harder to understand why Protestants think as they do…​

and vice versa of course.

 

[benedictus2]

Go to Sacred Scripture,you will find a post that discusses 1John:5 Salvation and how they know it goes against their rules but they would rather deny the Holy Scriptures and may be even drop them all together than admit their wrong Sorry that is sacraligeous,I could never join a church that beleives in man,and denys the Lord. I guess the end is near (strange doctrines) Nancy

Actually, I am in that thread and so far all the protestants there have been able to do is take the Bible out of context. If you read their posts, they are actually quite illogical.

You see it is actually the protestants who believe in man. Their churches are all man made.

Remember this, the protestant churches started only around about the year 1520. Now, Jesus lived way before that. As a matter of fact 2000 years ago.

When he established His church, he did that 2000 years ago.

That Church that Jesus built 2000years ago, that is the Catholic Church, still here today because Jesus promised that the gates of hell will not prevail.

You see it is the protestants who go against the Scripture. When they don’t like what Jesus is saying they ignore Him. They make their own man made doctrines.

Jesus says this is my Body, this is My Blood. They ignore him.

Jesus says divorce is against God;s will. They permit divorce.

Contraception is against God’s will. They permit contraception.

The Bible says homesexual sex is against God’s will. They ordain actively homosexual men.

They only choose those things that are easy to believe. So in fact they don’t believe in Jesus. Because IF YOU BELIEVE IN JESUS, YOU WILL FOLLOW ALL HIS COMMANDS. YOU WILL NOT PICK AND CHOOSE.

So let me ask you this. Do you follow what He commands or do you also pick and choose?

You said you could never follow a church that follows man and deny’s the Lord. But when you pick and choose to follow only those commands that suit you, then YOU ARE DENYING THE LORD.

 

[benedictus2]

I do love the Lord my God with my whole body mind and spirit,and I do love all the people that love him,and seek him, and beleive in his word. Romans:8:28 Nancy

To love God is to follow His commands. All of them.

 

[benedictus2]

[sign]Realcatholic [/sign] I herd the Catholic church has been reduced to a remnant,as predicted in a situation similar to the Arian crisis,is that true? Also it’s not nice to be pregidest you know that started slavery,and Jesus said you cannot be a slave to two masters “You can change the frame but you can never change the picture” God is good: Nancy

Well you heard very wrong indeed. In all of Christianity, the largest grouping is the Catholic Church.

And even if she were to have less members than the other Christian churches she will still remain Christ’s Church.

At Pentecost when she probably had only less than a hundred members, she was Christ’s Church.

In the ensuing years when their numbers were persecuted so they could not preach the gospel, she was Christ’s Church.

When the persecution stopped because Constantine allowed them to practice their faith in the open and their numbers increased, she was still Christ’s Church.

Down the centuries, through good times and bad she remains Christ’s Church.

And should it happen that only a remnant remain, she will still be Christ’s Church.

Numbers do not determine whether she is Christ’s Church or not. Christ determined that 2000 years ago and no human being can change that.

And between a man made church and Christ’ Church, I will pick Christ’s Church any time.

Sadly, a lot of people wouldn’t. Because she would not compromise the Gospel, people find her teaching hard.

As the disciples who left him said in John 6:60 “This saying is hard. Who can accept it”.

And Christ continues to ask this of those who cannot accept His Church’s teachings: " Do you also want to leave?"

 

[benedictus2]

I thank Catholics ought to try a lot harder to understand why Protestants think as they do…​

We know why Protestants think the way they do.

If you are a cradle Protestant you believe what you have been taught.

If you are a convert to Protestantism, chances are you are either terribly under catechized or there is a moral teaching of the church that you could not accept.

If it is the former, it is understandable if you leave.

If it is the latter, the moral teaching that you are rejecting is Christ’s teaching. So switching to another denomination does not matter. You have already rejected Christ.

 

[JonNC]

Realcatholicgk:

And it isn’t my job to have to teach you about your Lutheran groups and how they are organized! Or should that be disorganized? I Should be able to rebut anything you said about my religion.

And here seems to be the real issue for you. You seem to think that all protestants are out to get the Catholic Church, to condemn and, as you said, insult her. That seems to motivate you. Now, I may be wrong, so I used the word “seems”. One thing is certain, your tone and online demeanor have no chance of convincing even those who might be inclined to convert to do so.

Didn’t Jesus establish one Church with a single head? “And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven” ~ Matt 16:19 Wasn’t that 2,000 years ago? Who gave away the authority that Jesus gave His church? Answer: No one!

I am certain that Christ intended to establish one Church. Because of sin, there are schisms and divisions in our catholic faith, east and west, and separations in the west. It is a shared sin by all, in Wittenburg and in Rome, in Canterbury and the East.
If Rome wishes to claim to be the one true Church, then a significant share of the responsibility for division long ago, and reconciliation now, falls to her, and saying so does not minimize the repsonsibility of my communion. And as I’ve said before, I thank God for Vatican II and the recent popes from John XXIII to now for their efforts in this area. I am also thankful that they do not share the poisoning rhetoric that you use.

If they seem that way I apologize.

Apology not required, but accepted.

I never attack another person.

Oh, they feel personal to me!

If you can think of a better way for me to explain that *you *are following Satan, in his counterfeit churches, please let me know how! You could help me save souls! jesus would be so happy I am sure.

See? This is personal. And not the way your Church would describe me, or my communion. How about, “you are following a mistaken understanding of the truth”, or “your doctrine cannot be completely support by scripture and Tradition”.

As I see it, it would be uncharitiable for me not to attempt to save your soul!

I thought Christ did that. And that sounds so much like the line I hear from protestants who think you are not saved because you are Catholic. How arrogant!
But read back over this thread, and tell me how you have convinced anyone here that you would be successful, much less interested, in my conversion. There are a number of Catholics here that have influenced me in a positive way to reconsider where I am, what communion I adhere to - Ralphinal, tgette, Robhom, Gottle-of-Geer, and a few others - but certainly not you.
Perhaps if that is your goal, you may consider the vinegar vs. honey analogy. You motives may be pure, but your tactics stink.

Jon

 

[Realcatholicgk]

And here seems to be the real issue for you. You seem to think that all protestants are out to get the Catholic Church, to condemn and, as you said, insult her. That seems to motivate you. Now, I may be wrong, so I used the word “seems”. One thing is certain, your tone and online demeanor have no chance of convincing even those who might be inclined to convert to do so.
**
Hi JonNC,

I think Protestants are wrong. My church thinks Protestant are wrong.Did you actually mean to say “tone”? **

I am certain that Christ intended to establish one Church. Because of sin, there are schisms and divisions in our catholic faith, east and west, and separations in the west. It is a shared sin by all, in Wittenburg and in Rome, in Canterbury and the East.
If Rome wishes to claim to be the one true Church, then a significant share of the responsibility for division long ago, and reconciliation now, falls to her, and saying so does not minimize the repsonsibility of my communion.

**Sounds good but not true! Protestants turned their backs on Jesus they must turn around! The Catholic church will greet them with open arms like the father did his son! **

And as I’ve said before, I thank God for Vatican II and the recent popes from John XXIII to now for their efforts in this area. I am also thankful that they do not share the poisoning rhetoric that you use.

I thank God that our new Pope is finally getting the Catholic church back on the correct path. We owe it to Protestants to get their souls saved. There is one true church Period! You think we are all alike? we are like lambs and goats, my friend. and that is said with real love for you.

Apology not required, but accepted.

**It is sincere! **

Oh, they feel personal to me!

**Maybe because they applied to your situation. Reread them, there is nothing but truth contained in what I said! **

See? This is personal. And not the way your Church would describe me, or my communion.

Actually it is exactly how our church describes your group.

Click On: Catholic Church speaks out!

How about, “you are following a mistaken understanding of the truth”, or “your doctrine cannot be completely support by scripture and Tradition”.

**That differs from “you are following a counterfeit religion”, or “your beliefs are false made by the Devil” how? **

I thought Christ did that. And that sounds so much like the line I hear from protestants who think you are not saved because you are Catholic. How arrogant!

**For them yes! it would be arrogant and false because they weren’t the church that Jesus established 2,000 years ago! They are all less than 500 years old. Saying they are real churches means that they are lying to themselves. To call saying that arrogant would be like calling Jesus arrogant for saying He was the Son of God! Truth isn’t arrogant. It is what it is! **

But read back over this thread, and tell me how you have convinced anyone here that you would be successful, much less interested, in my conversion.

**Who know the hearts of people but God? Read back over this thread and tell me how I haven’t attempted to convince you!
I can only provide you the information. You have free will, you can always reject the truth. But, I can not allow people to be fooled or mislead by Satan! I must speak the truth! “I’m not going to hell for anybody!” ~ Fr John Corapi **

here are a number of Catholics here that have influenced me in a positive way to reconsider where I am, what communion I adhere to - Ralphinal, tgette, Robhom, Gottle-of-Geer, and a few others - but certainly not you.

**I am glad to hear that. They are all much smafrter than I am, that is for sure! **

Perhaps if that is your goal, you may consider the vinegar vs. honey analogy. You motives may be pure, but your tactics stink.

**Well I was a soldier, my tactics are part of who I am. In person we probably would be friends believe it or not. This morning I was on a abortion Line at Planned parenthood Headquarters for about 4 hours with over 2 dozen people. Half weren’t catholic. [we can tell by the Rosary being prayed! [] We talked and fellowshipped and had a friendly time even as women were going to abort God’s babies! They need our prayers Jon, the entire world need our paryers.
That is something to think about Jon, I thank you for your honest opinion. I am always praying I have to pary on your words. I know they were sincere also! Maybe my vinegar as you call it sweetens their honey?
I do know that “In the end, forever, you and I will be in Heaven or Hell. Period.” ~ Fr John Corapi. It is hard to find salvation in any false group. It is hard in the real church also. God judges and I read and Jesus’ words spoke true to me! Protestants ignore His words and twist them to apply to their falty belief system. There is only one true church which teaches what Jesus wanted taught. Remember “Jesus taught orally, He did not write a book.”~ Fr John Corapi

The Bible supports the Catholic church on every opint and proves its authority to teach and control christians. It also supports the true presence even if many Protestants don’t believe it and the ones that do believe it reject the only place they could actually receive it!

God Bless **

 

[Realcatholicgk]

**

Hi Friends,

I just wanted to invite you to a lighthearted Thread I started asking about Humor in Catholicism. Come and see what you think!

Click On: Is There Humor in Catholicism**

We should also have humor in our hearts and lives!

God Bless

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Hi, JonNC,

Thanks for the quote from the Augsburg Confession…

…but, I am blown away by the quote you have at the bottom of your post from now Pope Benedict XVI:
Even a theology oriented to the concept of succession, such as that which holds in the Catholic and in the Orthodox church, need not in any way deny the salvation-granting presence of the Lord in a Lutheran Lord’s Supper.
-Cardinal Ratzinger

I totally missed this - my idea is that you need to have a valid celebrant. To the best of my knowledge, Luther was not a Bishop and there were no ordained priests in the Lutheran group. So, there could not be the consecration of the common bread and wine into the Body, Blood, Human Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ because of the lack of a valid minister.

Can anyone bring me up t speed on what Cardinal Ratzinger means by this?

Thanks

God bless

It means that lack of valid sacraments need not stop a Church being a means of salvation. IOW, God can save through the Lutheran Churches.​

IOW - God is not the prisoner or puppet or poodle of the Pope. He does not need Rome’s permission or agreement to act as God - He is is not a tribal fetish, & His faithfulness to Church X as promised, does not imply, & is not to be construed as, lack of activity among Churches Y to W. Where Catholics go wrong is in taking for granted (on insufficient grounds) that God’s faithfulness to the CC must imply absence from any other Church. Not that Catholics are alone in this . The reason, is perhaps an insufficient appreciation of the graciousness of God. (And a failure to take account of the Biblical data on this subject: Amos & Jesus give the idea of Divine election of a people (which is involved here) some very interesting twists…

 

[Hajnalcsillag]

It means that lack of valid sacraments need not stop a Church being a means of salvation. IOW, God can save through the Lutheran Churches.​

IOW - God is not the prisoner or puppet or poodle of the Pope. He does not need Rome’s permission or agreement to act as God - He is is not a tribal fetish, & His faithfulness to Church X as promised, does not imply, & is not to be construed as, lack of activity among Churches Y to W. Where Catholics go wrong is in taking for granted (on insufficient grounds) that God’s faithfulness to the CC must imply absence from any other Church. Not that Catholics are alone in this . The reason, is perhaps an insufficient appreciation of the graciousness of God. (And a failure to take account of the Biblical data on this subject: Amos & Jesus give the idea of Divine election of a people (which is involved here) some very interesting twists…

Absolutely correct. In 1 Samuel, the Israelites took the Ark of the Covenant into battle against the Philistines in the (mistaken) belief that where the Ark was, there God was. Either they didn’t recognize or didn’t care that the Ark wasn’t some magical talisman that guaranteed the presence of God; God is free to withdraw if He so desires.

And since the Ark was captured in battle, it’s quite apparent that He had in fact withdrawn due to the sin of Israel.

 

[JonNC]

=Realcatholicgk;4748130]
I think Protestants are wrong. My church thinks Protestant are wrong.Did you actually mean to say “tone”?

Yes, tone.

Sounds good but not true! Protestants turned their backs on Jesus they must turn around! The Catholic church will greet them with open arms like the father did his son!

CCC 817

817 In fact, “in this one and only Church of God from its very beginnings there arose certain rifts, which the Apostle strongly censures as damnable. But in subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions appeared and large communities became separated from full communion with the Catholic Church - for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame.”

I thank God that our new Pope is finally getting the Catholic church back on the correct path.

Are you saying it was on the wrong path? How so?

It is sincere!

Sincerity never doubted. I sincerely believe you have no idea how your words are hurtful, and appear hateful.

Actually it is exactly how our church describes your
group.

818 "However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."272

819 "Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth"273 are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements."274 Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him,275 and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity."276

Jon -

How about, “you are following a mistaken understanding of the truth”, or “your doctrine cannot be completely support by scripture and Tradition”.

gk -

That differs from “you are following a counterfeit religion”, or “your beliefs are false made by the Devil” how?

I am simply amazed you cannot see the difference.

I am glad to hear that. They are all much smafrter than I am, that is for sure!

Not so. Just willing to share their faith with love and charity, instead of swinging it as if it were a sword.

Well I was a soldier, my tactics are part of who I am. In person we probably would be friends believe it or not. This morning I was on a abortion Line at Planned parenthood Headquarters for about 4 hours with over 2 dozen people. Half weren’t catholic. [we can tell by the Rosary being prayed! [] We talked and fellowshipped and had a friendly time even as women were going to abort God’s babies! They need our prayers Jon, the entire world need our paryers.

I honor you for your work for God’s unborn children. We can join our prayers together for them.

That is something to think about Jon, I thank you for your honest opinion. I am always praying I have to pary on your words. I know they were sincere also! Maybe my vinegar as you call it sweetens their honey?

And I thank you, as well.

The Bible supports the Catholic church on every opint and proves its authority to teach and control christians. It also supports the true presence even if many Protestants don’t believe it and the ones that do believe it reject the only place they could actually receive it!

I pray He blesses you in word and sacrament tomorrow, even as I pray He blesses me. Someday, I hope soon, we will be able to share is Eucharist together at one table.

Jon

 

[JonNC]

It means that lack of valid sacraments need not stop a Church being a means of salvation. IOW, God can save through the Lutheran Churches.​

IOW - God is not the prisoner or puppet or poodle of the Pope. He does not need Rome’s permission or agreement to act as God - He is is not a tribal fetish, & His faithfulness to Church X as promised, does not imply, & is not to be construed as, lack of activity among Churches Y to W. Where Catholics go wrong is in taking for granted (on insufficient grounds) that God’s faithfulness to the CC must imply absence from any other Church. Not that Catholics are alone in this . The reason, is perhaps an insufficient appreciation of the graciousness of God. (And a failure to take account of the Biblical data on this subject: Amos & Jesus give the idea of Divine election of a people (which is involved here) some very interesting twists…

Hajnalcsillag

Absolutely correct. In 1 Samuel, the Israelites took the Ark of the Covenant into battle against the Philistines in the (mistaken) belief that where the Ark was, there God was. Either they didn’t recognize or didn’t care that the Ark wasn’t some magical talisman that guaranteed the presence of God; God is free to withdraw if He so desires.

And since the Ark was captured in battle, it’s quite apparent that He had in fact withdrawn due to the sin of Israel.

Thanks, both of you.
Jon

 

[Realcatholicgk]

JonNC:

**
Hi Jon,

I guess I have to teach you about how the Catholic church works, that is understandable. You quote the CCC. Actually the most relevant and authoritative Catholic document is the Code of Canon Law. It actually says that to be “Chrirtian Faithful” the people must obey the Church. Protestants have no rights under our code. It’s true that the CCC is more familiar to most readers, You must know and remember that, like Vatican II, It is not a legal document and does not create any legal obligations for the faithful. Instead, it is a teaching document of opinions and beliefs held by the church. You want to “use” the CCC to support your position. How precious is that? you deny the authority of our church and then attempt to bind us to your misinterptetation of our beliefs and doctrines. I cite, as it should be, papal bulls or the Code when stating official Catholic doctrine. Here is your Home work:**

Click on: Code of Canon Law**

1520AD (June 15) Exsurge Domine **(“Arise, O Lord”) Protestant views were condemned as heretical. Leo X demands that Martin Luther retract 41 of his 95 theses, as well as other specified errors, within sixty days of its publication in neighbouring regions to Saxony.

1521AD (January 3) Decet Romanum Pontificem (“It befits the Roman Pontiff”) Leo X excommunicates Martin Luther.

1559 (February 15) Cum ex apostolatus officio Pope Paul IV confirms that only Catholics can be elected Popes.

1570 (February 25) Regnans in Excelsis ("Ruling from on high) Pius V dclares Elizabeth I of England a heretic.

1653 (May 31) Cum occasione Innocent X condemns 5 Jansenist propositions.

1713 Unigenitus Clement XI condemns Jansenism.
1850 (September 29) Universalis Ecclesiae Pius IX recreates the Roman Catholic hierarchy in England.

1896 Apostolicae Curae Leo XIII declares all Anglican Holy Orders null and void.

Are you saying it was on the wrong path? How so?

**
The Catholic church started to indorce the lie that Protestants were actually followers of Christ hoping to bring them back into the real church. The Devil saw this as an additional opportunity to obtain souls.


**Click on: Realcatholicsgk Supports The Pope’s Position! ****

Pope Benedict XVI says it is impossible for Protestants to be considered christians because they do not follow the teachings of Jesus! They do not have apologetic succession to “legalize” them! Gottle of Geer can say IOW all night long, as Fr John Corapi would say: "that’s what comes under the theological classification of ‘happy horse manure’ Got it? that’s what that is! That’s bologna, absolute bologna! " I actually couldn’t state it any better

The holy Roman Catholic church sets church dogmas nor Gottle of Geer or Realcatholic. IMHO GofG is spouting heresies in an authoritative way – beware of him! The Pope wuld never attempt to tell God what to do. But we know that the HS reveals God’s will to the Popes.

Sincerity never doubted. I sincerely believe you have no idea how your words are hurtful, and appear hateful.

**Because they are not said with hate. I know that the truth hurts sometimes. Just like the CCC says that we can’t blame the children raised up in counterfeit groups for the sins of their fathers, I don’t think members of the real church should be blamed for it either. We are all the same. We are all sinners! We all fall short of the glory of God! Jesus died for our sins. He gave His live as a gift. I can’t figure anyone turning their backs on Him and His gift!

" Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you—unless, of course, you fail the test? ~ 2Co. 13 5 Jesus is speaking specifically to people who are devotedly religious-but who are deluded in thinking they are on the road to heaven when they are really on the broad road to hell. They are not unlike those in the last days who Paul says will hold a form of godliness but will deny its power read 2 Tim. 3:5.**

Not so. Just willing to share their faith with love and charity, instead of swinging it as if it were a sword.

**Not so. They seem willing to agree with you that isn’t the real faith! It just isn’t. I thin k it is more like a machete, like I used in the jungles in Nam. I am using the truth in an attempt to remove the seperant from around your soul! It is done with real love and complete charity. If I wasn’t charitable, I would just let the Devil have you. I am sorry If it scares you! **

**
I honor you for your work for God’s unborn children. We can join our prayers together for them.**

**I respect you as a good person! I believe that if not for our prayers, God would bring great judgment on our country. We really have to pray for President Obama, that God changes his heart! **

And I thank you, as well.

**You are a good man Jon, I can feel that in your postings. I mean you, nor any Protestant, any personal insult. I truly do not! **

I pray He blesses you in word and sacrament tomorrow, even as I pray He blesses me. Someday, I hope soon, we will be able to share is Eucharist together at one table.

**Thanks! To share the Eucharist together would be nice! I will come to your confirmation, if you invite me! Since 1935, our two churches have been attempting to reconsile. I don’t see it ever happening. But we can pray for that! God can and has done the impossible before.

God Bless **

 

[benedictus2]

It means that lack of valid sacraments need not stop a Church being a means of salvation. IOW, God can save through the Lutheran Churches.​

IOW - God is not the prisoner or puppet or poodle of the Pope. He does not need Rome’s permission or agreement to act as God -…

True God is not the prisoner or puppet of the Pope. No one here says He is.

But one thing most Protestants fail to grasp is that God WILLED it this way. Otherwise, why did he bother establishing a church when He could have easily just caused what He needed to be written, to be written without the need of a Church.

God could have effected salvation another way yet He CHOSE to die on the Cross, He CHOSE TO BUILD HIS CHURCH UPON PETER, He CHOSE to say those words in John 6.

All these are God’s CHOICES.

 

[thirdn6]

What does “MEANS OF SALVATION” imply as used in the CCC? Is it that ALL ecclesial communities can standalone individually as a way to salvation? I don’t think so.

Read what the Lord had said in Luke 9:xx "49 And John, answering, said: Master, we saw a certain man casting out devil in thy name: and we forbade him, because he followeth not with us. 50 And Jesus said to him: Forbid him not: for he that is not against you is for you.

Now, let’s assume to be true that all these ecclesial churches work for the evangelization of their respective communities or members. Because of what they do (spreading the gospel, reading the bible, fellowships, etc.) they cretainly are not against us, right? So then, they are for us!

Look at the those words again… “Forbid him not…” meaning “Allow him: for he that is not against you is for you.” or ‘Allow them for who are not against you are for you.’

The “man casting out devil in Jesus name” was actually considered “for” them. He was allowed to do what he was doing although he didn’t belong to them because what he was doing was not against them.

Now let’s go to Matthew 7:xx 21 “Not every one who says to me, Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, `I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers.”

Why? Why is it that those "men casting out demons in his name " are now called evildoers? What wrong have they done?

If you look closely at the previous verse, they’re seen merely as “instruments” casting away demons from afflicted people. Although at first look they were doing it “for” Jesus’ group, it was clear they didn’t belong to His group. And what’s probably need emphasized here was the result of what they were doing - people were expelled of demons!

Would that be comparable to these ecclesial churches? Absolutely. They re-‘awaken’ their people’s faith. They ‘un-paganized’ them. They ‘kickstart’ them of their spiritual lives. But it’s them who are more important to the Lord - the result - to be eventually brought back to his Church not the cleverness of their leaders.

These ecclesial churches then are here implied only as ‘means or instruments’ in the sense that they’re not against us. Nothing more. They are not another group, per se, where salvation can be possible.
That’s what the CCC is telling us here.

And their leaders …???
O brother, where art thou? 'Thought I heard you calling…“Lord, Lord…”

 

[Bruno_Schulz]

**Its very much surprising that any Christian would say NO, Jesus did not say “this Bread is My Body and this Wine is My Blood?”

Surely Non-Christians voted for “NO” in this poll (16% of all who voted) – a great lot though. Protestants do believe in THIS IS MY FLESH – this is my blood – but they wrongly say. This is so to those who believe in God only, and they throw the non-used eucharistic bread away. One of some great differences between Catholics and Protestants.

These above mentioned 16% are heathens, who say Mt 26,28 + Mk 14,24 + Joh 6,54 + Luke 22,19 are lies; the Bible is a story-book.

Let them. It’s no use to argue. They will see one day.

St. Paul often mentioned Ezekiel 3,27:
But when I speak to you, I will open your mouth and you shall say to them, 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says. “Whoever will listen let him listen, and whoever will refuse let him refuse; for they are a rebellious house.”

**

 

[Hajnalcsillag]

**Hi Gottle,

IMHO that is an easy one! Satan clouded their minds over 500 years ago and the dance goes on!

The real truth is: No one can know what Protestants think! They have a mixture of 1,375 doctrines, dogmas, and beliefs. Some don’t think Jesus was God! Some think you have to worship on Saturdays! Some think the bible is the sole authority for their beliefs and practices, yet they don’t follow it! Some think Jesus drank grape juice and called it wine! Some think jesus had brothers and sisters,** Some think they can be saved by faith alone in trusting Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior! Some think that OSAS, Some believe that to disrespect Jesus’ Mother doesn’t violate the commandment to Honor your Father and Mother. Some think they can be saved by faith alone. Some don’t think Jesus is really presence in the Eucharist! Some don’t believe the Catholic church is the real church, well actually more than some have that foolish belief!

God Bless

There is more statements in the Gospels about Jesus having brothers and sisters than there are about eating flesh and drinking blood.

The better question is this. Why does Rome treat the statements regarding the brothers of Jesus as symbolic but accept the statements of flesh and blood as absolutely literal?

 

[Realcatholicgk]

**Its very much surprising that any Christian would say NO, Jesus did not say “this Bread is My Body and this Wine is My Blood?”

Surely Non-Christians voted for “NO” in this poll (16% of all who voted) – a great lot though. Protestants do believe in THIS IS MY FLESH – this is my blood – but they wrongly say. This is so to those who believe in God only, and they throw the non-used eucharistic bread away. One of some great differences between Catholics and Protestants.

These above mentioned 16% are heathens, who say Mt 26,28 + Mk 14,24 + Joh 6,54 + Luke 22,19 are lies; the Bible is a story-book.

Let them. It’s no use to argue. They will see one day.

St. Paul often mentioned Ezekiel 3,27:
But when I speak to you, I will open your mouth and you shall say to them, 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says. “Whoever will listen let him listen, and whoever will refuse let him refuse; for they are a rebellious house.”

**
**

Hi Bruno,

There are people here in USA now telling me to be more “Christ Like” Like Christ was a whimp (Do you know that word?). I know you sometimes hear the same. It comes from Satan attempting to fool us into believing that all groups follow Jesus and therefore are the Same as real christians. We both know better, as does all right thinking followers of Christ. They aren’t in our parade! T!hey say I am not gentle enough. They think Jesus was!gentle to false believers!

Jesus publicly rebuked the hypocrites, “Woe unto you… hypocrites!..ye blind guides…fools…full of extortion and excess…whited sepulchres…full of hypocrisy and iniquity…Woe unto you…Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?” MATT23:

Jesus said, "He that rejecteth Me, and receiveth not My words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day."JOHN 12:48:

Many Protestants believe in Pro-choice forgetting there is a God:

“Keep yourself far from a false matter; do not kill the innocent and righteous. For I will not justify the wicked.” Exodus 23:7

“Cursed is the one who takes a bribe to slay an innocent person.” Deuteronomy 27:25

It is Jesus that sets the standard and passes the judgment. You and I are just witnessesi. We simply pass on the information.

How do we fight the Devil? “How do we fight this evil? First, with the truth. Put on the whole armor of GOD. Take the shield of faith. Take the helmet of salvation, and the two edged sword of the Spirit. Gird your loins with truth. Look to the teachings of the Pope and the Magisterium for the truth. Faith must be important, for without it, you can’t please GOD. Believe everything the Holy Church has presented for our belief. That is faith.” - Fr John Corapi

God Bless
**