Protestants: Have you changed your mind on anything "Catholic" because of something said on these forums?

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One of the problems with reconcilliation of Catholics and Protestants is that we don’t really listen to what the other is saying. There is so much that we have in common and in these things it is possible to come closer together.

Human nature being what it is, still seems bent upon declaring what I believe to be the truth, rather than accepting truth where it may be found, in Christ.

If we we all to stand before Christ, what would we say to oneanother?
 
One of the problems with reconcilliation of Catholics and Protestants is that we don’t really listen to what the other is saying. There is so much that we have in common and in these things it is possible to come closer together.

Human nature being what it is, still seems bent upon declaring what I believe to be the truth, rather than accepting truth where it may be found, in Christ.

If we we all to stand before Christ, what would we say to oneanother?
Hear! Hear!:love: :love: :love: :love: :love:
 
Your wrong !! EWTN Radio reports that 5000 0f 42,000 Catholic priest have been found guilty or are suspect of Child Molesting . That is about 11% and also only those cases reported. Also the Catholic Church has spent years trying to cover it up and Millons of dollars in Law suits. Those are the facts.
Bastions of conservative thought:rolleyes: , The New York Times and Boston Globe, did studies on this years ago, in an effort to join the witch hunt. Their findings? Going back to the 1930’s anywhere between 1/12 - 4% of Catholic priests engaged in sexual abuse of minors. The percentage is less than the general public. Much of it involved consensual homosexual activity with boys aged 15-18.

Pedophiles and molesters have one thing in common. Whenever possible, they seek professions of trust. Pastors, priests, doctors. coaches, rabbi’s, teachers, firemen, police officers, day care providers, etc. are the positions of choice.

Catholics are singled out because of the deep pockets and general hatred for anything religious. In Oregon and California, the time limits for torts were waived in cases dealing with Christian faiths. Nothing was done to allow suits to be made against any other groups or individuals to have the filing time limits waived.

I don’t know who misspoke on EWTN or why, but after devoting much of my career to sex offenders, I do know 12% is exaggerated.
 
Your wrong !! EWTN Radio reports that 5000 0f 42,000 Catholic priest have been found guilty or are suspect of Child Molesting . That is about 11% and also only those cases reported. Also the Catholic Church has spent years trying to cover it up and Millons of dollars in Law suits. Those are the facts.
well… i heard from 2 different reliable sources that it was less than 2%…

i guess it just goes to show… can’t trust statistics…

But i do think that there is a lot of evil in the Church… and i often wonder why that is so… For one thing, Satan apparently asked God for permission to destroy the Church… Satan is far more powerful than we humans are… which is why we must stay close to Crhist… and be willing to give up all to folow him… If we don’t, we will fall vicitm to the world, the flesh and the devil…
Celibacy isvery difficult. I ought to know. I have been celibate for a very long time. It seems “that nature” of ours has a ^&^%$ mind of its own… :mad: :eek: :rolleyes:
To molest a child is really sick… (obviously)… so i probably shouldn’t even be talking about the difficulties of celibacy in the same post as molestation… I am just writing what comes to my mind…
Anyway… i am disgusted with all that i have seen in the Church… it is all i can do to … stay Catholic sometimes… but there are a lot of things i don’t understand… and must just give to God… (long story what i mean…)

God bless…
 
I included the highest statistical study number I could find (4%) so there would be no way to refute it…NYT was the big banana, coming after a couple of years of hateful innuendo and anecdotes, it really had to devour some crow.

There’s a whole other thread to be had on some of the why’s the Church waited so long. I give the bishops, a pass until the mandatory reporting laws came into play (in California, not until the 1990’s) I cannot tell you the number of molesters that had page after page of convictions, that never went to jail up until the 90’s. It was after that pedophilia and molestation was recognized for the pathological evil it is. As for anyone who kept it a secret post MRL’s, church boards, teachers and police unions, county supervisors and city councils, pastorals, and yes, bishops, my general approach has been burn 'em all.
well… i heard from 2 different reliable sources that it was less than 2%…

i guess it just goes to show… can’t trust statistics…

But i do think that there is a lot of evil in the Church… and i often wonder why that is so… For one thing, Satan apparently asked God for permission to destroy the Church… Satan is far more powerful than we humans are… which is why we must stay close to Crhist… and be willing to give up all to folow him… If we don’t, we will fall vicitm to the world, the flesh and the devil…
Celibacy isvery difficult. I ought to know. I have been celibate for a very long time. It seems “that nature” of ours has a ^&^%$ mind of its own… :mad: :eek: :rolleyes:
To molest a child is really sick… (obviously)… so i probably shouldn’t even be talking about the difficulties of celibacy in the same post as molestation… I am just writing what comes to my mind…
Anyway… i am disgusted with all that i have seen in the Church… it is all i can do to … stay Catholic sometimes… but there are a lot of things i don’t understand… and must just give to God… (long story what i mean…)

God bless…
 
But the 2004 figures do not fundamentally alter the patterns found last year in a major study of sexual abuse in the church from 1950 to 2002. As in the past, about 80 percent of the 1,083 victims who came forward in 2004 are male, and the majority said they were between the ages of 10 and 14 when the abuse began. Most of the alleged incidents took place in the 1960s and '70s.

washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A36324-2005Feb18.html

The John Jay report findings:

*The Report found accusations against 4,392 priests in the USA, about 4% of all priests.

. . .

One of the most startling examples of sex abuse occurred in Ireland, where Father Brendan Smyth systematically raped and sexually abused hundreds of boys between 1945 and 1989. The investigation of the Smyth case was obstructed by the Norbertine Order. This was also seen in other cases, such as that of Fr. Jim Grennan, a parish priest, who abused children as they prepared for First Communion, and Fr. Sean Fortune, who committed suicide before his trial for the rape of children. The abuse by Grennan and others in the Diocese of Ferns in south-east Ireland led to the resignation of the local bishop, Brendan Comiskey.

. . .

Some bishops have been heavily criticized for moving offending priests from parish to parish, where they still had personal contact with children, rather than seeking to have them permanently removed from the priesthood. Instead of reporting the incidents to police, many dioceses simply submitted the offending priests for psychological treatment and assessment. The priests resumed their previous duties with children only when the bishop was advised by the treating psychologists or psychiatrists that it was safe for them to resume their duties.*

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Catholic_sex_abuse_cases#Sexual_abuse

This is a snapshot of the situation. I earlier commented with surprise at the numbers cited by another poster, which put the percentage of offending clergymen at approximately 11.9%. However, I didn’t question those numbers – and I should have checked them against credible sources (I admit being a non-Catholic this is not a topic I harp on much or know much about beyond some media reports I’ve heard over the years). At any rate I took some time to look at the real numbers & here’s what I found:

The number cited here reports nearly 5,000 priests are alleged to have committed such crimes (and out slightly more than 40,000 priests in the U.S., which would make the number close to 12%). So I see how the number was arrived at; however, it seems perhaps the basis of that statistic was arrived at through a rudimentary calculation rather than a proper statistical sampling.

For example, this scandal occurred over a period of decades. Hence not all of the offending priests were in their clerical position at the same time. Therefore, it seems logical to assume that at any one time there were only 4% of sexually deviant priests occupying the priesthood.

That being said I’m still quite stunned at the response of the church. To move those priests, after counseling, to another position where they had further contact with children is inexcusable. It is well know that pedophilia cannot be treated (and it was well know back then as well). All I can say is the lawyers of these victims are having a field day (they’re eating steak and lobster, drinking top shelf martinis, and smoking Cubans every night on you guys).

I honestly wouldn’t know where to start as far as suggesting a fix for this problem? I don’t know enough to say it’s celibacy per se at it’s root. Obviously if 96% of all priests are honorable it can hardly be conclusively said that celibacy is a bad idea. However, I do know celibacy was not required in the early church. Beyond that I’m not well informed on this topic – so I’ll withhold comment.
 
That being said I’m still quite stunned at the response of the church. To move those priests, after counseling, to another position where they had further contact with children is inexcusable. It is well know that pedophilia cannot be treated (and it was well know back then as well). All I can say is the lawyers of these victims are having a field day (they’re eating steak and lobster, drinking top shelf martinis, and smoking Cubans every night on you guys).

I honestly wouldn’t know where to start as far as suggesting a fix for this problem? I don’t know enough to say it’s celibacy per se at it’s root. Obviously if 96% of all priests are honorable it can hardly be conclusively said that celibacy is a bad idea. However, I do know celibacy was not required in the early church. Beyond that I’m not well informed on this topic – so I’ll withhold comment.
Pedophilia was considered a treatable disorder for decades. Not just in the world of Catholic clerics, but also teachers, cops, firemen, pastors, rabbi’s, coaches, etc. No one here can imagine the frustration of having the same teacher returned to an elementary school after “successful therapy” on numerous occasions. It was a pervasive belief throughout the social-psychology world that treatment would be the best course of action for all parties.

Celibacy is not the magic bullet. Not even close. With familiar offenders, pedophiles and molesters marry a woman with small children to get to the kids. The molestation can then go on for decades, The woman is not selected arbitrarily. She has an extremely low self esteem and an unwillingness to confront or be alone.

The answer? With a successful treatment rate of 1-2%, the immediate response of “Devil’s Island” comes to mind. Simplistic, I know. What we have now is unacceptable on many levels, including compassion for the offender (I can explain that one, it just takes awhile) in light of the Jessica’s Law boondoggle.
 
Please let us know what it is. Thanks… 🙂
More of a confirmation and personal belief. I truly believe that there are regenerate Protestants and Catholics alike. And, there are Protestants and Catholics who have not been united to Christ, having a James 2 faith. Salvation is of the Lord, and the wind blows (John 3).
 
Pedophilia was considered a treatable disorder for decades. Not just in the world of Catholic clerics, but also teachers, cops, firemen, pastors, rabbi’s, coaches, etc. No one here can imagine the frustration of having the same teacher returned to an elementary school after “successful therapy” on numerous occasions. It was a pervasive belief throughout the social-psychology world that treatment would be the best course of action for all parties.

Celibacy is not the magic bullet. Not even close. With familiar offenders, pedophiles and molesters marry a woman with small children to get to the kids. The molestation can then go on for decades, The woman is not selected arbitrarily. She has an extremely low self esteem and an unwillingness to confront or be alone.

The answer? With a successful treatment rate of 1-2%, the immediate response of “Devil’s Island” comes to mind. Simplistic, I know. What we have now is unacceptable on many levels, including compassion for the offender (I can explain that one, it just takes awhile) in light of the Jessica’s Law boondoggle.
Prison is a surer bet. Not that I’m not all for forgiveness; but this isn’t the case of some guy who has a curable disorder (like he needed a fix a robbed a liquor store or something). These are people who will always want to rape our children.

I’m sure if they repent God will forgive them & if it were my child I would pray that I can forgive them. But society must put them in prison and keep them there as long as possible. Look at it this way, if they do repent at least they can’t repeat their sin in a prison cell.
 
Pedophilia was considered a treatable disorder for decades. Not just in the world of Catholic clerics, but also teachers, cops, firemen, pastors, rabbi’s, coaches, etc. No one here can imagine the frustration of having the same teacher returned to an elementary school after “successful therapy” on numerous occasions. It was a pervasive belief throughout the social-psychology world that treatment would be the best course of action for all parties.

Celibacy is not the magic bullet. Not even close. With familiar offenders, pedophiles and molesters marry a woman with small children to get to the kids. The molestation can then go on for decades, The woman is not selected arbitrarily. She has an extremely low self esteem and an unwillingness to confront or be alone.

The answer? With a successful treatment rate of 1-2%, the immediate response of “Devil’s Island” comes to mind. Simplistic, I know. What we have now is unacceptable on many levels, including compassion for the offender (I can explain that one, it just takes awhile) in light of the Jessica’s Law boondoggle.
I am soooooo sorry.** I meant to say ENDING CELIBACY IS NOT THE MAGIC BULLET.**
 
Prison is a surer bet. Not that I’m not all for forgiveness; but this isn’t the case of some guy who has a curable disorder (like he needed a fix a robbed a liquor store or something). These are people who will always want to rape our children.

I’m sure if they repent God will forgive them & if it were my child I would pray that I can forgive them. But society must put them in prison and keep them there as long as possible. Look at it this way, if they do repent at least they can’t repeat their sin in a prison cell.
Hmmm …

Well, I suppose there’s something to that idea – and it would serve as a good deterrent to potential molesters.
 
You don’t know how tough it is to see all those straight lines for ending celibacy in the priesthood and just let them pass.

JJ
 
BTW, even if it doesn’t always seem like it (particularly when you read certain Catholic bloggers), the attitude of Catholics toward married priests has definitely changed since the end of the 19th century.

Consider
The Roman Catholic archbishops met again in September of 1893 and addressed the issue of married priests in America. Cardinal Ledochowski had replied to Archbishop Corrigan’s letter from the November meeting of 1892 and had stated that the married priests “might be retained pro tempore [for the time being], but that as far as possible Greek monks (i.e., Ruthenian Catholic) should be procured.” The prudence of the Prefect was not a gift enjoyed by the American archbishops. In November of 1892 they had politely ignored Father Chanath’s urgent plea. Now, not quite one year later, they scorned the worth of the Greek Rite Ruthenian Catholics. They resolved:
“that the presence of married priests of the Greek Rite in our midst is a constant menace to the chastity of our unmarried clergy, a source of scandal to the laity and therefore the sooner this point of discipline is abolished before these evils obtain large proportions, the better for religion, because the possible loss of a few souls of the Greek Rite bears no proportion to the blessings resulting from uniformity of discipline.
The die was cast. The Ruthenian Catholic Church in the United States could expect no sympathy from the Roman Catholic Church unless it conformed to the latter’s discipline. The rightful place of the married clergy and their supporters among the Greek Rite faithful was resigned to the Orthodox, the “schismatic” Church.
Quote taken from a webpage of the Catholic Information Network.
 
If the Roman Catholoc Church Allows Priest to get married they will be admitting one more time that Martin Luther was right.
 
There’s nothing wrong with admitting that Martin Luther was partially right on some things.

See for example the Why does not the pope liberate everyone from purgatory for the sake of love thread.
You know Peter…I read through that thread and what is funny about that whole discussion is that that statement “why doesnt the pope release all the souls in purgatory” was NOT Luther’s statement.

One must have a context of what Luther is doing at this point in his theses. Luther is actually defending the Pope! Let me post the theses before and after theses 82 about purgatory…Luther is addressing the indulgence preachers:
  1. The pope** justly** thunders against those who, by any art, contrive the injury of the traffic in pardons.
  2. But much more does he intend to thunder against those who use the pretext of pardons to contrive the injury of holy love and truth.
  3. To think the papal pardons so great that they could absolve a man even if he had committed an impossible sin and violated the Mother of God – this is madness.
  4. We say, on the contrary, that the papal pardons are not able to remove the very least of venial sins, so far as its guilt is concerned.
  5. It is said that even St. Peter, if he were now Pope, could not bestow greater graces; this is blasphemy against St. Peter and against the pope.
  6. We say, on the contrary, that even the present pope, and any pope at all, has greater graces at his disposal; to wit, the Gospel, powers, gifts of healing, etc., as it is written in I. Corinthians xii.
  7. To say that the cross, emblazoned with the papal arms, which is set up [by the preachers of indulgences], is of equal worth with the Cross of Christ, is blasphemy.
  8. The bishops, curates and theologians who allow such talk to be spread among the people, will have an account to render.
  9. This unbridled preaching of pardons makes it no easy matter, even for learned men, to rescue the reverence due to the pope from slander, or even from **the shrewd questionings of the laity. **
  10. To wit: – “Why does not the pope empty purgatory, for the sake of holy love and of the dire need of the souls that are there, if he redeems an infinite number of souls for the sake of miserable money with which to build a Church? The former reasons would be most just; the latter is most trivial.”
Luther is saying because of the abuses of the indulgences preachers the laity are asking this of the Pope. Luther is not.
 
^^ Ah … good point. Although I think you ought to post it on that other thread, if you want the relevant people to see it.
 
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