Protestants: how do you know that your interpretation of the Bible is the right one?

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josie L:
Are we too free ourselves of sin, are we not to be sanctified through our faith?
The justified are freed from slavery to sin, and they are freed from the guilt of sin under the law, and yes, we are to be sanctified, but you say that justification and sanctification are synonymous; I don’t.
josie L:
No I am not.
Then explain the entire passage.
josie L:
And how do we know whose names are written in the book of life, did you take a look at it?
I’ve repented of my unbelief, and trust in Christ completely, and I cannot do that without the the Spirit’s indwelling (1 Cor 12:3).
josie L:
And another way of saying impure believers.
Read the passage Josie:**and nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it…**Those are not believers, but “in-the-flesh” unbelievers, and those cannot please God (Rom 8:6-8).
josie L:
No it is not based on Christ’s righteousness, otherwise we are justified by his perfection alone and not by our faith working in love.
It’s Christ’s righteousness by which men are saved, and not their own, working in love, or otherwise.

Many in the day will plead their works as their justification, and will be turned away by Christ who declares He never them knew them.
 
To Howie

Just as God has remained faithful to undeserving Israel, so will He be faithful to undeserving believing sinners. God will never annul His promise or cast out those who have come to Him through Christ (Jn 6:37; 17:2).

Yes, God will always be faithful and we will always be undeserving of His goodness because while we were in sin He gave the gift of salvation. Through one man sin entered into the world and we inherited that sin and were separated from God. It is this sin that we could not be cleansed of unless another Adam were to come and live a sinless life and offer His blood to pay for mankinds redemption. This is the sin that is payed for that allows us to be in relationship with God once more. If we had lived a sinless life, this sin would still separate us from God, which is why a second Adam was necessary. Anybody is allowed to partake in this gift. As you know God’s desire is that NONE perish but have everlasting life. It does not ever say that because God desires it, it will be done. The opposite in fact is spoken because all of our existance hangs on our decisions as free moral agents.

If we are not free to choose, choices would not be presented. But choices have been presented all over the Bible. Everything God offers comes with a condition. It’s a divine law. Grace has it’s conditions, salvation, justification, sanctification, all have conditions. All of nature operates under the same law as it should. Everything is dependant upon the actions of something in the natural and the spiritual. The coexist together. To take away this law that is widespread throughout the bible, is like taking away the effects of gravity. When you throw the rock up, it falls down.

When you disobey God, there are consequences. It has nothing to do with grace as it has to do with a divine law preordained and set into place before the foundation of the world.

You cannot say you believe and not obey. The bible says your a liar if you do say this and do not obey. Obeidience alone cannot save you. Faith alone cannot save you. You well know that it is faith accompanied with works that demonstrates salvation in it’s entirety.

God is not a respector of persons. We are also children of God. What applies to Israel applies to us in respect to God’s laws of salvation though they were delivered at different times and in different ways, the underlying law is the same. Faith with obedience. You CANNOT have one without the other or else your faith is DEAD. None existant, null and void. Faith is believing, and if your belief is dead, it doesn’t exist, THEREFORE…you can say your saved all day long, but unless you produce fruit in keeping with your claim, you are a liar and the truth is not in you.

God does not lose you, you lose God. God loses no one for He is always faithful and never changing. We, however are not. Nobody can take us from God’s hand. But God does not hold us beyond our wills either.

God’s promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and be guaranteed to those who have faith (Rom 4:16).

Yes God’s promise comes by faith, and it is guaranteed to those who ACCEPT JESUS. To accept Him is not just a verbal contract but a contract of obedience.

Justification is assured when one believes.

This is only true for those who believe. And the Word of God clearly demonstrates that those who believe or have ‘faith’ also have works that reflect that faith. If you do not, your faith, your belief is a lie. So yes, only those that ‘believe unto repentance’ are truly justified. The rest honor God with their lips but their hearts are far from Him. These profess to be His children but in fact these will be told, ‘depart from me, I never knew you’.

Those who think justification can be earned or maintained by human faithfulness nullify God’s grace and His promise of eternal security.

Justification is a result of obedience unto faith. I’m not sure what your not understanding. We cannot be justified by works alone. But our faith with our works is what justifies us. As is given the example in

Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Jas 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
Jas 2:23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Jas 2:25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Anyone who counts on attaining and preserving justification can have no assurance.

This is simply not true. I have assurance that if I remain faithful to God and follow Him, that I am saved. My assurance is firm. I know that He WILL DO exactly as He promises to those WHO OBEY and to those WHO DO NOT.

Which is why there is a hell.
:clapping: :clapping: :clapping:
 
To Howie

This is one of the things I found on the site…

The real debate is, On what basis does God predestine? We know that he predestines, but why does he predestine, and what is the basis for his choices?

Many Christians believe that God knows in advance what people are going to do, what choices they’re going to make, and what activities they’re going to be involved in. As he looks through the corridor of time and knows what choices you will make, for example, he knows that you will hear the gospel. He knows whether you will say yes or no. If he knows that you are going to say yes, then he chooses you for salvation on the basis of his prior knowledge.

I don’t hold that position.

I think

that God does this sovereignly, not arbitrarily, not whimsically.

The only basis I see for predestination in the Bible

is the good pleasure of his own will.

The only other reason is to honor his only begotten Son.

The reason for his selection is not in me and not in you and not in some foreseen good or evil, but in his own sovereignty.

thus concludes his OPINION.

Where is the scriptural evidence for ‘why’ God predestines?

If I were to believe the first idea, it would be in stark contrast to the second.

The first one seems to support the fair and just God of the Bible, the second a selfish God.

I might want to ask, why go through ‘the great test’ if He is simply going to make us believe in the end? Howie?

I don’t see much scripture here for an entire doctrine to be created over.
 
josie L:
Just as God has remained faithful to undeserving Israel, so will He be faithful to undeserving believing sinners. God will never annul His promise or cast out those who have come to Him through Christ (Jn 6:37; 17:2).

Yes, God will always be faithful and we will always be undeserving of His goodness because while we were in sin He gave the gift of salvation. Through one man sin entered into the world and we inherited that sin and were separated from God. It is this sin that we could not be cleansed of unless another Adam were to come and live a sinless life and offer His blood to pay for mankinds redemption. This is the sin that is payed for that allows us to be in relationship with God once more. If we had lived a sinless life, this sin would still separate us from God, which is why a second Adam was necessary. Anybody is allowed to partake in this gift. As you know God’s desire is that NONE perish but have everlasting life. It does not ever say that because God desires it, it will be done. The opposite in fact is spoken because all of our existance hangs on our decisions as free moral agents.

If we are not free to choose, choices would not be presented. But choices have been presented all over the Bible. Everything God offers comes with a condition. It’s a divine law. Grace has it’s conditions, salvation, justification, sanctification, all have conditions. All of nature operates under the same law as it should. Everything is dependant upon the actions of something in the natural and the spiritual. The coexist together. To take away this law that is widespread throughout the bible, is like taking away the effects of gravity. When you throw the rock up, it falls down.

When you disobey God, there are consequences. It has nothing to do with grace as it has to do with a divine law preordained and set into place before the foundation of the world.

You cannot say you believe and not obey. The bible says your a liar if you do say this and do not obey. Obeidience alone cannot save you. Faith alone cannot save you. You well know that it is faith accompanied with works that demonstrates salvation in it’s entirety.

God is not a respector of persons. We are also children of God. What applies to Israel applies to us in respect to God’s laws of salvation though they were delivered at different times and in different ways, the underlying law is the same. Faith with obedience. You CANNOT have one without the other or else your faith is DEAD. None existant, null and void. Faith is believing, and if your belief is dead, it doesn’t exist, THEREFORE…you can say your saved all day long, but unless you produce fruit in keeping with your claim, you are a liar and the truth is not in you.

God does not lose you, you lose God. God loses no one for He is always faithful and never changing. We, however are not. Nobody can take us from God’s hand. But God does not hold us beyond our wills either.

God’s promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and be guaranteed to those who have faith (Rom 4:16).

Yes God’s promise comes by faith, and it is guaranteed to those who ACCEPT JESUS. To accept Him is not just a verbal contract but a contract of obedience.

Justification is assured when one believes.

This is only true for those who believe. And the Word of God clearly demonstrates that those who believe or have ‘faith’ also have works that reflect that faith. If you do not, your faith, your belief is a lie. So yes, only those that ‘believe unto repentance’ are truly justified. The rest honor God with their lips but their hearts are far from Him. These profess to be His children but in fact these will be told, ‘depart from me, I never knew you’.

Those who think justification can be earned or maintained by human faithfulness nullify God’s grace and His promise of eternal security.

Justification is a result of obedience unto faith. I’m not sure what your not understanding. We cannot be justified by works alone. But our faith with our works is what justifies us. As is given the example in

Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Jas 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
Jas 2:23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Jas 2:25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Anyone who counts on attaining and preserving justification can have no assurance.

This is simply not true. I have assurance that if I remain faithful to God and follow Him, that I am saved. My assurance is firm. I know that He WILL DO exactly as He promises to those WHO OBEY and to those WHO DO NOT.

Which is why there is a hell.
You cherry pick scripture with no explanations, and you do the same with posts on this thread.

Well, at least you’re consistent. 🙂
 
** Howie:**

So you believe God created a hell for fallen angels, and men who refused to choose God?

But I thought your doctrine believed that God chooses who will be saved before men are born and that it has nothing to do with what we want or don’t want but what He wants.

If this is the case, your saying He created people specifically to enjoy Hell? Because according to the information on your doctrine, there is nothing they can do to get out of going if God didn’t pick them for Heaven.
 
To Jerry:

you said:

i am justified my friend and so are you if you put your faith in Christ.

I was wondering how that could work if God has chosen who will be saved before the foundation of the world and we have no part in this decision. So why offer me salvation if you or me are not the ones to decide if I will be saved but God?
 
Howie:

why does God test? why does God try? why should He if He is going to make them obey?

why even call? why offer salvation to all as though it were meant for all?

Why should God say, it is my will that none perish but all have eternal life when He knows beforehand that He will only choose (by His good pleasure for obscure reasons) who will be saved anyway?

It isn’t making sense.
 
Then, please enlighten me . . . if you can.:rolleyes:
What I meant, elvisman is I don’t make those kind of judgments, viz, whether or not one is saved based upon what I believe.

However, I’m certain that the Kingdom will not be populated by Catholics, or by Protestants, but by believers, called by God.
 
The justified are freed from slavery to sin, and they are freed from the guilt of sin under the law, and yes, we are to be sanctified, but you say that justification and sanctification are synonymous; I don’t.

But if justification by faith entails obedience, then we are being sanctified by living out our faith as God intended. I am not confusing the two, I just believe they are not mutually exclusive.

I’ve repented of my unbelief, and trust in Christ completely, and I cannot do that without the the Spirit’s indwelling (1 Cor 12:3).

“Even the devils believe that”, do you claim that they have the Spirit’s indwelling as well?

Read the passage Josie:**and nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it…**Those are not believers, but “in-the-flesh” unbelievers, and those cannot please God (Rom 8:6-8).

Howie, unclean means unclean stop making it complicated. Maybe an example of what I mean will help, let’s say I die tomorrow with some vestiges of sin remaining within me, would I be able to enter Heaven if I am still “unclean” (whether that is a little or a lot does not matter), as no unclean thing can enter it. Would I not have to go through some purification process before entering Heaven?.

It’s Christ’s righteousness by which men are saved, and not their own, working in love, or otherwise.

Christ’s righteousness does saves us, but only if we infuse ourselves with that righteousness so that we too become like Christ, that is what faith working in love essentially means.

Many in the day will plead their works as their justification, and will be turned away by Christ who declares He never them knew them.
I do what I do not because I am trying to bamboozle my way into Heaven but because I follow Christ (in word and deed) and wish to love and serve him through others. That my friend is faith working in love, and the difference between his sheep and the goats who proclaim "lord, lord . . . "
 
To Howie:

An illustration which well shows God’s relation with both the saved end the lost is given by H. Johnson, “Here are two hundred men in prison for violation of law. I make Provision for their pardon, so that justice is satisfied and the law vindicated, while yet the prisoners may go free. The prison doors are unbarred, the bolts thrown back, and promise of absolute pardon is made and assurance is given every prisoner that he can now step out a free man. But not a man moves. Suppose now I determine that my provision for their pardon shall not be in vain. So I personally go to one hundred and fifty of these condemned and guilty men, and by a kind of loving violence persuade them to come out. That’s election. But have I kept the other fifty in? The provision for pardon is still sufficient, the prison doors are still unbarred, the gates of their cells are still unlocked and open, and freedom is promised to everyone who will step out and take it; and every man in that prison knows he can be a free man if he will. Have I kept the other fifty in?” [Pamphlet, The Love of God for Every Man.]

My question is: Why not go to all of them and influence them? If it’s ok to do it to the unworthy 150, what would stop Him from doing it to all? I don’t see the reason explained here for the discrimination.
 
I do what I do not because I am trying to bamboozle my way into Heaven but because I follow Christ (in word and deed) and wish to love and serve him through others. That my friend is faith working in love, and the difference between his sheep and the goats who proclaim "lord, lord . . . "
I see; non-Catholics are trying to “bamboozle” their way into heaven. :rolleyes:
 
To Howie:

Taken from that link you gave:

Unless God’s omniscience is denied we must hold that He knows all truth, past, present, and future; and that while events may appear uncertain from our human view-point, from His view-point they are fixed and certain.

Why would He pretend to not know things in scripture?

Is He just wanting us to believe He does not know? Is that why He goes through the testing and trying of the hearts of men?

Why did He come down to see if Sodom and Gomorrah were as evil as the prayers that came to Him claimed? Did He really know but just said He wanted to come see for Himself?

Why did He go down to see the tower of babel that the men had built? Can He not see it from His throne in Heaven?

Why did it repent Him and grieve Him at His heart that He created mankind on the Earth? Why such a display of shock when He already knew?
 
I would believe in purgatory if the scripture taught it; but it doesn’t. 🤷
Then you might want to read 1 Cor. 3:10-15. A testing of works through fire after death… hm. What could that be? 🤷

Futher reading:
scripturecatholic.com/purgatory.html

A further note: Not all things that are true are found in Scripture. Scripture is the written part of Sacred Tradition, but there is also the Teachings handed on outside of Scripture. Afterall, the early Christians did not have Scripture, and later, the canon, and so fully relied on the guidance of the Teachings handed on by the bishops, the successors to the Apostles. Please consult St. Ignatius (personal disciple of St. John the Apostle) and St. Clement (personal disciple of Sts. Peter and John). It was only later that the Synods of Carthage and Rome fixed the canon to be read in the churches and accepted as canonical, further reinforced at the Council of Trent. But anyway, we’re gettin’ off subject. 🙂
 
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