Protestants, how can this be possible?

[jmcrae]

It is possible for all to be correct. God is true. God does not lie.

Right. But God isn’t the little voice in your head. The little voice in your head is you.

God says that the Eucharist is the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ. Whoever says differently is not hearing God - they are only hearing their own personal opinions, or the personal opinions of another person.

If each follows the truth then they are all correct

.

Of course. The problem is that only a maximum of one out of the five is actually following the truth. The rest of them are following what they think is the truth, but they are deceived.

Things can be totally contradictory and that is good and fine.

Would you want the person who is building your house to think like that? Maybe he would think that it is okay to put the roof in the basement. “God” told him to, so who can contradict him? The city building codes? Nah - those are merely the laws of man. Just because it doesn’t keep the rain out of your living room doesn’t mean it’s “wrong.”

The interpretation of the Eucharist is an excellent example. God guides us each as to how it is to be understood. Contradictions are okay as the ultimate purpose is love.

It is not “love” to leave someone in the darkness of a false interpretation.

 

[jmcrae]

Let us do an example. 5 people of the Holy Spirit get together to make a decision. Each is going to buy a car for his or her family.

1. Number one was in a car accident when he was young and lost his mom. In buying a car for his family he picks the one with the safest ratings. He does not care about the other factors so much.
2. He is an environmentalist. He studies lickens in the north. With the Holy Spirit he is guided to the most environmental friendly car.
3. He wants his money to go far for his family. He buys the most inexpensive car with the guidence of the Holy Ghost.
4. He is concerned that he may have to buy something big so he goes for the hatch back model. The Holy Ghost guides him in getting the car for his family.
5. This man does not want his car breaking down so witht he holy Ghost he buys the most reliable.

All 5 men caring for their families in the Holy Ghost buy the best car for them. Their decisions are contradictory but they are all in the Spirit and all correctly lead by the Spirit.

Christ didn’t teach the Apostles anything about buying cars, so whatever car you buy (as long as it isn’t stolen) is fine. The Holy Spirit doesn’t get involved with buying cars. Also, there is no contradiction in five different men buying five different cars. Where you would run into trouble is if all five of them were pitching in to buy one car for the five of them to share. Then, they would have to come to a consensus about which features are the most important.

Christ established only one Church, and it has only one actual set of features, whatever someone might wish to the contrary.

We are talking here about the truths of Christ.

 

[PJM]

=Seeker100;5698382]Some opinions are truthful and some opinions are not.

Indeed But there"can’t be your truth and my truth or there would be no truth."

God Himself ordained that all TRUTH on [only] matters of Faith and Morals reside within in the confines and HS Guided Wisdom of His One CC." Amen:thumbsup:

 

[luke1_28]

The ultimate truth is Love. Reaching the ultimate truth can be contradictory. Thus many things can be contradictory but still 100% true as love is what it is all about. The examples that you have given above are excellent examples of this.

I bet Eve thought when she bit that apple that it was a ‘gray’ matter. She loved apples and came to the truth that it was OK to take a bite. She listened to her conscience, justified her actions, and then all hell broke loose. Why? Well, guess who influenced her conscience.

I’m sorry and don’t mean to offend but your ‘views’ smack of free spirit hippy philosophy - perhaps with some elements of Buddhist/Hindu thrown in. This voice of God - we do have - if not guided by someone who’s been called by God to teach and qualified by years of study of philosophy, theology, religion, scripture, etc., this unchecked voice of God can guide someone to do some pretty atrocious things. There are serial killers who thought God spoke to them, and the pro-life activist who kills an abortion provider, WTC bombing planners, etc…all had consciences they listened to. These are extremes to validate that just because someone’s conscience says something doesn’t mean they are from God.

More commonly, the devil works much more patiently to distort the Truth and is more subtle with consciences. . Or have you discounted the devil in your equation? The devil is a higher being - pure spirit - and more intelligent than human beings. It knows your weaknesses better than you do. So, let’s not forget that we are subject to spiritual warfare. Christ Himself was, and since to live like Christ is to die like Christ, we must not expect any preferential treatment as the child of God. As long as we are IN this world we are subject to attack at any time.

Our Father would not leave us that abandoned and alone in this world with evil forces that want to do battle with His children. From the Old Testament - God guided His children whether it be directly, or in scripture or tradition. Christ changed it not - He did not abolish the Law - but perfected it by fulfilling it. God is a Father who cares for His children and does so by providing the Church through His Son Jesus Christ. Christ provides teachers of the Truth of God through this Church in His Apostles. Through Apostolic Succession, we are guaranteed that when matters of faith and morals are taught, we have the Magisterium and the Holy Father to fall back on.

In the Old Testament, God knew He had to get concrete with His children because they would let their minds take them away from the Truth so He left them stone tablets. He knew they would wander off theologically and provided them a Temple with rabbis to teach them so they could find their way back to the revealed Truth they knew then.

To fulfill the Law - Christ instituted a CHURCH. So when people would develop some goop they said was inspired by Scripture or voices, the Church could make a judgement on it and judge it worthy of believe or condemn this belief and save them from hell. Otherwise, it becomes anarchy. God is orderly. Hell is chaos.

He did not leave them to fend for themselves like you say He does. The voice of God within can be twisted and turned by evil forces much smarter than we. The ‘Spirit’ of God you say you have when you read the Word of God can cause you to interpret the same passage another is reading and have an entirely different view - because they have the ‘Spirit’ too. Our Father cares for His children better than that!

It’s ridiculous to think that God Our Father is negligent and abuses His children like that…keeping every individual guessing or ‘knowing’ if their way is right or not. Laughable really even more so to say everyone is right. What good is there to believe in Heaven or hell then? The lyrics from Imagine by John Lennon comes to mind.

There aren’t ‘many rights’ in interpreting. There is only One Way, One Truth, and One Life. Therefore there is logically only one Church to teach this One Way, One Truth, and One Life. Christ was one person - He didn’t conform to satisfy the inner voices of those that His teachings made uncomfortable. Neither has His Church, thank God.

…or the devil would have won…

“The gates of hell will not prevail against it.”

God bless,
luke1_28

 

[Seeker100]

Right. But God isn’t the little voice in your head. The little voice in your head is you.

God says that the Eucharist is the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ. Whoever says differently is not hearing God - they are only hearing their own personal opinions, or the personal opinions of another person.

.

Of course. The problem is that only a maximum of one out of the five is actually following the truth. The rest of them are following what they think is the truth, but they are deceived.

Would you want the person who is building your house to think like that? Maybe he would think that it is okay to put the roof in the basement. “God” told him to, so who can contradict him? The city building codes? Nah - those are merely the laws of man. Just because it doesn’t keep the rain out of your living room doesn’t mean it’s “wrong.”

It is not “love” to leave someone in the darkness of a false interpretation.

No. God’s voice in your heart is not you. It is God. To deny this is rebellion against God. This voice either leads you or condemns you.

 

[Seeker100]

Christ didn’t teach the Apostles anything about buying cars, so whatever car you buy (as long as it isn’t stolen) is fine. The Holy Spirit doesn’t get involved with buying cars. Also, there is no contradiction in five different men buying five different cars. Where you would run into trouble is if all five of them were pitching in to buy one car for the five of them to share. Then, they would have to come to a consensus about which features are the most important.

Christ established only one Church, and it has only one actual set of features, whatever someone might wish to the contrary.

We are talking here about the truths of Christ.

God did not teach us about cars in the past but He teaches us about cars now.

 

[Seeker100]

Indeed But there"can’t be your truth and my truth or there would be no truth."

God Himself ordained that all TRUTH on [only] matters of Faith and Morals reside within in the confines and HS Guided Wisdom of His One CC." Amen:thumbsup:

God is Truth. He does not lie.

 

[Seeker100]

I bet Eve thought when she bit that apple that it was a ‘gray’ matter. She loved apples and came to the truth that it was OK to take a bite. She listened to her conscience, justified her actions, and then all hell broke loose. Why? Well, guess who influenced her conscience.

I’m sorry and don’t mean to offend but your ‘views’ smack of free spirit hippy philosophy - perhaps with some elements of Buddhist/Hindu thrown in. This voice of God - we do have - if not guided by someone who’s been called by God to teach and qualified by years of study of philosophy, theology, religion, scripture, etc., this unchecked voice of God can guide someone to do some pretty atrocious things. There are serial killers who thought God spoke to them, and the pro-life activist who kills an abortion provider, WTC bombing planners, etc…all had consciences they listened to. These are extremes to validate that just because someone’s conscience says something doesn’t mean they are from God.

More commonly, the devil works much more patiently to distort the Truth and is more subtle with consciences. . Or have you discounted the devil in your equation? The devil is a higher being - pure spirit - and more intelligent than human beings. It knows your weaknesses better than you do. So, let’s not forget that we are subject to spiritual warfare. Christ Himself was, and since to live like Christ is to die like Christ, we must not expect any preferential treatment as the child of God. As long as we are IN this world we are subject to attack at any time.

Our Father would not leave us that abandoned and alone in this world with evil forces that want to do battle with His children. From the Old Testament - God guided His children whether it be directly, or in scripture or tradition. Christ changed it not - He did not abolish the Law - but perfected it by fulfilling it. God is a Father who cares for His children and does so by providing the Church through His Son Jesus Christ. Christ provides teachers of the Truth of God through this Church in His Apostles. Through Apostolic Succession, we are guaranteed that when matters of faith and morals are taught, we have the Magisterium and the Holy Father to fall back on.

In the Old Testament, God knew He had to get concrete with His children because they would let their minds take them away from the Truth so He left them stone tablets. He knew they would wander off theologically and provided them a Temple with rabbis to teach them so they could find their way back to the revealed Truth they knew then.

To fulfill the Law - Christ instituted a CHURCH. So when people would develop some goop they said was inspired by Scripture or voices, the Church could make a judgement on it and judge it worthy of believe or condemn this belief and save them from hell. Otherwise, it becomes anarchy. God is orderly. Hell is chaos.

He did not leave them to fend for themselves like you say He does. The voice of God within can be twisted and turned by evil forces much smarter than we. The ‘Spirit’ of God you say you have when you read the Word of God can cause you to interpret the same passage another is reading and have an entirely different view - because they have the ‘Spirit’ too. Our Father cares for His children better than that!

It’s ridiculous to think that God Our Father is negligent and abuses His children like that…keeping every individual guessing or ‘knowing’ if their way is right or not. Laughable really even more so to say everyone is right. What good is there to believe in Heaven or hell then? The lyrics from Imagine by John Lennon comes to mind.

There aren’t ‘many rights’ in interpreting. There is only One Way, One Truth, and One Life. Therefore there is logically only one Church to teach this One Way, One Truth, and One Life. Christ was one person - He didn’t conform to satisfy the inner voices of those that His teachings made uncomfortable. Neither has His Church, thank God.

…or the devil would have won…

“The gates of hell will not prevail against it.”

God bless,
luke1_28

You are saying that the people who do wrong are following God’s voice. This is not true.

As to life, He who does the will of God lives. He who is of God loves. He who is not of God does not love. As Jesus says, “My sheep hear my voice”.

 

[jmcrae]

God did not teach us about cars in the past but He teaches us about cars now.

No, He doesn’t. The revelation of God ended at the death of St. John, in about 95 AD or so. God has revealed nothing since then; He has given His Church the task of promulgating His teachings.

Any information you are “hearing” in your mind’s ear about cars is coming from books you’ve read, TV shows and movies that you’ve watched, various forms of advertising, and your own personal opinions.

God is not talking to you about cars.

 

[Seeker100]

No, He doesn’t. The revelation of God ended at the death of St. John, in about 95 AD or so. God has revealed nothing since then; He has given His Church the task of promulgating His teachings.

Any information you are “hearing” in your mind’s ear about cars is coming from books you’ve read, TV shows and movies that you’ve watched, various forms of advertising, and your own personal opinions.

God is not talking to you about cars.

The revelation of God happens to every person at every second of every day. Whether one listens to this revelation is a person’s choice.

 

[jmcrae]

The revelation of God happens to every person at every second of every day. Whether one listens to this revelation is a person’s choice.

So, everyone is a Prophet of God? Regardless of how off-the-wall his or her theology is?

Even in Old Testament times, God only appointed one Prophet at a time, and it was only in preparation for the coming of Christ. The era of the Prophets ended when St. John the Baptist died, which was at the same time as the beginning of Jesus’ public ministry, and all new revelation ceased at the death of St. John the Apostle. (That’s why we don’t include books in the Bible that were written any later than that.)

 

[PJM]

=Seeker100;5699000]God is Truth. He does not lie.

***How wounderful, a convert:thumbsup:

So you agree:

Christ founded only one Church that we know today as the CC?

You agree with the Authority of the CC to be the lone translator of the Bible?

You believe that the bible came from the CC?

You believe in Primacy of Peter?

You beleive in the Real presence of Jesus in Catholic Eucharist

You believe in all Seven of the Sacraments because they were instituted by Christ?

You believe that the Marian Dogma’s are true?

You believe that Salvation is a FREE gift from God, that requires cooperation on our part through Faith and Works? Because that is Gods mysterious plan for us.***

Shall I continue? All f these are true, all of them are Biblically supported, so either you really do believe these things, or you don’t [can’t] believe in God. Why? Because God affirms each and every one of these truths in his bible.

Welcome home friend

Love and prayers,

 

[Bill_Pick]

The revelation of God happens to every person at every second of every day. Whether one listens to this revelation is a person’s choice.

If you lock three protstants in a room and said to them read the chapter of John or Mark or what ever and then unlock the doors you will have 4 interpretation all being diff

 

[Seeker100]

So, everyone is a Prophet of God? Regardless of how off-the-wall his or her theology is?

Even in Old Testament times, God only appointed one Prophet at a time, and it was only in preparation for the coming of Christ. The era of the Prophets ended when St. John the Baptist died, which was at the same time as the beginning of Jesus’ public ministry, and all new revelation ceased at the death of St. John the Apostle. (That’s why we don’t include books in the Bible that were written any later than that.)

Prophet?? Who said anything that we are talking about prophets? Very few are prophets. Very very few. What we are talking about has nothing at all to do with prophets. We are talking about God leading people. We are about God revealing Himself to all mankind.

 

[Seeker100]

***How wounderful, a convert:thumbsup:

So you agree:

Christ founded only one Church that we know today as the CC?

You agree with the Authority of the CC to be the lone translator of the Bible?

You believe that the bible came from the CC?

You believe in Primacy of Peter?

You beleive in the Real presence of Jesus in Catholic Eucharist

You believe in all Seven of the Sacraments because they were instituted by Christ?

You believe that the Marian Dogma’s are true?

You believe that Salvation is a FREE gift from God, that requires cooperation on our part through Faith and Works? Because that is Gods mysterious plan for us.***

Shall I continue? All f these are true, all of them are Biblically supported, so either you really do believe these things, or you don’t [can’t] believe in God. Why? Because God affirms each and every one of these truths in his bible.

Welcome home friend

Love and prayers,

Is this what God says?

 

[Seeker100]

If you lock three protstants in a room and said to them read the chapter of John or Mark or what ever and then unlock the doors you will have 4 interpretation all being diff

Perhaps that is a good thing.

 

[jmcrae]

Prophet?? Who said anything that we are talking about prophets?

You did. You said that God speaks privately to everyone. The definition of a Prophet is, someone to whom God reveals Himself privately.

We are about God revealing Himself to all mankind.

God reveals Himself through One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church; not (typically) through private locutions (voices in the mind, or visions, etc.). If God is locuting to someone - if someone is hearing voices in their head, and it turns out that it really is the voice of God - then the reason for it is to bring him or her into the Church, so that they can more fully know His teachings.

God would not contradict Himself by locuting different things to different people, either.

 

[jmcrae]

Is this what God says?

Yes.

(We know it is God’s teaching, because it is the teaching of His Church.)

 

[Seeker100]

You did. You said that God speaks privately to everyone. The definition of a Prophet is, someone to whom God reveals Himself privately.

God reveals Himself through One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church; not (typically) through private locutions (voices in the mind, or visions, etc.). If God is locuting to someone - if someone is hearing voices in their head, and it turns out that it really is the voice of God - then the reason for it is to bring him or her into the Church, so that they can more fully know His teachings.

God would not contradict Himself by locuting different things to different people, either.

Okay I stand corrected. We will use your definition of a prophet. I guess there was not enough room in the RC church for all the prophets so they had to go to other ones.

 

[Seeker100]

Yes.

(We know it is God’s teaching, because it is the teaching of His Church.)

Then you should follow it.