Protestants, how can this be possible?

[ChosenAndCalled]

I am a member of the Presbyterian Church in America. We’re five point Calvinists to most people, but it is closer to say we’re Augustinian in nature. I equate Augustine’s writings to something like the Constitution and the Calvin’s Institutes as something like the Federalist Papers.

Of note, I am not protestant – I am not protesting anything. I’m a member of the Reformed Faith. That’s how we refer to ourselves and what we believe. That may be a fine distinction to some of you here, but it is one I like to make clear. Just as Catholic’s may not like being called papists, I push back against protestant. It’s just mutual politeness, in the end.

One grand thing about being in the Reformed Faith is that we believe there is only one church – the universal, or catholic Church. All of God’s chosen and called are part of it. We also hold that the church is the only church ever founded; God founded it as He cast Adam and Eve out of the garden. He gave them a promise of a savior – Christ – and that was the cornerstone of His church.

So, my “church” isn’t 500 years old, or even 30. It’s been running along just fine since God started it. All of those who are given hearts of flesh for hearts of stone, made alive in Christ and redeemed are part of that church.

One poster said all “protestant” churchs are founded on some notion that an individual can find truth on his or her own. Far from it. My church holds to a set of teachings handed down shortly after the Reformation called the Westminster Confession of Faith. It was created in a similar way to Catholic councils – we believe it was created under the influence of the Holy Spirit. Now, being Reformed, we don’t hold that it is by nature infallible. We believe it to be true, but are open to the fact it may not. Having a personal “revelation” that it is not true is not acceptable, though. It would take a new council to amend it.

So, you “young un’s” whose church is only 2000 years old (it’s a jest, kind of a reverse tease at all the comments about the Catholic church’s age versus most non-Catholic churchs) are the new kids on the block as far as I’m concerned.

 

[Bill_Pick]

Follow Yeshua;5686204:

I believe that there are many denominations of “Bible Believing Christianity” because we cannot agree on all doctrines. And that is the truth. Their is nothing to hide there or to be ashamed of.

As for me, I cannot find a Christian Church here in Phoenix that

1. Worships on the Seventh Day
2. Acknowledges that Yeshua is God
3. That doesn’t speak in tongues that can’t be interpreted
4. That doesn’t have a high priest or prophet that everybody bears testimony to other then Yeshua
5. That doesn’t have a big steeple piercing the sky (I know I’m a weirdo)
6. That preaches meat and not milk
7. That doesn’t preach prosperity.

I’m lonesome! lol

YOU NEED TO FIND A GOOD cHRISTIAN cHURCH

 

[jmcrae]

So, you “young un’s” whose church is only 2000 years old (it’s a jest, kind of a reverse tease at all the comments about the Catholic church’s age versus most non-Catholic churchs) are the new kids on the block as far as I’m concerned.

Do you believe that Jesus established the Presbyterian Church in America? And if so, what do you base that on?

Obviously as Catholics, we believe that our Covenant with God, made when Jesus died on the Cross, is the last in a line of Covenants that began with the Covenant that God made with Adam and Eve.

 

[ChosenAndCalled]

I believe that Godly men established the PCA. When I said my “church” was old, I was referring to the one Universal church that God established at the Eden event. The PCA is part of that church and its teaching draw from the traditions and teachings of our fathers and brothers.

For instance, the portion of history from when the Catholics believe Christ founded His church until Trent, we would say that my past and yours run together. It was only at Trent, that the divorce between the Reformed faith and the Catholic church was made official.

 

[Follow_Yeshua]

Bill Pick;5686455:

YOU NEED TO FIND A GOOD cHRISTIAN cHURCH

I know. But I do alot of studying on my own. I have some pretty picky needs however.

Sunday is truly out the door.

 

[JonNC]

St. Teresa of Avila in her book The Way of Perfection wrote, about the time when her girls were wandering homeless in the streets, “Our extreme poverty was our salvation - the Lutherans had no convent of ours to burn down, and no treasures of ours to steal.”

There truly was alot of violence and even hatred in those times. Pray we’ve learned from them, so as not to repeat them, and recognize the Holy Spirit in each other.

Jon

 

[Bill_Pick]

Bill Pick;5687232:

I know. But I do alot of studying on my own. I have some pretty picky needs however.

Sunday is truly out the door.

I am not trying to be smart but that may be part of your promblem the bible said we not to use Private interpretation 2 Peter 1:20

 

[jmcrae]

Well there are endless numbers of Catholic people who are heretical because I would say over 90% of them have never read the CCC.

Just because someone has never read the CCC doesn’t make him a heretic. After all, prior to 1994, 100% of Catholics had never read it - it wasn’t out, yet.

How’s that for unity?

And again, a Catholic who disagrees with the teachings of the Catholic Church knows that he is disagreeing with God. A Protestant has no way of knowing which teachings are from God, and which ones are not, because whatever he wants to believe, there is a Protestant authority out there somewhere who teaches it, and says that it comes from God. The Protestant has no way of discerning whether he is actually following God, or just his own personal opinions, because there is no definitive authority who can say, “No, this is wrong” - all he has is myriad competing authorities, all teaching different things, and all claiming to be true teachers.

 

[brb2]

Sunday is truly out the door.

The Catholic Church of Christ offers you a Saturday Mass … and everything else you need to satisfy your picky needs.

 

[JRKH]

The number of different view written in the different protestant bible demonstrate the confussion and the errors and attempts to lead others astray.
The Roman Catholic Church under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit put together the Holy Bible after the traditions of the church brought the christian leaders of the 3rd century to establish our bible which you stole from us why don’t you give it back its not yours, you have just destroyed it.
Luther and Calvin were angry, hate-mongers, desires to destroy the church. Stealing Baptism, and a bread and wine service for a spiritual communion, not the real thing.

johnXXIII,
Perhaps you should investigate the person you are responding to a bit first.
I happen to BE catholic, loyal to Christ’s teaching through the magisterium and our blessed Holy Father Pope Benedict XVI.

However, I am glad that you “mongered” at me since it gives me the opportunity to ask you to tone down the rhetoric a bit. It serves no useful purpose in these conversations and only serves to divide and get people off on tangents.
No one “Stole” the Bible from us. The Bible is freely accessable to all who wish it, Catholic or Protestant, Jew or Gentile, Christian or Not. The Bible is the Bible. it is the interpretation thereof that is in error.
I pray that you will take my words to heart in the Christian Love they are intended and remember that we are to be ever ready to make defence of our faith, but we are to do it in LOVE.

Peace
James

 

[JRKH]

Everything Justy wrote was inside my quote marks so none will come forward.

Justy,
Like I said earlier, I don’t wish to get into a lengthy debate on the issues, but I do feel the need to point out a couple of things.

1. Please don’t place your responses inside my quote. As you can see, nothing comes forward and it is a hassle for me or anyone else to untangle is to respond.
2. In your first response, you misinterpreted what I said, which was 'Most" Protestants. You translated this into “All”.
3. You say that the Bible “speaks of the Church. It doesn’t say that it is exclusively one institution”. Pray tell, then, when Jesus Prayed that His followers “Be One as He and the Father are One”, and when St Paul exhorted in his letters for the faithful to be "Of One Mind’, and when Jesus told us to take our disagreements to the Church, just how many “Institutions” (with different doctrines) was He talking about?

Honesly ask yourself this question.
If any of the Early Biblical “Church communities” founded by Paul had told Paul that they had discerned a different meaning from scripture on some point of doctrine, and they were going with their own interpretation because they just knew he was wrong, what do you think Paul’s reaction would be??
If, after the Council of Jerusalem sent their letter to Antioch, the Judaizers rejected the letter and started meeting on their own, what do you think Paul’s reaction would be?

The Idea of the "Church’ being multiple, unconnected, and doctrinally diverse communities flies in the very face of what is written in The Bible.

I know you will disagree with this which is why, when we have these kinds of discussions, I invite the other person(s) to join with me in obeying Christ’s command in Mt 18:15-18. Let us go and, “Tell it to The Church”, so that we may get a difinitive answer and maintain the Christian unity that Christ Prayed so earnestly for.

Peace
James

 

[Seeker100]

Just because someone has never read the CCC doesn’t make him a heretic. After all, prior to 1994, 100% of Catholics had never read it - it wasn’t out, yet.

And again, a Catholic who disagrees with the teachings of the Catholic Church knows that he is disagreeing with God. A Protestant has no way of knowing which teachings are from God, and which ones are not, because whatever he wants to believe, there is a Protestant authority out there somewhere who teaches it, and says that it comes from God. The Protestant has no way of discerning whether he is actually following God, or just his own personal opinions, because there is no definitive authority who can say, “No, this is wrong” - all he has is myriad competing authorities, all teaching different things, and all claiming to be true teachers.

There seems to be an idea here that without the Catholic church a person cannot know the will of God. This is not true. God is with all of us and we can follow him with or without a church. The Holy Spirit is every person’s highest authority. We all know this voice. This voice is the complete package. It tells us that love is the most important thing. All of us nomatter what we call ourselves were made by God to love everyone even people we don’t like. This is the true chruch and it runs in all denominations.

Different denominations are good. Let there be 10,000 more. It is no problem it helps Christian thought. It keep freedom of religion open. All denominations can be right as the real truth is to love. Other differences are fine. People should adhere to what works for them. The main thing is that with our lives we work as hard as we can to love others. Jesus is in all of us. The good and the bad, the believers and the non-believers. We are all to serve Him in everyone we meet. In doing that our rivers of life flow in our spirit.

 

[Seeker100]

Statistics show the number of Protestant secs at well in excess of 30,000!

I am befuddled, confused, bewildered how this can be a fact [a rapidly growing fact] and yet it does not seem to register with non-Catholics that something is obviously wrong.

I am very sincere in not being able to comprehend the lack of concern that seems to indicate that this is fine, it’s somehow God’s Will. There can only be ONE truth on any particular issue. So how can this be:shrug:

I do not mean this as a disparagement of any type. I simply am confounded that this does not raise a “red flag” and questions? Can you enlighten me?

I have been faithfully answeing your questions for more more than a year. Help me out here

Love and prayers,
Pat

Nothing is wrong. Everything is okay and is working along God’s will. There is only one truth. This truth is in us all and we all know it and can follow it if we wish. The true church is a spiritual one. It is made of the people who obey God. They are the one’s that love. It does not matter if they are in different denominations. There is always a unity with people who love. Lots of denominations is good. If gives people more of a choice on how they want to serve God and find God. It is a strengthening of Christianity. There is no need for concern. Unity in the Spirit is always there across racial, national, religious and denominational lines.

 

[GottaGo12345678]

Statistics show the number of Protestant secs at well in excess of 30,000!

I am befuddled, confused, bewildered how this can be a fact [a rapidly growing fact] and yet it does not seem to register with non-Catholics that something is obviously wrong.

I am very sincere in not being able to comprehend the lack of concern that seems to indicate that this is fine, it’s somehow God’s Will. There can only be ONE truth on any particular issue. So how can this be:shrug:

I do not mean this as a disparagement of any type. I simply am confounded that this does not raise a “red flag” and questions? Can you enlighten me?

I have been faithfully answeing your questions for more more than a year. Help me out here

Love and prayers,
Pat

Some Protestants are smart enough to know that God saves one person at a time and has nothing to do with religious affiliation, which should be a red flag for you.

 

[johnXXIII]

And the means of this unity was established by God: the Catholic Church. I’m not sure what the point of dialogue is if this is overlooked.

The many demoninations regularly meet to discuss their commitment to god and our simularities and prayers. We discuss the bibles and find common ground of our individuals beliefs. Faith is still a supernatural gift from God. Yes, its possible that God wants you to a Catholic and your best friend a Baptist.Two hundred years ago we were killing each other for our faiths, now we try to understand each other.:
We are not doing it for union, we are not interested in conversions, God will take care of that Himself.

 

[johnXXIII]

Some Protestants are smart enough to know that God saves one person at a time and has nothing to do with religious affiliation, which should be a red flag for you.

Every man and woman are born with the faith of God in their hearts and souls. It is possible to be very good people. What are you missing; The God that lives in you wnats to come into your body and soul in communion, He has given you the beatitudes and the sacraments to bring you closer to Him. The rules of the Roman Catholic Church areeasy stepping stones to happiness in love with our creator, look what you arre missing!!!

 

[johnXXIII]

There seems to be an idea here that without the Catholic church a person cannot know the will of God. This is not true. God is with all of us and we can follow him with or without a church. The Holy Spirit is every person’s highest authority. We all know this voice. This voice is the complete package. It tells us that love is the most important thing. All of us nomatter what we call ourselves were made by God to love everyone even people we don’t like. This is the true chruch and it runs in all denominations.

Different denominations are good. Let there be 10,000 more. It is no problem it helps Christian thought. It keep freedom of religion open. All denominations can be right as the real truth is to love. Other differences are fine. People should adhere to what works for them. The main thing is that with our lives we work as hard as we can to love others. Jesus is in all of us. The good and the bad, the believers and the non-believers. We are all to serve Him in everyone we meet. In doing that our rivers of life flow in our spirit.

John6:52
At this the Jews quarreled among themselves saying, How can he give us his flesh to eat? There upon Jesus said to them
Let me solemnly assure you, if you do not eat the flesh f the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you He who feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has life eternal and I will raise him up on the last day.’’
Only Catholics go to heaven?

 

[luke1_28]

Nothing is wrong. Everything is okay and is working along God’s will. There is only one truth. This truth is in us all and we all know it and can follow it if we wish. The true church is a spiritual one. It is made of the people who obey God. They are the one’s that love. It does not matter if they are in different denominations. There is always a unity with people who love. Lots of denominations is good. If gives people more of a choice on how they want to serve God and find God. It is a strengthening of Christianity. There is no need for concern. Unity in the Spirit is always there across racial, national, religious and denominational lines.

• Nothing is wrong. - Look around you.
• Everything is okay and is working along God’s will. - God allows evil so that a greater good may come from it. So yes, it will be ok IF we are truly doing God’s will. This world is ruled by the prince of this world. God being the good Father He is, gave us countless denominations to choose from to deal with the ‘prince of this world’? Do you really think He would make it that hard when something like oh - salvation of our souls - is at stake?
• There is only one truth. - Clean this up a bit and capitalize and you got it. Truth - there is only one Truth. His name is Jesus. Just like there is only one Way. And one Life. But countless churches. Odd.
• The true church is a spiritual one. - Yes - but also visible. Battle worn and repentant humans need to see where God built it. Just like in the Old Testament God gave explicit details in building the Temple. The altar of sacrifice was built according to the Father’s blueprint. Does God change? Why would a good Father change it up and get all generic and leave man to the wolves while this repentant soul blindly searches for a ‘spiritual’ church? A better definition of the True Church - One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic.
• It is made of the people who obey God. They are the one’s that love. - The Church is made of sinners trying to obey God realizing they need Jesus and through their study, has found that the fullness of Truth is in the Catholic Church instituted by this Jesus Himself. True love for another is doing everything a person can to get their brothers and sisters to heaven.
• It does not matter if they are in different denominations. There is always a unity with people who love. - Yes it does matter or the High Priestly Prayer of God Himself, Christ - in John 17 - was all prayed in vain. God is Love. Perfect Love. In the Trinity - the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are 3 different persons loving us with One Love. The Love of God. The unity is found in how we come to know God, love God, and serve God - in COMMunion with one another. The unity Christ prayed for so that the world may know that the Father sent Him. How well has this multi headed church done in letting the world know that the Father sent Christ? Wanna take the world by storm and change it forever? We should try assisting God the Father in answering His Son’s prayer in John 17.
• Lots of denominations is good - Then why did Christ pray for one? Why did St. Paul say to be of one mind? There was only one denomination in St. Paul’s time. He preached oneness of mind in his day to prevent Luthers, Zwinglis, Calvins, from dividing the fledgling Church that existed then. This oneness lasted for 1500 years until someone thought it was a good to have lots of denominations. That someone was the devil inspiring men in the Church to divide it because of the evil actions of a few within the Church.
• If gives people more of a choice on how they want to serve God and find God. - Kind of flies in the face of Jesus being the one Way, one Truth, and one Life. God the Father is logical and would only give one Church for his children to serve and find Him. He knows we have it hard enough down here in this world we are called to be in but not of. I think any earthly father would make it simpler when it comes to matters of life or death.
• It is a strengthening of Christianity. No - it’s a weakening of Christianity - divisions in God’s family weakens the Roman Catholic Church and all Protestant churches. The ‘world’ does NOT clearly know that the Father sent Christ clearly because it has been weakened by division.
• There is no need for concern. - Yes there is. I am concerned that we are breaking Our Father’s heart. You think God the Father wants to see His family all divided? What good father on earth would hold a Sunday dinner and really want to see his children all eating at different tables because they couldn’t get along? The Father in Heaven is not just a good father. He’s perfect. And we waste time and break His perfect heart because of obstinancy, pig-headed-ness, and stubborness. He really does want us to be one. Christ prayed for it - did I mention John 17?
• Unity in the Spirit is always there across racial, national, religious and denominational lines. Martin Luther King Jr. - The “I have a dream” speech was written then because he was delusional. We have Republicans and Democrats, Libertarians and Green Party, Communists and Socialists, the list goes on. Religious and denominational lines are countless because of DISunity in the Spirit. The thing that controls this world knows the truth of the saying “strength in numbers”. Therefore, the prince of this world does everything he can to destroy the One Church instituted by the One Christ sent by the One Father for His Children. The prince of this world made some headway around 500 years ago.

Look - it isn’t rocket science. Think of it as if you were a father watching your children divided because they couldn’t get along. You didn’t intend for them to be that way. You wanted them to be a happy family. However, some of them didn’t listen to you well enough. They didn’t do what you said to do or they wouldn’t follow the directions you gave their brother to tell the rest of the family - just because that brother said it. You pray that one day they will all be united. Any good father would.

God bless,
luke1_28

 

[brb2]

Nothing is wrong. Everything is okay and is working along God’s will. There is only one truth. This truth is in us all and we all know it and can follow it if we wish. The true church is a spiritual one. It is made of the people who obey God. They are the one’s that love. It does not matter if they are in different denominations. There is always a unity with people who love. Lots of denominations is good. If gives people more of a choice on how they want to serve God and find God. It is a strengthening of Christianity. There is no need for concern.

.

Sorry …but, keep Seeking the Truth in scriptures and read some early Christian history, and hopefully you will find the Catholic Church.

Right now, you could easily be Mormon, JW, Islamic, Jewish, Buddist, Loadicean, etc.
Secularism is not what Christ and the Apostolic Church taught.

 

[TLM08]

Statistics show the number of Protestant secs at well in excess of 30,000!

I am befuddled, confused, bewildered how this can be a fact [a rapidly growing fact] and yet it does not seem to register with non-Catholics that something is obviously wrong.

I am very sincere in not being able to comprehend the lack of concern that seems to indicate that this is fine, it’s somehow God’s Will. There can only be ONE truth on any particular issue. So how can this be:shrug:

I do not mean this as a disparagement of any type. I simply am confounded that this does not raise a “red flag” and questions? Can you enlighten me?

I have been faithfully answeing your questions for more more than a year. Help me out here

Love and prayers,
Pat

That number of denominations is large. But 30,000 is likely just as inflated as the 100,000,000 christians tortured and killed on the orders of catholic church authorities during the inquisition.

While the Catholic Church is the largest. The number of protestant denominations, does not prove that the catholic church is correct.